1260 replies to this topic

[PatrickStormborn]

Winter, on 12 December 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Is that why you've abandoned me?

I'm sorry. I have a lot of posts to make, actually! I'm really behind on my meta. I'll be back in full defensive mode shortly, I promise.

In other news: I've almost finished my re-read now. Cersei's AFfC chapters, whilst infuriating because of Maggy the Plot Device, are still brilliant. She is one of the few POVs that I still look forward to reading. The only others are Sansa, Jaime and Asha. AFfC and ADwD certainly read better together -- the pace is still slow, but at least there isn't a Tyrion chapter every time I turn the page!

Meereen is still awful. However, I'm actually finding my re-read of Dany's chapters very similar to my first read (except now I actually like Daario). After finishing the book I came on this forum and was surprised to find so much hatred for the chapters and even for Dany herself. Re-reading I was expecting to like her a lot less and like Jon a lot more... but surprisingly I don't. Honestly I still find Jon's leadership to be quite amateurish; whilst Dany silences the threatening men of her court and even frightens them, Jon has to tell the wildlings of Mole's Town: "... You will be under my command. Disobey an order, and I'll have your head off. Ask my brothers if I won't. They've seen me do it." To me this shows the fundamental difference between Dany and Jon in ADwD -- she's a far more imposing, threatening, authoritative figure than he is. And yet she tries to shy away from this while he tries to embrace it.

... Okay I think I got a bit off topic there. But yeah. I guess my confession is that I still find Dany and Jon to be pretty much equal in ADwD. He makes better decisions, but he has easier choices.

Edited by PatrickStormborn, 12 December 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[The Great Walrus]

Éadaoin, on 12 December 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

It will happen when the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.

Well, its official, you are just as much of a nerd as i am.

[Mark Antony]

Ya Danys ADWD chapters really weren't that bad, I enjoyed them. (even more-so on a re-read)

[Kanon]

Mark Antony, on 12 December 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Ya Danys ADWD chapters really weren't that bad, I enjoyed them. (even more-so on a re-read)

I think they would be better received if GRRM ended the Meereen plot in ADWD and had dany sailing to Westeros in her last chapter.

[Éadaoin]

Kanon, on 12 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I think they would be better received if GRRM ended the Meereen plot in ADWD and had dany sailing to Westeros in her last chapter.

Most definitely. I also think GRRM's frustration with Meereen really came through in ADWD, personally. It seemed to me like he didn't quite know what to do with Dany.

[straits]

Kanon, on 12 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I think they would be better received if GRRM ended the Meereen plot in ADWD and had dany sailing to Westeros in her last chapter.

Tyrion's travelogue in aDwD combined with Dany's sitting in Meereen halted my reading several times. They were both pretty interesting on re-read but it felt like trying to start a car in -40 C weather, even on re-reads.

[Kittykatknits]

PatrickStormborn, on 12 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

I confess that I've started posting a lot less frequently recently because I've realised that I have Fandom Rage. I just can't seem to read a misinformed/biased opinion on Dany/Sansa/Cat/Cersei without wanting to flip tables and set things on fire.

I must confess that I understand.
I must also confess that you've sent me in to a small panic and I feel the need to beg you not to leave.

The Great Walrus, on 12 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Finally, someone who enjoys Brans chapters as much as i do.

No, not just you. I've always enjoyed his chapters. I like the way they are written and the way he thinks. He's always made me think of a mix of wizened old man and young child.

Kanon, on 12 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I think they would be better received if GRRM ended the Meereen plot in ADWD and had dany sailing to Westeros in her last chapter.

Yes, I agree.

[Éadaoin]

I confess I am really enjoying the "Why the sympathy?" thread, it is really interesting to examine the effects of how characters are written.

I confess that Dorne interests me in theory but not as much in reality.

I confess that I hope Dany trains her dragons properly.

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

PatrickStormborn, on 12 December 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

I'm sorry. I have a lot of posts to make, actually! I'm really behind on my meta. I'll be back in full defensive mode shortly, I promise.

In other news: I've almost finished my re-read now. Cersei's AFfC chapters, whilst infuriating because of Maggy the Plot Device, are still brilliant. She is one of the few POVs that I still look forward to reading. The only others are Sansa, Jaime and Asha. AFfC and ADwD certainly read better together -- the pace is still slow, but at least there isn't a Tyrion chapter every time I turn the page!

Meereen is still awful. However, I'm actually finding my re-read of Dany's chapters very similar to my first read (except now I actually like Daario). After finishing the book I came on this forum and was surprised to find so much hatred for the chapters and even for Dany herself. Re-reading I was expecting to like her a lot less and like Jon a lot more... but surprisingly I don't. Honestly I still find Jon's leadership to be quite amateurish; whilst Dany silences the threatening men of her court and even frightens them, Jon has to tell the wildlings of Mole's Town: "... You will be under my command. Disobey an order, and I'll have your head off. Ask my brothers if I won't. They've seen me do it." To me this shows the fundamental difference between Dany and Jon in ADwD -- she's a far more imposing, threatening, authoritative figure than he is. And yet she tries to shy away from this while he tries to embrace it.

... Okay I think I got a bit off topic there. But yeah. I guess my confession is that I still find Dany and Jon to be pretty much equal in ADwD. He makes better decisions, but he has easier choices.

It's only because she has dragons, and I'm saying this a Dany fangirl.

[Kittykatknits]

Éadaoin, on 12 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

I confess I am really enjoying the "Why the sympathy?" thread, it is really interesting to examine the effects of how characters are written.

I confess that Dorne interests me in theory but not as much in reality.

I very much agree about Dorne. From what we learn of it, I should love the place. Yet, everything in a Dorne chapter feels like an afterthought. I can't engage even though I know I should very much enjoy it.

I do hope the sympathy thread is coming across the way I intended it, an exploration of Martin's literary tricks and skills to explore how we respond to characters. I'm glad you are enjoying it.

[Starfell]

Éadaoin, on 12 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Most definitely. I also think GRRM's frustration with Meereen really came through in ADWD, personally. It seemed to me like he didn't quite know what to do with Dany.

Meereen is like some horrible sinkhole and as characters get closer and closer to it their chapters become more bogged down and harder to read

[ab aeterno]

Kittykatknits, on 12 December 2012 - 05:37 PM, said:

No, not just you. I've always enjoyed his chapters. I like the way they are written and the way he thinks. He's always made me think of a mix of wizened old man and young child.

Me too. Bran's chapters are probably my favorites overall, along with Davos', Arya's and Jon's.

Edited by ab aeterno, 12 December 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[Florina Stark]

MyLittleDirewolf, on 12 December 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

I confess I've become rather defensive about Jon Snow lately.  I actually dreaded his chapters at times.  Now I'm finding him interesting.  Am I becoming a fangirl?   Dun dun DUN!!

COME TO THE WINTER SIDE! WE HAVE IRISH CHEESE!

Winter, on 12 December 2012 - 03:20 PM, said:

Is that why you've abandoned me?

I confess that ive come to appreciate you in particular more than i used to.

The Great Walrus, on 12 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Finally, someone who enjoys Brans chapters as much as i do.

Yeee! All hail the Bran chapters!

PatrickStormborn, on 12 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

I confess that I've started posting a lot less frequently recently because I've realised that I have Fandom Rage. I just can't seem to read a misinformed/biased opinion on Dany/Sansa/Cat/Cersei without wanting to flip tables and set things on fire.

So, so so.....do i have to invoke the Inner PatrickStormborn to fill the gap? Say it aint so!

I confess i find Fandom Rage to be a bit silly. Cant we all just get along?[/Rodney King]

[The Great Walrus]

Éadaoin, on 12 December 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

I confess I am really enjoying the "Why the sympathy?" thread, it is really interesting to examine the effects of how characters are written.

I confess that Dorne interests me in theory but not as much in reality.

I confess that I hope Dany trains her dragons properly.

Stop stealing my opinions! I liked it at first, but now its kind of annoying...

[The Great Walrus]

Florina Stark, on 12 December 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

COME TO THE WINTER SIDE! WE HAVE IRISH CHEESE!


I confess that ive come to appreciate you in particular more than i used to.


Yeee! All hail the Bran chapters!



So, so so.....do i have to invoke the Inner PatrickStormborn to fill the gap? Say it aint so!

I confess i find Fandom Rage to be a bit silly. Cant we all just get along?[/Rodney King]

Florina, i...i think i'm in love.

[Florina Stark]

I like the Why The Sympathy thread because meta concepts are something i really enjoy exploring.

[Starfell]

Oh, confession: I'm becoming more and more indifferent to Jon as the series goes on, I can smell "chosen one" coming off him and I don't like it, all I ever wanted was for him to excel in the Night's Watch, no Kingships or messiahness, by this point I honestly wouldn't care that much if he came back damaged like Catelyn or Beric. I'm so sorry Jon fans.

[straits]

Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl, on 12 December 2012 - 05:49 PM, said:

It's only because she has dragons, and I'm saying this a Dany fangirl.

I was gonna say that. No one can cower people like that. Not even if Dany were actually Gregor. You can deal with imposing men and women. You can't deal with a woman who happens to be the closest thing three dragons have to a mama.

[Éadaoin]

Florina Stark, on 12 December 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

I like the Why The Sympathy thread because meta concepts are something i really enjoy exploring.

What is "meta"? I see people say this all of the time but... I don't know what it is.

[Florina Stark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meta
Have a look at that. Its a bit hard for me to explain because im lame like that. Haha!