Elementary

[Guy Kilmore]

I have been reading Doyle's stuff and you can usuall figure out the "who in Sherlock's Holmes quickly, but not the how and the why. (The rare times you can't figure out the who, it is because the who has not been presented at all really.) I thought the most recent episode in Elementary, after the super bowl, was pretty good in this respect. I also think the BBC version is "better", but they are really different formants (Mini-series as opposed to weekly drama).

[Black Wolf Smith]

I have been reading Doyle's stuff and you can usuall figure out the "who in Sherlock's Holmes quickly, but not the how and the why. (The rare times you can't figure out the who, it is because the who has not been presented at all really.) I thought the most recent episode in Elementary, after the super bowl, was pretty good in this respect. I also think the BBC version is "better", but they are really different formants (Mini-series as opposed to weekly drama).

I agree. I was just pointing out, unlike many US shows, (NCIS, NCIS:LA, L & O, etc.) you don't always know 8 mintues in who did it.

[Warg Arry]

I really liked this one. It was interesting seeing Sherlock rattled. Seriously I get the guys anxiety. But what an asshole.

For a moment I was worried that Sherlock and Watson was going to have it out. After he spoke to his father.

[red snow]

I thought the last few episodes of this season were pretty good. I was particularly impressed with the feature length finale. There's one thing I can now say with conviction is better than the BBC version. Moriarty.

I thought it was going to be that Irene was an agent of Moriarty so was pretty surprised when it turned out she was Moriarty. I sort of kicked myself because it when the hitman mentioned "she" I thought "Moriarty could be a woman. Watson is" but still didn't think it was Adler. I'm pleased it meant Dormer could drop her somewhat ropey american accent and she is proving to be quite a versatile actress. I don't know if she demands to do nudity in her roles though as even Elementary went out of it's way to show her wearing as little as possible for a network show.

What was Moriarty's weakness? The implication I got was that she was weirdly in love with Sherlock despite him thwarting her plans. It would make sense that Watson worked this out and not Sherlock

The second half of the season got a bit samey but it looks like they can do strong episodes when required. I'm guessing/hoping that Moriarty finds a way out of the current predicament (it seems likely) and that they can contine to have Moriarty causing him problems. That said, I'd really like the show to develop som other nemeses for Holmes. There's nothing stopping them.

I was a bit leery of the idea of a female Watson but Miller and Lui have a really fun chemistry together and they have yet to force any romantic angle. It's inevitable (especially considering the events of the finale) but i hope they keep it as a slow burn.

Should be fun when it returns as it looks like "sherlock" will be airing before the end of the year/early 2014.

[Warg Arry]

I think Moriarty was intrigued with Sherlock. There was the definite "I'm much smarter than you" feeling. But Sherlock kept surprising Moriarty. It's a decent parallel to Sherlock who must solve the puzzle. That it becomes an open ended question of why or how. If Sherlock was killed. That might be something that eats at Moriarty. I don't think Moriarty figured out what Watson did. Or at least didn't recognise it as that. I don't think it is in the same league as BBC Sherlock. But as a show on it's own merits. It's entertaining, engaging. And has some great character chemistry. There is definitely some formulaic episodes. But there is some great griping episodes too. Overall the actors have seemed consistent in their portrayal of this version. I'm pleased it has been renewed for a second season.

[red snow]

I think Moriarty was intrigued with Sherlock. There was the definite "I'm much smarter than you" feeling. But Sherlock kept surprising Moriarty. It's a decent parallel to Sherlock who must solve the puzzle. That it becomes an open ended question of why or how. If Sherlock was killed. That might be something that eats at Moriarty. I don't think Moriarty figured out what Watson did. Or at least didn't recognise it as that. I don't think it is in the same league as BBC Sherlock. But as a show on it's own merits. It's entertaining, engaging. And has some great character chemistry. There is definitely some formulaic episodes. But there is some great griping episodes too. Overall the actors have seemed consistent in their portrayal of this version. I'm pleased it has been renewed for a second season.

Yeah, this Moriary's motivations and wanting Sherlock around worked far better than it did in "sherlock". Moriarty's final scene in "Sherlock" just struck me as a bit pathetic.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I thought the last few episodes of this season were pretty good. I was particularly impressed with the feature length finale. There's one thing I can now say with conviction is better than the BBC version. Moriarty.

I thought it was strange to have Dormer doing an american Adler. It was a very nice twist.

Funny you brought up Dormer and nudity. I don't think I have ever seen her in a role that she didn't have a nude scene. Even in the Fades, she just had to show her very small breast. I know that CBS won't do one but still....

[The Anti-Targ]

I think I like Elementary and Sherlock equally, but on different terms. In some respects it's the different re-imagining of Watson that gives each show its distinct and worthy place. I thought comboing Irene Adler as Moriarty was a masterful stroke for Elementary. I personally hated the way the Moriarty storyline ended up in Sherlock, and I really hope there's more to it than what it seems. Perhaps he wasn't the real Moriarty, and he was just an insane puppet with a deathwish.

[Jaxom 1974]

It's a nice twist, but how does it go forward?

There is the danger of falling into a pattern of having Moriarty freed and a pattern develops. They'd have been better off letting her get away for now...

[The Anti-Targ]

It's a nice twist, but how does it go forward?

There is the danger of falling into a pattern of having Moriarty freed and a pattern develops. They'd have been better off letting her get away for now...

Nah, Moriarty should be willing to stay in prison for a little while, if only to show Holmes that imprisonment is no barrier to her carrying forward her plans, thus he doesn't really win.

In the end Holmes will have to realise that the only way Moriarity doesn't win is if she dies, and not on her own terms. I imagine Season 2 will have to end with Moriarty's death, or at least convincingly appearing to die. The spectre of a known to be alive Moriarty hanging over the show through multiple seasons won't really work.

[Black Wolf Smith]

It's a nice twist, but how does it go forward?

There is the danger of falling into a pattern of having Moriarty freed and a pattern develops. They'd have been better off letting her get away for now...

You also can't have Adler coming swooping in and out, throwing Sherlock off his game with this storyline/twist.

[red snow]

I guess however the moriarty relationship ends it will have to involve falling from something and possibly killing Sherlock too.

I think when they do use Moriarty again it will be to punish Watson as it was her who actually outsmarted Moriarty. Which must hurt as she knows Watson isn't of the same intellect.

[Warg Arry]

I agree that Moriarty would probably target Watson. I'm sort of surprised that it didn't happen to some degree in the finale. Perhaps it's because Moriarty dismissed Watson as any kind of player. Mascot was probably the best descriptor. Now Watson has shown her talents. And Sherlock made that promise to protect her from Moriarty. You just know that will be fully tested.

[Daenerys is my queen]

The finale was awesome. I thought Irene being Moriarty was a nice twist. And Joan solving the case in the end was great.

Also, still freaking out over Euglassia Watsonia. :)

[red snow]

I agree that Moriarty would probably target Watson. I'm sort of surprised that it didn't happen to some degree in the finally. Perhaps it's because Moriarty dismissed Watson as any kind of player. Mascot was probably the best descriptor. Now Watson has shown her talents. And Sherlock made that promise to protect her from Moriarty. You just know that will be fully tested.

Yeah, Watson was only considered as a tool to threaten Holmes. She won't make that mistake again :)

[Seventh Pup]

I've recently been reading the Complete Sherlock Holmes. It's a monster of a book, and I am about 75% of the way through it. I've also been on a Sherlock Holmes kick, and have recently watched the first two season's of Sherlock, and the whole of Elementary.

I agree with those who say they are equal, but very different. Both Benedict Cumberbatch and Jonny Lee Miller are fantastic Sherlocks, but they each have their own take on him. Both Lucy Liu and Martin Freeman are wonderful but different Watsons. Both duos have the a very true to the books chemistry about them so far.

Reading the books you are struck some times about what an unreliable narrator Watson is. For instance Watson never mentions that his wife dies, he just say he had his "own personal tragedy", sells his practice and moves back in with Holmes on Baker Street. You assume his wife must have died, but you are never told that. Likewise despite the fact that Holmes often works for shady clients, and intersects all portions of the London social gamut from royalty to beggars. At least so far he has not as far as I remember up to this point come across one prostitute. Watson is the stiff lipped Victorian Londoner who is telling the story of a complicated man to other Victorians, you always get the sense that he is sanitizing it a bit.

Both shows are doing a great job with showing the relationship with Watson and how it develops, to be one of, if not the most important relationship of both Watson and Holmes' life.

Sherlock is amazing, but has it's weakness's, both the characters of Mycroft and Moriarty felt less then top notch and unauthentic. That said Cumberbatch is magnetic to watch, Freeman is just perfect, and the writing over all is pretty tight. I can't not wait for the next season to start.

Elementary took a little longer to find it's feet. But so far I think it's been pretty true to the book, things like the blackmail episode, Watson helping Holmes overcome his addiction, Moriarty a million little references to books make watching it a treat. The cast is solid and I am impatient for the second season.

I also like that this version may well explore a romantic relationship between Holmes and Watson. It it was done right I think it could be immensely satisfying. I can't wait to see how they do Mycroft (whom I suspect they've changed to his father instead of his brother), and how they do some of the more iconic cases like the Hound of the Baskervilles.

[red snow]

What do you think of the RDJR Holmes in terms of interpreting the books? I think Holmes seems to be one of those characters that you can portray in many ways and I've found all of the recent versions quite enjoyable.

Have any of the episodes of "elementary" mirrored cases from the book? I'm out of date on the source material (by about 20 years) but hadn't noticed any direct comparisons so far, whereas Sherlock does seem to mimic the exact cases.

[Seventh Pup]

I wo

What do you think of the RDJR Holmes in terms of interpreting the books? I think Holmes seems to be one of those characters that you can portray in many ways and I've found all of the recent versions quite enjoyable.

Have any of the episodes of "elementary" mirrored cases from the book? I'm out of date on the source material (by about 20 years) but hadn't noticed any direct comparisons so far, whereas Sherlock does seem to mimic the exact cases.

The first one that jumps out at me is the blackmail episode, because I had literally just read "The Adventure of Charles Augustus Milverton" when Dead Man's Switch aired. The show was fairly to true story in feeling; though it changed a lot of the details to make the murderer less sympathetic; but captured Holmes true disgust of blackmailers.

Other things like how they handled Sebastian Moran's character as Moriarty's general, seemed true to the theme of the book.

I also enjoyed seeing this Sherlock practices of single stick, which seems to combine the real Sherlock's mastery of boxing and fencing.

Also that this Watson's introduction is to help Sherlock overcome his addiction is a great take on the character. While Holmes' addictions are not mentioned very often in the books, when they are it is evident how much it pains Watson that Sherlock uses cocaine or morphine. Holmes overcoming his addiction happens off screen in the books, but you can still tell how proud Watson is that he helps his friend overcome his addictions, and how worried he is that Sherlock will start using again.

Introducing Sherlock's love of bees, early on is nice, the books don't really go into that much but you do know that when he retires he becomes a bee farmer, so actually building bee keeping into the character is a nice touch.

There is more, but stuff like make tends to catch my attention. :)

As for RDJR as Sherlock? There is defiantly a basis for that take on Sherlock. Sherlock is a prizing winning boxer, a fencer, and uses the Japanese fight style of Baritsu to defeat Moriarty. There is defiantly enough to make him an action hero. Though in general that is not the focus of Watson's telling of Holmes story. In fact despite being told on several occasions that Sherlock is a great fencer, at least up to the point in the Complete Sherlock that I am in, I have never seen him fence. Part of this is because Sherlock tends to leave Watson out of the dangerous bits of the investigation when he can help it. The eccentricity and making of chemical stimulants is defiantly in Holmes' character. Holmes is an avid chemist, who has a little bit of the mad scientist in him. But personally when I see RDJR doing Holmes, I still see RDJR, which is enjoyable but not my favorite Holmes.

That said Stephen Frye as Mycroft is completely perfect in every way.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

I finally finished S1 of Elementary and it ended in spectacular fashion! First off--Margaery Tyrell is ridiculously hot as a blonde. I love the modern BBC version w/ Cumberbatch and Freemen, but Elementary started off as a bit "lesser" in comparison. Well, after the last three episodes of S1, I'd say the NYC Holmes & Watson are on par w/ their London/BBC counterparts. Perhaps even surpassing the BBC version, as Sherlock is a much more realistic (i.e. emotional) person than the stoic, Mr. Spock-like demeanor of Cumberbatch's Holmes.

[Warg Arry]

I know it's been a while since we have all talked about this show.

Somewhat episodic, it may be. But I think that is in the nature of a detective type show.

I thought after the plot development of season 1 that I would disengage from the next season. I couldn't imagine how this could improve.

We are up to season 2 episode 10 and I'm really enjoying the overall progress and growth of each character.

The interaction and relationship between Sherlock and Joan is fantastic. Joan can hold her own ground. Sherlock even defers to Joan and her particular expertise.

That moment when he gave her his chest of unsolved cases. Fantastic moment.

I'm also really enjoying Sherlock's progress through the sobriety program. I didn't think it would be a story plot that would interest me. But it does have a great way of reflecting his actual growth as a character.

I'm not sure how I feel about the Mycroft situation. At first I was completely on his side. Given that he was dying and seemed to make a genuine effort to reconnect with his brother. In contrast Sherlock was a bit too rude in rebuffing his brother.

They seemed to reach an awkward acknowledgement of their sibling relationship. Which was oddly endearing.

That is until the reveal that Mycroft is playing some kind of long game.

I'm just really interested if any one else is suspicious or if - for whatever reason - think it is an innocuous/weird brotherly gesture. Maybe Mycroft really does just want his brother back in 221B Baker st where he can watch over him....