405 replies to this topic

[snake]

Shryke, on 05 December 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Painting it as a "new cold war" is fucking silly.

The US is simply looking out for it's short and long term interests. That's ... exactly what it's supposed to be doing. This is the very definition of international diplomacy. Our description need go no further.

That's all any nation ever does.  However, it's how they go about doing so that can give people cause for concern and whether or not their actions can lead to conflict.  And people, as well as nations, have every right to be concerned about that.

[Horza]

The Anti-Targ, on 05 December 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Even so, the fact that lots of countries in the region are not happy with what China is trying to do there, the USA is only getting into it because it's China, and the US wantsa to keep China in check. Not because they care much or at all about the territorial rights and claims of little countries.

Philippines population: 92m
New Zealand population: 4.5m

Is the US involved in this issue out of its deep abiding love of democracy, puppies and freedom of the seas? Of course not, they haven't even ratified UNCLoS, unlike China. This is irrelevant. The US has important strategic and economic relationships with all participants in the dispute, including China and thus has significant interests in seeing it resolved without conflict or undue economic harm to any of the participants.

Quote

It's still the cold war, but the nature of the threat is different and the methods of prosecuting the war are different. How does the US feel about the prospect of not being the biggest superpower any more, and worse still the the prospect of the biggest super power being an undemocratic, communist state? Pretty bloody worried if you ask me. I'm sure the US is quite keen to slow that train down, at least unitl China gets to the democratic reforms stage of political evolution. But even so, once China takes over as the world's biggest economy the US ain't never getting it, or it's level of influence as a unipolar power, back, and that's a big loss.

This isn't anything like the Cold War. The Soviets didn't hold two trillion USD and there wasn't half a trillion USD in trade between the two countries. The relationship between the US and China is much more entangled and much less adversarial than the Cold War at its mildest. The idea that China seeks, or is capable of replacing or overshadowing the US also deserves a lot of scrutiny, for reasons I've outlined elsewhere.

Analyses that focus on the SCS dispute as a US-China confrontation neglect the basic fact that what China claims is unacceptable to all other parties to the dispute, not to mention the wider region. The US is being drawn to Asia in part because everyone from longstanding allies to former Chinese clients is looking for a counterweight to China, which still approaches neighbouring countries with a belligerence and paranoia that has driven even the SLORC out of their orbit. One problem with the pivot for the US will be avoiding being used as a foil in disputes of these kinds, precisely because it isn't in the US's interests to isolate China.

Edited by Horza, 05 December 2012 - 10:55 PM.

[Shryke]

snake, on 05 December 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

That's all any nation ever does.  However, it's how they go about doing so that can give people cause for concern and whether or not their actions can lead to conflict.  And people, as well as nations, have every right to be concerned about that.

Sure. Nothing so far seems to merit concern though.

Nor does anything so far indicate any kind of "Cold War" mentality at work here.


This isn't China vs the US. It's the US at work in an issue of international relations that it's got a big stake in.

Edited by Shryke, 05 December 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[Prosesskrift]

If you want good reporting on the South China Sea issue, as well as the territorial struggle going on between Taiwan, Japan and China, I would suggest the Economist. Might be you don't agree with their conclusions - I often dont- but their facts and descriptions are very rarely wrong, and their opinions quite insightful.

I think accusing them of having an anti-Chinese slant would be silly, but people see what they want, Including me I suspect.

[Mr Merdle]

Good news for Senator Lindsey Notlohan Graham:

Quote

South Carolina U.S. Senator Jim DeMint will replace Ed Feulner as president of the Heritage Foundation.

Mr. DeMint will leave his post as South Carolina's junior senator in early January to take control of the Washington think tank, which has an annual budget of about $80 million.

Sen. DeMint's departure means that South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, a Republican, will name a successor, who will have to run in a special election in 2014.

In that year, both Mr. DeMint's replacement and Sen. Lindsey Graham will be running for reelection in South Carolina.

[Oblique]

http://www.huffingto..._n_2250229.html

DeMint leaving early, along with McCaskill....will we see any more coming up soon?

[Inigima]

DeMint apparently had four full years left on his term. I don't necessarily think someone is automatically terrible for resigning early, but: Some states have vacancies filled by gubernatorial appointment, right? Is it possible that some bright spark might come up with the idea of running mutually ideologically acceptable candidates in swing states with their party''s governor in order to win election, then just having them immediately resign and having a much more strongly ideological replacement appointed?

I don't know how many states fill vacancies that way, and of those, how many might be in that kind of situation. Just a thought.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

McCaskill is leaving?

[Oblique]

WrathOfTinyKittens, on 06 December 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

McCaskill is leaving?

Yep. In February. Frees her to vote on tax increases, at the least.

[Frog Eater]

Oblique, on 06 December 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

http://www.huffingto..._n_2250229.html

DeMint leaving early, along with McCaskill....will we see any more coming up soon?

Say hello to Senator Nikki Haley ®South Carolina

(I have no proof of this, it just wont surprise me. I am sure she is huddling with her advisors right now trying to determine how appointing herself will look to voters, she has political aspirations)

[Atreides]

Oblique, on 06 December 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yep. In February. Frees her to vote on tax increases, at the least.

Where did you find this? All I could find was Jo Ann Emerson (R Congresswoman) was leaving in Feb.

[Oblique]

Atreides, on 06 December 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Where did you find this? All I could find was Jo Ann Emerson (R Congresswoman) was leaving in Feb.

Gah! I'm sorry...brain cramp. I meant Emerson. :-(.

[rocksniffer]

Inigima, on 06 December 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

DeMint apparently had four full years left on his term. I don't necessarily think someone is automatically terrible for resigning early, but: Some states have vacancies filled by gubernatorial appointment, right? Is it possible that some bright spark might come up with the idea of running mutually ideologically acceptable candidates in swing states with their party''s governor in order to win election, then just having them immediately resign and having a much more strongly ideological replacement appointed?

i can say this from here in my adopted state, SC, it would be hard for the crazy bitch in the governor's mansion to get further to the right than demint. though i'm sure she will figure a way...just cuz she is crazy...

seriously, i believe he waited til after the election because no one as far to the right as he could realistically get this seat...the republican "old guard" were over him after he refused to support their choices here at the state level and in the national races. his time in this good ole boy club was done...but they probably encouraged him to wait because they feared turn out here in SC would be weak, since the repubs here couldn't have old newt, well they figured they might as well stay home. and since he agreed they signed off on his new post.

Frog Eater, on 06 December 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Say hello to Senator Nikki Haley ®South Carolina

(I have no proof of this, it just wont surprise me. I am sure she is huddling with her advisors right now trying to determine how appointing herself will look to voters, she has political aspirations)

I completely agree this is more likely than some might think...concievably she could resign then her hand-picked LT. gov steps in and names her to job...we have a pool at my local pub that this, in fact, is exactly whats going to happen! i got 200.00 bucks riding on it happening just after "fiscal hang-gliding day" just so she won't have to stain her rep with a vote either way

edited cause my grammar sux...

Edited by rocksniffer, 06 December 2012 - 12:31 PM.

[Frog Eater]

rocksniffer, on 06 December 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

i can say this from here in my adopted state, SC, it would be hard for the crazy bitch in the governor's mansion to get further to the right than demint. though i'm sure she will figure a way...just cuz she is crazy...

seriously, i believe he waited til after the election because no one as far to the right as he could realistically get this seat...the republican "old guard" were over him after he refused to support their choices here at the state level and in the national races. his time in this good ole boy club was done...but they probably encouraged him to wait because they feared turn out here in SC would be weak, since the repubs here couldn't have old newt, well they figured they might as well stay home. and since he agreed they signed off on his new post.




I completely agree this is more likely than some might think...concievably she could resign then her hand-picked LT. gov steps in and names her to job...we have a pool at my local pub that this, in fact, is exactly whats going to happen! i got 200.00 bucks riding on it happening just after "fiscal hang-gliding day" just so she won't have to stain her rep with a vote either way

edited cause my grammar sux...

Is your 200.00 on that she will resign as Gov and then be nominated or that she will nominate herself? I dont see her resigning before nominating herself.

sidenote: where in SC are you? Columbia here.

[Memory Lane]

EDIT: Never mind answered above.

I'm not going to lie - I've completely zoned out all the political hash over the Fiscal Cliff. If a deal gets done, good. If not, then it will be good when that pushes them into a deal.

Edited by Saint Bass, 06 December 2012 - 01:14 PM.

[Shryke]

Michigan Gov. Snyder has decided to use the lame duck session to make Michigan a right-to-work state. They are doing it, like, right now.

Protesters are currently being pepper-sprayed in accordance with state-level governmental procedure.

[Fez]

Shryke, on 06 December 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Michigan Gov. Snyder has decided to use the lame duck session to make Michigan a right-to-work state. They are doing it, like, right now.

Protesters are currently being pepper-sprayed in accordance with state-level governmental procedure.

Yeah, they're scum.  Wasn't also some bill that would apparently completely dismantle the K-12 public education system?  I remember reading last week about all these Republican superintendents panicking about their party stabbing them in the back.

[Oblique]

http://www.huffingto..._n_2251761.html

Ah, FOX News, always elevating the national discourse.......

[Crazydog7]

This has probably already been linked but it still turns my stomach

http://takingnote.bl...bled-americans/

Keep going GOP Now I’m not even mildly inclined to vote GOP but how could anyone be against this?  I mean someone please explain to the me the thinking behind this?  Other then fuck the UN.  Other then the mention on the board in the last thread I didn’t any coverage of this on any major news network.  The Daily Show commentary on this was hilarious and at least someone mentioned it.

Oh I found some quotes!!!

Fuck all these people

“The question is, who should make critical decisions regarding the care and raising of children who have disabilities? Their parents or United Nations social workers? “There is no need for the CRPD, as our nation’s state and federal laws already protect our precious loved ones with disabilities. It is outrageous that U.S. senators would support a treaty that surrenders U.S. sovereignty and family integrity to unelected UN bureaucrats.”
-J. Michael Smith, President of the Homeschool Legal Defense Association
“Americans should be the ones making laws for America. If improvements are needed to the laws, that already are the leading examples of providing freedom and justice for persons with disabilities, this will open the door for infringing upon our sovereignty by subjecting the United States to foreign, anti-American biases.”
-Penny Young Nance, CEO of Concerned Women for America Legislative Action Committee
“With the admittedly hurried passage of the Affordable Care Act and other similar pieces of legislation we have seen that there are those in Congress who have little problem with passing laws only to find out what’s in them later. But I was not elected to pass as many pieces of legislation as possible. I was elected to pass legislation that directly benefits my constituents in Utah and the people of the United States while protecting their freedoms and unalienable rights as citizens.”
-Sen. Mike Lee, (R-Utah)
“It is not something which the United States needs to sign on to, but there is a great emotional case being made that we need to do this. I think it’s a great opportunity to talk about trans-national law, and how there is an insidious and dedicated movement to attack U.S. sovereignty.”
-Sen. Jon Kyl, (R-Ariz.)

Edited by Crazydog7, 06 December 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[drawkcabi]

Crazydog7, on 06 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

This has probably already been linked but it still turns my stomach

http://takingnote.bl...bled-americans/

Keep going GOP Now I’m not even mildly inclined to vote GOP but how could anyone be against this?  I mean someone please explain to the me the thinking behind this?  Other then fuck the UN.

No, that's it. The Republicans against it like to keep things are that simple.