70 replies to this topic

[Sophelia]

Thank you folks - this thread cheered me up a lot!

"Male values" have come in for a severe mockery, particularly from males, it seems...

The odd thing was that the context was a serious one, but I am reassured that my bafflement is shared by others, as it made me feel helplessly naive not to know what he was talking about.  I think Datepalm is probably the closest to what he must have meant:

Datepalm, on 12 December 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Hm, i'd actually assume it was more in the direction of, y'know, decisiveness and responsibility and catering to ego and valuing competitive achievement and Men Being Real Men and things like that. What tone did the conversation have?

All I could think of was competitiveness, but he was also talking about the importance of 'being a team' in the same conversation, so that didn't seem to fit together.  If you have a moment, Datepalm, what do you mean by 'catering for ego'?

Er yes, so back to other interpretations of 'traditional male values'.

Edited by Sophelia, 13 December 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Datepalm]

Sophelia, on 13 December 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

All I could think of was competitiveness, but he was also talking about the importance of 'being a team' in the same conversation, so that didn't seem to fit together.  If you have a moment, Datepalm, what do you mean by 'catering for ego'

Good question, because I have no idea...I suppose I meant something like, y'know, everyone stepping back and acknowledging how awesome some (male type) one is and just letting them got on with their job, dammit, this is important! (Because, you know, your data entry job is just like being in a bad cop show.)

You know, (and I do apologize for dragging the thread away from urinations jokes. No really.) I worked at a place for a while that had something like an explicitely not-male-values code. It was the 'social involvement' office at the university. Like 80% female, very academic, very pretentious, etc. We'd have 'consensus circles' and 'personal reflection talks' (instead of, y'know, "meetings".) and so on, and in some ways it was unbearably twee and a nails-on-blackboard work atmosphere, not to mention chaotic and badly administered (I think the woolly 'feminism' was a symptom of the same incompetencies rather than one being causal of the other though).

One guy at one point lost it and went so far as to write an email to the whole team saying that he felt 'castrated', and to be honest, I could totally sympathize. There were some interesting ideas there and stuff I liked that they tried to do with heirarchy and dialogue and so on, but they really insisted on framing it as somehow a gender thing, ("Your insistence on a course of action to be implemented effectively is a product of a patriarchial need to dominate the conversation, John. I would like you to think about that as you process the experience of being the only male in the circle",) which pretty naturally alienated the men (and the rest of us too.)  "Male values" seems like the other side of that coin - the poor wimminz who have to sit in their circles and have their hand held because they can't possibly make decisions on their own, and the men who must be released to roam free through the plastic plants and cubicle walls to hunt down their quarterly project goals in primal splendour etc. Basically, gender essentialism = dumbass.

ETA - oh, teams, that works too, no? Sacred male bonding vs. those bitchy women. There is no way this stuff doesn't work. Everything can be a male value somehow if you feel like it, once you start splitting things up like that.

Edited by Datepalm, 13 December 2012 - 04:25 AM.

[Elder Sister]

Datepalm, your description of that place reminded me of the Saturday Night Live skit with Alec Baldwin, the NPR ladies, and Schvetty balls.

I think I'm going to start having some 'personal reflection' talks.

Edited by Elder Sister, 13 December 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[Balefont]

Horza, on 12 December 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I find rubbing my loins against verical surfaces provides adequate warning to greater felines to stay away from my domain. That's what I told building security, not that those feminazi drones heeded me.

[Hereward]

When you come right down to it, male values consist entirely of the Sanctity of the Round*. So, I'm taking from this that they're annoyed that the modern feminist work environment frowns upon lunchtime drinking of such extent that you can go all the way around the group and reach closure.

*That and the God given right to put a Pirelli calendar on the wall.

[SerMixalot]

Clearly this man was upset that the seat had to be put down on a regular basis.

[Noontidal]

SerMixalot, on 13 December 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Clearly this man was upset that the seat had to be put down on a regular basis.

By someone else.  I do not necessarily need the seat down, in a coed work restroom the person that needs it down is free to arrange that situation.

[Balefont]

SerMixalot, on 13 December 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Clearly this man was upset that the seat had to be put down on a regular basis.

Sometimes I wish more women left the seat up in public restrooms.  If they're going squat, leave the seat up so they don't make a mess on the seat.

[Raskolnikov]

Datepalm, on 13 December 2012 - 04:16 AM, said:

It was the 'social involvement' office at the university. Like 80% female, very academic, very pretentious, etc. We'd have 'consensus circles' and 'personal reflection talks' (instead of, y'know, "meetings".)

You wimmins and your fancy terms! We just call it "circlejerking."

[Gillio]

straits, on 12 December 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

ran out of likes five likes ago

so you follow the principle of like it or lump it?

[R'hllor's Bastard]

I think the guy was just saying it wrong.
There is most definately a great amount of sexism towards men in the modern American workplace.

This is just one small example of many.
I worked at Food Lion and my female boss would always offer to "give me some titty" if i did a good job. Im not  type guy that is comfortable talking about sex like that with women, im really not comfortabe talking with women at all to be honest but i will do it for work. She made me really freaked out feeling when she did that stuff. When i complained I became the weirdo and the outcast of the whole store. People started saying I must be gay and I should be flattered.
I know if a male boss offered to give a female employee some dick if she did a good job he would be in major trouble.
Thats not counting jobs where im getting the same pay as women yet everything physical labor that involved heavy lifting or really physically stressful work is delegated to me because im a man. On paper the women are getting equal pay for equal workbut in reality they get equal pay while i do a crapload more work.
I have tons of more examples other than these.