Felix Gilman's The Rise of Ransom City (Spoilers)

[Caligula_K2]

Everyone is (deservedly) talking about this year's other fantasy western semi-sequel kind of standalone hybrid, but I haven't seen any mention around here of this pretty excellent book.

I'd have to think that the most controversial aspect of this book is its not quite status as a sequel to the Half Made World. Sure, Creedmoor and Liv show up and it looks like the're going to be main characters, and then a quarter of the way through the book they dissapear and we only see Liv again at the very end. In some ways, this feels a bit ridiculous, especially since the Half Made World really dragged out what the General's secret was at the end- well, here it turns out that it's a magical symbol of the First People which erases the spirits of the Guns and Engines completely with no negative consequences. I thought that was slightly lame and anti-climactic, though thankfully the Ransom Process is pretty much introduced in its place, and it is much more interesting.

As the book went on I came to appreciate more and more that Gilman didn't give us the direct sequel. Sure, he's not doing anything extremely original with the "untrustworthy memoir of a morally grey and pretty universally despised major figure," but he does it quite well and Harry Ransom is a sympathetic, funny and pretty relatable character despite his selfishness, dishonesty and arrogance. The novel gets progressively bleaker as it goes along but I found the symbol of Ransom City to be pretty touching. I also have a soft spot for Tesla type eccentric inventor figures, so I was definitely a fan of the parts of the book dealing with that. And as we heard more about Liv's plotline, I became pretty convinced that Gilman had done the right thing and that hers and Creedmoor's story, as it stands now, might have been pretty boring to read about- travellogue to find the magical cure, use of it in a battle, disillusionment with the new Republic, blah. Gilman covered these plots and themes very well in the Half Made World, and I'm glad that I read about Harry Ransom instead. And it does help that Gilman wraps up the major plotlines to the Half Made World fairly well, I think, though I'm slightly dissapointed Creedmoor didn't get a last appearance.

And beyond all that I still love the world he's created. There's something so horrible yet fun about the twisted and literalized world of the west he's created that I can't help but love, and it was interesting to see it from a quite different (more apathetic) perspective. Although I loved A Red Country, I do think that Gilmore gets the feel of a western much more right than Abercrombie, even if Abercrombie tends to include more of the explicit tropes.

There are a couple of flaws here which make me rank it below the Half Made World. I was never really convinced by Adela, and in particular her reasons for shooting Baxter and herself and the revelation that she was lying about everything seemed to come out of absolutely nowhere, unless I just wasn't reading carefully enough. She needed more development there. In the same way I can't say that any of the secondary characters stood out for me, aside from Liv and Creedmoor and maybe Carter- that might be a difficult side effect to avoid when a book is written in the style of a self centred memoir, but hey, other writers have done it, and Gilman is a good enough writer to do it too. I also wish that in the editor's afterword we got more information about how the war fell out, but I understand why the focus there is on Ransom City instead.

Overall though, I found this to be a really wonderful book and both it and the Half Made World are two of the more unique and memorable books I've read in the fantasy genre.

Anyone else read it? What'd you all think?

[RedEyedGhost]

Everyone is (deservedly) talking about this year's other fantasy western semi-sequel kind of standalone hybrid, but I haven't seen any mention around here of this pretty excellent book.

I finished it last night, and I know Eponine, myself, and I think one other person had mentioned it in the Nov. and Dec. reading threads.

I'd have to think that the most controversial aspect of this book is its not quite status as a sequel to the Half Made World. Sure, Creedmoor and Liv show up and it looks like the're going to be main characters, and then a quarter of the way through the book they dissapear and we only see Liv again at the very end. In some ways, this feels a bit ridiculous, especially since the Half Made World really dragged out what the General's secret was at the end- well, here it turns out that it's a magical symbol of the First People which erases the spirits of the Guns and Engines completely with no negative consequences. I thought that was slightly lame and anti-climactic, though thankfully the Ransom Process is pretty much introduced in its place, and it is much more interesting.

As the book went on I came to appreciate more and more that Gilman didn't give us the direct sequel. Sure, he's not doing anything extremely original with the "untrustworthy memoir of a morally grey and pretty universally despised major figure," but he does it quite well and Harry Ransom is a sympathetic, funny and pretty relatable character despite his selfishness, dishonesty and arrogance. The novel gets progressively bleaker as it goes along but I found the symbol of Ransom City to be pretty touching. I also have a soft spot for Tesla type eccentric inventor figures, so I was definitely a fan of the parts of the book dealing with that. And as we heard more about Liv's plotline, I became pretty convinced that Gilman had done the right thing and that hers and Creedmoor's story, as it stands now, might have been pretty boring to read about- travellogue to find the magical cure, use of it in a battle, disillusionment with the new Republic, blah. Gilman covered these plots and themes very well in the Half Made World, and I'm glad that I read about Harry Ransom instead. And it does help that Gilman wraps up the major plotlines to the Half Made World fairly well, I think, though I'm slightly dissapointed Creedmoor didn't get a last appearance.

After finishing tH-MW I was obviously looking forward to a direct sequel, and was a bit disappointed when I read the synopsis for this one. But I really couldn't have been happier with how Gilman handled this book, because of the bolded part above - not that I think Gilman would have made it boring though - that would have just been a much more standard fantasy that we've all read too many times before.

And beyond all that I still love the world he's created. There's something so horrible yet fun about the twisted and literalized world of the west he's created that I can't help but love, and it was interesting to see it from a quite different (more apathetic) perspective. Although I loved A Red Country, I do think that Gilmore gets the feel of a western much more right than Abercrombie, even if Abercrombie tends to include more of the explicit tropes.

I would agree with this - Red Country felt much more like a Fantasy shoehorned into a Western setting. Not that that was a bad thing, because I really enjoyed it.

Creedmore really reminded me of Lamb, and it's not anything I can point out just kind of their general demeanor.

There are a couple of flaws here which make me rank it below the Half Made World. I was never really convinced by Adela, and in particular her reasons for shooting Baxter and herself and the revelation that she was lying about everything seemed to come out of absolutely nowhere, unless I just wasn't reading carefully enough. She needed more development there. In the same way I can't say that any of the secondary characters stood out for me, aside from Liv and Creedmoor and maybe Carter- that might be a difficult side effect to avoid when a book is written in the style of a self centred memoir, but hey, other writers have done it, and Gilman is a good enough writer to do it too. I also wish that in the editor's afterword we got more information about how the war fell out, but I understand why the focus there is on Ransom City instead.

I think both of these are definitely problems related to the story's format. I'm also not so sure that we were supposed to be convinced by Adela - she seemed to good to be true at her introduction, there was also a lot of anger there (Ransom glazed over it quite often, but it was evident in how they would spend little time together because she was occupied with demonstrations, ralleys, &c. :P for both Jasper City and Juniper City), so I definitely understood how she could lash out against the only person available in Baxter. However, I do not feel that the reversal in her character was really necessary, but angry and bitter people often do lie to try and make them feel better about the circumstances in which they find themselves, in my experience. I can also see her breaking down and telling Ransom "the truth" when her life is at its nadir; I just don't think that "truth" was necessary.

First person narratives often are lacking in secondary characters especially when the narrator is as arrogant and self-centered as Ransom, and I'm sure Liv and Creedmore would have felt thin had that not been POV characters in tH-MW.

Overall though, I found this to be a really wonderful book and both it and the Half Made World are two of the more unique and memorable books I've read in the fantasy genre.

Anyone else read it? What'd you all think?

I think I would also rate The Half-Made World slightly above The Rise of Ransom City, but that might change as I get a bit more distance from it.

Have you read Gilman's other books? Overall my order favorites, descending, is Gears of the City, tH-Mw, tRoRC, Thunderer. GotC is simply amazing and is my favorite book so far this year (I'm still kicking myself for the fact that I waited so long to read it).

[Caligula_K2]

I finished it last night, and I know Eponine, myself, and I think one other person had mentioned it in the Nov. and Dec. reading threads.

Have you read Gilman's other books? Overall my order favorites, descending, is Gears of the City, tH-Mw, tRoRC, Thunderer. GotC is simply amazing and is my favorite book so far this year (I'm still kicking myself for the fact that I waited so long to read it).

I haven't! I'll check out Thunderer and Gears of the City then, since it looks like they're a duology. I'll definitely be happy reading more Gilman.

I definitely agree that Liv and Creedmoor would have felt thinner if we hadn't read a whole book about them.

About Adela, I think I agree with you- it was clear she had always had a lot of anger and that she was slightly deranged, and that Ransom was ignoring most of it, but you could attribute that to her having been tortured. I could completely accept that under those circumstances she would become more and more politically active, particularly against the Line. Like you, though, I'm not sure what we gained by learning the truth. She wasn't tortured? Basically Baxter just put her father into debt and her seeking revenge for that accounts for all her goals in the book? I can't say I found that too interesting an explanation.

Also, clearly more people need to read these books. I was under the impression that the Half Made World had sold pretty well, so I was expecting that more people around here would have read it.

[Calibandar]

I've yet to read the second one. I just read Gilman's AMA on Reddit and was interested to find that he thinks Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford a superb film, I love it as well. He says the book is even better.

From what I know about this second book, I am somewhat disappointed beforehand about it not really being a continuation in one way. On the other hand, Gilman's just a good writer, so chances are I will enjoy this one greatly as well, it is mostly the setting which is a real big draw in these books.

Also, from the AMA it seems that this is the final book in this world, a duology then.

[Eponine]

I scrolled down fast to not see spoilers, but I'll be pushing this to the top of the book list and reading fast so I can discuss it.

[RedEyedGhost]

I haven't! I'll check out Thunderer and Gears of the City then, since it looks like they're a duology. I'll definitely be happy reading more Gilman.

Enjoy!

About Adela, I think I agree with you- it was clear she had always had a lot of anger and that she was slightly deranged, and that Ransom was ignoring most of it, but you could attribute that to her having been tortured. I could completely accept that under those circumstances she would become more and more politically active, particularly against the Line. Like you, though, I'm not sure what we gained by learning the truth. She wasn't tortured? Basically Baxter just put her father into debt and her seeking revenge for that accounts for all her goals in the book? I can't say I found that too interesting an explanation.

The more I think about it the less I like it... she did say in the letter that was arrested after the Line took control of Gibson City and knowing about the piano would likely lead to intense questioning. Honor can definitely be a powerful motivator, especially with most of her brothers dying as the family went under. She also says she got caught in her own lies and started to believe them herself. It was just an unnecessary turn.

Also, clearly more people need to read these books. I was under the impression that the Half Made World had sold pretty well, so I was expecting that more people around here would have read it.

We had a pretty good thread (4-6+ pages)on the first book, but it looks like the powers that be felt it was not worthy and culled it. There's a little bit of discussion of the book, both good and bad, in the best of 2010 thread. Hopefully we'll get more people that have read it to show up soon.

[Sci-2]

Reading the first one, enjoying it, will likely get this sequel.

[Eponine]

:wub: I am happy to say that my opinions of Felix Gilman's writing are as high as ever after finishing The Rise of Ransom City.

There were a lot of high points. Probably the low point to me was the attempt at an explanation of how Ransom had discovered/stolen the symbol behind the Process from the Folk (and how presumably Liv and Creedmore had done the same). It's generally a strength of Gilman's, IMO, that he does not feel the need to wrap up every thread explicitly. His unreliable narrator is better than the typical literary device where the narrator always conveniently knows exactly what the author needed to explain what happened to every secondary character. I would have been more satisfied with the Process being left a mystery, with only hints that it was something taken from the Folk.

I didn't find that the secondary characters were less interesting than in tH-MW, except that the Gun was written stronger previously.

I didn't have an issue with Adela (although by the time her "lies" come out, I wasn't very concerned about her motives anymore). I don't necessarily believe her explanation. I think it was a way for her to try to end things with Ransom on a note of finality, but then they both got sucked into depending on each other's correspondence.

It's interesting to me that most of you seem to like tH-MW better. IMO, that was the least interesting of Gilman's books. It had a lot of conventional strengths, but what I particularly love about Thunderer and Gears of the City, that was present in tRoRC in places as well, that isn't found in other books very often, is an extremely immersive sense of chaos, shifting conditions, and uncertainty, but with concrete images. (I think Jeff Vandermeer is good at this too, but Gilman is better). In contrast, I think someone else could have written a good version of tH-MW, but no one else could have written Thunderer.

I was happy to see in an interview that he's finishing up another book.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Just finished and I have to say I liked this book. Maybe I'll need to reread it but right now it doesn't seem like Gilman did any interesting with the unreliable narrator or the novel within a novel within a novel structure.

Did anyone get all the references? I get the Baxter is supposed to be reminiscent of Edison and Ransom, Tesla. I thought Fountainhead Station is a funny, ironic reference, just like Fenimore Island.

[polishgenius]

I've gotta agree with Eponine - I prefer this book to The Half-Made World. That was a beautifully written novel, but rather a still one. This has much more of the energy and vibrancy that characterised the previous duology. Ransom's tumbling thought process was fun, and it was good to get into the madcap invention as well as the directly Western themes which dominated the first one.

I agree that Gilman didn't necessarily do anything startling and clever with the unreliable narrator framework, but I don't think he needed to - sometimes it's just a good way to tell a story, rather than an excuse to show off.

I would have been more satisfied with the Process being left a mystery, with only hints that it was something taken from the Folk.

I think that needed to be explained to a point, because for me the mystery - of the whole world Gilman built here as much as this book on its own - is what the Folk are, how they work and what their motives and motivations are, and knowing that the weapon/Process were theirs fed into that.

On the other hand, I do think the Folk were the weakest aspect of the book - which seems to be a tendency in fantasy Westerns anyway. There were three frontier fantasy Westerns this year - Red Country and The Long Earth being the other two - and all of them did exactly the same thing of conflating American Indians with Elf-type ideas while keeping the pioneer side much more normalised. And to me, rather than making them magical and mysterious, it comes off as a simplistic take apparently uninterested in even the vaguest sense in the complexities of Indian culture. In this particular instance at least there was the implication that there are various factions within them, but it still came off as a thin portrayal.

[Marcus Cicero]

Just finished. I liked it a lot, but I think I enjoyed tHMW more. Ransom is a great character, but the format of the story often meant that dramatic events would self-consciously be brushed over by the narrator, which often made sense, but wasn't necessarily satisfying. For example, the scene where Dark shoots Adela felt kind of emotionless and flat to me, because Ransom recounts the event quickly and without emotive writing.

Also, I did miss Creedmore. I realize that his absence can't be a detractor to the novel's quality, but I was looking forward to more of him. His fate at the end of tHMW was so interesting that I wanted to get back into his head to see the consequences. A direct sequel wouldn't have had to follow John and Liv doing exactly what they do offscreen in tRoRC.

I appreciated that the book subverted the 'off to save the world' aspect of tHMW's ending.

[Eponine]

I think that needed to be explained to a point, because for me the mystery - of the whole world Gilman built here as much as this book on its own - is what the Folk are, how they work and what their motives and motivations are, and knowing that the weapon/Process were theirs fed into that.

On the other hand, I do think the Folk were the weakest aspect of the book - which seems to be a tendency in fantasy Westerns anyway.

I wouldn't have minded getting some more insight into how the Folk work and what their motives are, but I felt that revealing what Ransom did simply made them more magicky rather than either more complex or more understandable. So they have these symbols that can be used in powerful ways... ok... That still didn't reveal anything about their culture or their motives. Especially since Ransom can't decide whether they found him to be a harmless fool, or whether they wanted him to use what he'd been shown for good or for destruction or for incomprehensible reasons of their own. They remain mysterious, which is fine, but now it's mystery with a dose of woo woo thrown in.

[kcf]

And because I'm really late to the game - my thougths on The Half-Made World.

I've been meaning to read Gilman for a while and finally got around to it with The Half-Made World. And appropriately, my review has been slowly fermenting in my head for over 2 months now and has finally been pushed out the tap - excerpt below. In short, I enjoyed it.

In The Half-Made World physical laws don't really exist to same extent as in most second-world fantasy, instead Gilman builds his world based on thematic laws. The world is only half-made, and the world only becomes made when 'Western'-style development occurs, when humans expand their control of the world, and the world is most fully made once control moves from the hardy (and unsophisticated) pioneers of the frontier to the full order of the Line. The world is less made, or even un-made where humans haven't yet penetrated, where the Folk (think indigenous people) exist with their indefinable magic and symbiosis with the land. Opposing the order of the Line is not the disorder of the un-made, but the near-nihilistic (or perhaps anarchistic or libertarian) Order of the Gun.

It's in this worldbuilding that Gilman really shines - yes, this is a wonderfully built world in the sense of second-world fantasy, but it's also thematic building. Gilman makes the worldbuilding so much more than just a setting, but a literary exercise in its own right. And at the same time, he playfully subverts himself - for his fully-realized and built world, is only 'half-made'. The resisting force to order, is the Order of the Gun. This playful use of language to subvert the expected and even what Gilman is attempting to achieve, occurs throughout the book, but is perhaps most recognizable in the first half or so.

Balancing the study on worldbuilding is a study on character, with three focus points, and arguably a fourth. Liv is the equivalent of psychologist focusing on madness who unexpectedly (and irrationally?) journeys west for an opportunity of study. Of course, she is recovering from her own mental illness and has an unrealized addiction to opium. Creedmore is a charming, charismatic, and deadly Agent of the Gun. He fills the role of anti-hero as at times he has an apparent heart of gold, yet he kills with abandon, destruction follows his path, selfishness rules whenever possible, and yet he's always beholden to his the spirit-like force of the Gun and their agenda. Lowery is member of the Line, he is order, he is conformity, he is the face of the unstoppable force. He struggles with self and the paranoia of completely controlled environment. The wild-west doesn't just unsettle him and the Line, but is its antithesis. A fourth character is the focus of the quest - The General. The General is mad and damaged beyond repair from the forever war waged by the Line. The General also is in possession of the MacGuffin - something that the Line and the Gun both need to win their ever-ongoing fight and both need to keep out of the hands of their bitter enemy. This knowledge is buried inside his madness.

This character study is not as fully built as the world in terms of the thematic laws that govern Gilman's creation, though it's strong enough to support a balance. And it throws into view, something I haven't really discussed yet - plot. Yes, there is a plot. The plot is strong enough to drive the story, motivate the characters and survive the world, yet it's arguably not the point. Perhaps the plot is the actual MacGuffin here, I'm not sure. It sort of makes me want wonder what M. John Harrison would think of it all - after all, this book is either a giant 'FU' to Harrison's views on fantasy and genre, or it's the logical next step. It's probably both, and it's a bit weird as well, which generally makes his sort rather pleased. But I digress.

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