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Illyrio and the dragon eggs (GoT)


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#1 FacelessDude

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:11 AM

I'm currently re-reading a Game of Thrones and I came up with a theory pertaining to the three dragon eggs that Dany receives from Illyrio.

After finishing aDwD six months ago and learning more about Illyrio's motives (he is most likely a Targaryen supporter) I came to the conclusion that Illyrio purposely gave Dany the dragon eggs to support her rise to power. Illyrio says that the dragon eggs have turned to stone, which basically means that they won't hatch. I think Illyrio gave her the three eggs knowing that they would hatch in the future, therefore strengthening her fight for the Iron Throne and rise to power.

Basically the dragons ensure her taking of the crown and they will help her wipe out the Lannister's and any who oppose the Targaryen's.

Has anyone thought that this may be the case?


#2 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 06:49 AM

Yes, it comes up repeatedly. The Re-read forum is probably the wrong place as the arguments are spread across all five books and concentrate in Dance.

By and large, your theory is unlikely. Illyrio backs Aegon, for him Dany was just a useful sacrifice, as well as Viserys. Remember, he expected them both to die on the Dothraki Sea.
Furthermore, him expecting her to hatch the eggs is pure crackpot, that would need prophetic powers. No reasonable human expected magic to work anymore.

#3 FacelessDude

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 02:38 PM

Yes, it comes up repeatedly. The Re-read forum is probably the wrong place as the arguments are spread across all five books and concentrate in Dance.

By and large, your theory is unlikely. Illyrio backs Aegon, for him Dany was just a useful sacrifice, as well as Viserys. Remember, he expected them both to die on the Dothraki Sea.
Furthermore, him expecting her to hatch the eggs is pure crackpot, that would need prophetic powers. No reasonable human expected magic to work anymore.

Well then Illyrio must be pissed that the eggs hatched. Lol.

But Illyrio wouldn't necessarily need prophetic powers to predict that the dragon eggs would hatch. It's just a theory and I doubt that it is the case.

Edited by FacelessDude, 06 December 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#4 Fitzochris

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

The eggs, ironically, we're worth more to Illyrio than any coin he got for marrying Dany off to Drogo.

#5 FacelessDude

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 03:05 PM

The eggs, ironically, we're worth more to Illyrio than any coin he got for marrying Dany off to Drogo.

If I were him in that situation I would be utterly infuriated.

#6 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 05:00 PM

Well then Illyrio must be pissed that the eggs hatched. Lol.

But Illyrio wouldn't necessarily need prophetic powers to predict that the dragon eggs would hatch. It's just a theory and I doubt that it is the case.

Considering that the Targaryens as the royal house of Westeros with access to every scrap of information about dragons inWesteros and near unlimited ressources went to great effort to try and hatch their huuuuge stacks of dragon eggs for more than 150 years, it's somewhat unlikely that an uneducated girl on her own stumbles on the solution by pure chance in just a few years.

#7 The Chequered Raven

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 12:55 PM

By and large, your theory is unlikely. Illyrio backs Aegon, for him Dany was just a useful sacrifice, as well as Viserys. Remember, he expected them both to die on the Dothraki Sea.
Furthermore, him expecting her to hatch the eggs is pure crackpot, that would need prophetic powers. No reasonable human expected magic to work anymore.


Why should he give such valuable Gifts for "just a useful sacrifice"?

We know that they are very valuable.

It is mentioned at their presantation at the Wedding.
Viserys tries to steal them to buy an Army.
And Mormont does not want Dany to burn them on Khal Drogo's Pyre.

I think it's unlikely that Illyrio gives such valuable Stuff away for nothing, even if he not knows that they are able to hatch.

#8 The Chequered Raven

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 01:52 PM

By and large, your theory is unlikely. Illyrio backs Aegon, for him Dany was just a useful sacrifice, as well as Viserys. Remember, he expected them both to die on the Dothraki Sea.
Furthermore, him expecting her to hatch the eggs is pure crackpot, that would need prophetic powers. No reasonable human expected magic to work anymore.


Why should he give such valuable Gifts for "just a useful sacrifice"?

We know that they are very valuable.

It is mentioned at their presantation at the Wedding.
Viserys tries to steal one(!) of them to buy an Army.
And Mormont does not want Dany to burn them on Khal Drogo's Pyre.

I think it's unlikely that Illyrio gives such valuable Stuff away for nothing, even if he not knows that they are able to hatch.

#9 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:03 PM

Why should he give such valuable Gifts for "just a useful sacrifice"?

We know that they are very valuable.

It is mentioned at their presantation at the Wedding.
Viserys tries to steal one(!) of them to buy an Army.
And Mormont does not want Dany to burn them on Khal Drogo's Pyre.

I think it's unlikely that Illyrio gives such valuable Stuff away for nothing, even if he not knows that they are able to hatch.

Because he needs to bait Drogo (and King Bob). A pretty beggar isn't fit for a khal, a pretty Targaryen princess with dragon eggs is.

#10 FacelessDude

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:19 AM

Why should he give such valuable Gifts for "just a useful sacrifice"?

We know that they are very valuable.

It is mentioned at their presantation at the Wedding.
Viserys tries to steal one(!) of them to buy an Army.
And Mormont does not want Dany to burn them on Khal Drogo's Pyre.

I think it's unlikely that Illyrio gives such valuable Stuff away for nothing, even if he not knows that they are able to hatch.

Yea exactly.

I still think Illyrio knew that atleast one dragon egg would hatch, therefore giving Dany some power so she can take the throne.

#11 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 01:31 PM

Yea exactly.

I still think Illyrio knew that atleast one dragon egg would hatch, therefore giving Dany some power so she can take the throne.

How? That's the big question. How could Illyrio predict that "one in a million years event" based on happenstance and luck?

#12 The Chequered Raven

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:57 PM

Because he needs to bait Drogo (and King Bob). A pretty beggar isn't fit for a khal, a pretty Targaryen princess with dragon eggs is.


But why should Drogo fight for Aegon?
For me it's more likely that Illyrio played both cards - Aegon and Dany/ Viserys. If one may fail he has still the other to succeed, and if both survive, Aegon is raised and educated to sit the iron throne, and Dany and/or Viserys bring the Dothraki fighters to support him and his claim.

But I agree with you, it's not likely that he expectet Dany to hatch the eggs. Surely they were a royal gift, worth for a Khaleesi. And, of course, remind her in the end to reward the donor...

Edited by TheDogsOfWar, 19 December 2012 - 04:59 PM.


#13 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:58 PM

But why should Drogo fight for Aegon?
For me it's more likely that Illyrio played both cards - Aegon and Dany/ Viserys. If one may fail he has still the other to succeed, and if both survive, Aegon is raised and educated to sit the iron throne, and Dany and/or Viserys bring the Dothraki fighters to support him and his claim.

But I agree with you, it's not likely that he expectet Dany to hatch the eggs. Surely they were a royal gift, worth for a Khaleesi. And, of course, remind her in the end to reward the donor...

Drogo isn't intended to do. He is intended to cause chaos and wreak havoc in the Seven Kingdoms, slaughtering smallfolk and being a bloodthirsty barbarian leading an army of barbarians. And from the rubble Aegon VI would be born as the great warrior king setting things to right.
Look at Drogo and his Dothraki, could you imagine any Westerosi accept being ruled by him? He's the bogeyman, not the king.
And of course, the Dothraki would lose big time if they invaded Westeros, ceasing to exist as a people. Those that cross the Narrow Sea at least.

#14 The Chequered Raven

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:00 PM

Drogo isn't intended to do. He is intended to cause chaos and wreak havoc in the Seven Kingdoms, slaughtering smallfolk and being a bloodthirsty barbarian leading an army of barbarians. And from the rubble Aegon VI would be born as the great warrior king setting things to right.
Look at Drogo and his Dothraki, could you imagine any Westerosi accept being ruled by him? He's the bogeyman, not the king.
And of course, the Dothraki would lose big time if they invaded Westeros, ceasing to exist as a people. Those that cross the Narrow Sea at least.


Possible, surely the Westerosi would not accept the Dothraki as ruler of the seven kingdoms.
But this would only happen with the Targaryans alive. If Illyrio expects them to die in the dothraki sea - why in seven hells should any Dothraki then cross the narrow sea?

#15 Suzymofo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 12:16 AM

I can't say whether or not Illyrio knew the eggs would hatch, but I do believe he knew they could help Dany in some way. It is stated many times that selling the eggs would be enough to buy her ships and an army to take Westeros. So whether or not he had any insight, I believe Illyrio did mean for the eggs to help Dany win the throne.
I wouldn't say he's a Targ supporter so much as very aware of where his best interests lie. If he were to help Dany take the seven kingdoms, she would owe him a great deal of gratitude.

#16 Bright Blue Eyes

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:42 AM

Possible, surely the Westerosi would not accept the Dothraki as ruler of the seven kingdoms.
But this would only happen with the Targaryans alive. If Illyrio expects them to die in the dothraki sea - why in seven hells should any Dothraki then cross the narrow sea?

Then possible rivals for Aegon are dead without implying him in any way. Win-win.

#17 Mace Cooterian

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 07:48 AM

Yes, it comes up repeatedly. The Re-read forum is probably the wrong place as the arguments are spread across all five books and concentrate in Dance.

By and large, your theory is unlikely. Illyrio backs Aegon, for him Dany was just a useful sacrifice, as well as Viserys. Remember, he expected them both to die on the Dothraki Sea.
Furthermore, him expecting her to hatch the eggs is pure crackpot, that would need prophetic powers. No reasonable human expected magic to work anymore.


Me believes that Bright Blue Eyes has the right on it that Illyrio never expected them to return from the Dothraki Sea.

Another throught crosses my mind that Visery's was the heir apparent to the throne, so regardless of Illyrio's intentions he was really trying to eliminate Visery's. Maybe giving the egg's to Dany was that little bit of an insurance policy so that she would agree to wedding Drogo.

I personnally don't believe that he ever thought the egg's would hatch again, nor did he expect Dany to become, scratch that...he did not expect the dragon waking inside her!!!

#18 Mace Cooterian

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 08:08 AM

Is there any doubt that when King Robert gave the command to have Dany killed; then Vary's little bird flew directly to Illyrio?

If I was Illyrio, I would be praying that Dany gets to Westeros via Asshai. Because if she comes back Westward, he will probably have some answering to do. If you doubt that this is possible, wait till Tyrion gets to Mereen and starts putting two and two together for Dany.

#19 FacelessDude

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 03:53 AM

Is there any doubt that when King Robert gave the command to have Dany killed; then Vary's little bird flew directly to Illyrio?

If I was Illyrio, I would be praying that Dany gets to Westeros via Asshai. Because if she comes back Westward, he will probably have some answering to do. If you doubt that this is possible, wait till Tyrion gets to Mereen and starts putting two and two together for Dany.

I thought Dany and Tyrion were going to meet in aDwD. I can't wait for it in tWoW!

Edited by FacelessDude, 05 August 2013 - 03:53 AM.


#20 aceluby

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:51 AM

Didn't Illyrio tell Viserys to stay w/ him while Dany went to Vaes Dothrak? Why would he do that if he wanted them both dead on the Dothraki sea? Why would he think that Drogo's new wife would die before returning? Isn't the plan to cause havoc in the 7 kingdoms w/ the Dothraki as stated in AGoT? How do you do that with both Dany and Viserys dead?