57 replies to this topic

[ericxihn]

I'm against this as well, but I'm not sure how much petitions signed by westerners will help. I'm afraid that may piss them off and cause them to dig in their heels over the issue.

[The Iceman of the North]

ericxihn, on 11 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I'm against this as well, but I'm not sure how much petitions signed by westerners will help. I'm afraid that may piss them off and cause them to dig in their heels over the issue.

Yeah, governmental pressure from nations 'friendly' to Uganda would be more efficient.

[Sci-2]

The ‘Kill the Gays’ Bill: Why It Matters Outside Uganda

Quote

It’s never really about the gays. When any government suddenly wakes up to the homosexual menace, chances are it’s a smokescreen. In the US, every time an election gets close, right wingers like to press on the homosexual panic button to get the faithful out to vote. Uganda is no exception. As Stephen Wood writes on AllAfrica.com:

Currently, the Anti-Homosexuality Bill lies in a queue behind another controversial bill that will determine who has access and control over Uganda’s lucrative oil resources.

Similarly, a number of high-level corruption scandals dog the Government, such as those within the Office of the Prime Minister and Ministry of Public Service, which have led in recent weeks to aid withdrawal from a number of countries, including the UK and Germany. Simultaneously, attacks on press freedom and civil society continue to occur.

Gerald Bareebe and Brett House point out that the first incarnation of the bill happened in 2009 when Uganda’s increasingly autocratic president Museveni was suppressing riots in the semi-autonomous Buganda region. The US State Department has been raising a lot of concerns about serious problems in Uganda’s electoral processes. All that makes this a perfect time to throw gays “under the Ugandan bus” write Bareebe and House.

In short, Ugandan gays are a lot like nuclear weapons in North Korea: the threat to blow one up gets intensified whenever either government comes under increased pressure.

[Darth Arya]

Surely a good idea would be to stop all Foreign Aid until they pull their backwards outlook into the 21st Century.

[polishgenius]

Darth Arya, on 11 December 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

Surely a good idea would be to stop all Foreign Aid until they pull their backwards outlook into the 21st Century.

Yes, let's let the kids and plenty of other folk who may not have any truck with this starve because the opinion-formers and lawmakers (and probably the people who are least likely to be hit by such a thing) is wrong. That's definitely going to win people over to the cause.

[Revan Baratheon]

polishgenius, on 11 December 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Yes, let's let the kids and plenty of other folk who may not have any truck with this starve because the opinion-formers and lawmakers (and probabl
y the people who are least likely to be hit by such a thing) is wrong. That's definitely going to win people over to the cause.

Well I think he's trying to say why should u give ur hard-earned money to indirectly support these fucks. Their probably corrupt as well and pocket all that foreign aid(at least 75%) for themselves.

[polishgenius]

Revan Baratheon, on 11 December 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

Well I think he's trying to say why should u give ur hard-earned money to indirectly support these fucks. Their probably corrupt as well and pocket all that foreign aid(at least 75%) for themselves.

But that's an entirely different problem.

[TerraPrime]

75% of all statistics posted on the internet are random make-up numbers.

Just FYI.

[Revan Baratheon]

Lol I never claimed it was an official statistic

[Castel]

polishgenius, on 11 December 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Yes, let's let the kids and plenty of other folk who may not have any truck with this starve because the opinion-formers and lawmakers (and probably the people who are least likely to be hit by such a thing) is wrong. That's definitely going to win people over to the cause.

Yeah, does this work? Or does it just make the people  leaders dig their heels in and ride it out?

[Crazydog7]

I can hear my evangelical cousins now these Ugandan pastors are not "true Christians"

It is so much more Christ like to hate the sin of homosexuality but love the person.  Totally condescending and paternalistic.

At least the guys who hate the gays are being honest and not trying to couch it in anything.  None of this would be a problem if our government would grant Ugandan homosexuals asylum in the US.
However that would require a spine.

[TerraPrime]

Crazydog7, on 12 December 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

However that would require a spine.

Spine, and most likely political suicide for all but a few Congress people.

[Castel]

Crazydog7, on 12 December 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

I can hear my evangelical cousins now these Ugandan pastors are not "true Christians"

It is so much more Christ like to hate the sin of homosexuality but love the person.  Totally condescending and paternalistic.

At least the guys who hate the gays are being honest and not trying to couch it in anything.  None of this would be a problem if our government would grant Ugandan homosexuals asylum in the US.
However that would require a spine.

Condescending and paternalistic isn't threatening to kill people.

That particular religious doublethink or maneuvering may be annoying, but it's much better than the alternative.

Edited by Castel, 12 December 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[Elyrica]

It's really scary how some people believe they have the right to claim they are more 'correct' than others. In Uganda, they seriously think that the gays are a group who tries to recruit new members like some sect or something. They also believe that it is not a crime to beat, rape or kill homosexuals. And they teach their children that it is a huge sin to be homosexual.
Being from a very homosexual-friendly country, I am horryfied about Uganda and their treatment of gays. Seriously fucked up people.

[straits]

Elyrica, on 12 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

It's really scary how some people believe they have the right to claim they are more 'correct' than others. In Uganda, they seriously think that the gays are a group who tries to recruit new members like some sect or something. They also believe that it is not a crime to beat, rape or kill homosexuals. And they teach their children that it is a huge sin to be homosexual.
Being from a very homosexual-friendly country, I am horryfied about Uganda and their treatment of gays. Seriously fucked up people.

If your country happens to be a first world country with no major economic issue, and no major threat to overall livelihood, it makes sense that social issues get gradually resolved. About a third of the population in Uganda is illiterate. That is the kind of thing that leads to ignorance and clinging to certain beliefs.

[Ormond]

Gay Ugandans can be granted asylum in the USA already:

http://www.metroweek...m/news/?ak=6271

And I find it really hard to believe that a congressperson who publically supported granting asylum to this man would be "committing political suicide." It's hard for me to see how this could be spun as something that would negatively impact enough voters even in a Republican primary in the most conservative districts to cause someone to lose an election.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Elyrica and straits

Quote

In Uganda, they seriously think that the gays are a group who tries to recruit new members like some sect or something.

In the United States, today, there are still plenty of people who think that homosexual people recruit new members by targeting children or teenagers. It is not a belief that's specific to Uganda or other developing nations. What is specific to Uganda's homophobia, and homophobia in general in African countries, is the notion that homosexuality is a white colonial import. They attribute the existence of homosexuality to the actions of the white colonialists. But other than that, everything you find in Uganda, you can find in any number of Westernized countries.



Re: Ormond

Ormond, on 12 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Gay Ugandans can be granted asylum in the USA already:

http://www.metroweek...m/news/?ak=6271

And I find it really hard to believe that a congressperson who publically supported granting asylum to this man would be "committing political suicide." It's hard for me to see how this could be spun as something that would negatively impact enough voters even in a Republican primary in the most conservative districts to cause someone to lose an election.

You have a more lenient view of social conservatives, then, because I'm thinking of Republican smear tactics, including faxing flyers claiming their opponents are gay, during elections. I wonder if that sort of stuff is not effective then why do election staff from the GOP use it?

[BLU-RAY]

Ormond- there is a difference between supporting asylum for an individual/specific situation and supporting it for a group in general, which would likely be more a matter of policy/voting, and which also means that opponents/Fundies can target him/her as a supporter of "the gays" rather than someome who helped a gay PERSON. It is much easier to dehumanize a group- one death is a tragedy, a million deaths are a statistic, and all that.

[Cora Stark]

I believe this is PURE bullshit! People should be able to love whoever or whatever they want
Im not gay but I would never bash someone for being gay.

[Daenerys is my queen]

ericxihn, on 11 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I'm against this as well, but I'm not sure how much petitions signed by westerners will help. I'm afraid that may piss them off and cause them to dig in their heels over the issue.

I'm not sure if it'll help either but I'd rather do something that might not help than do nothing at all. (:

Crazydog7, on 12 December 2012 - 03:20 AM, said:

I can hear my evangelical cousins now these Ugandan pastors are not "true Christians"

It is so much more Christ like to hate the sin of homosexuality but love the person.  Totally condescending and paternalistic.

At least the guys who hate the gays are being honest and not trying to couch it in anything.  None of this would be a problem if our government would grant Ugandan homosexuals asylum in the US.
However that would require a spine.

They aren't true Christians. True Christians don't go around killing people.