17 replies to this topic

[Ruby Chevrolet]

One of the great struggles experienced by the characters in A Song of Ice and Fire is the struggle between conflicting obligations.  This is particularly poignant when it comes to oaths that may present conflicting imperatives.  To me, one of the most interesting manifestations of this comes for Maester Aemon.  Three times he keeps his vows when he wants to break them.  But the fourth time, he tries to desert the Night's Watch.

In A Game of Thrones, Maester Aemon says:

"Three times the gods saw fit to test my vows.  Once when I was a boy, once in the fullness of my manhood, and once when I had grown old."

Of the third time, he says:  "My ravens would bring the news from the south, words darker than their wings, the ruin of my House, the death of my kin, disgrace and desolation."

Maester Aemon would not break his vows for any of these things.

But in A Feast for Crows, he is tempted a fourth time:

"Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke.  The dragons prove it."  Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger.  "I must go to her.  I must.  Would that I was even ten years younger."  The old man hd been so determined that he had even walked up the plank . . ."

He was under orders from the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch to go to Oldtown but he tried to go to Essos instead.

I don't have a grand theory here, but I do have a question.  Why would Maester Aemon keep his vows -- to the Citadel and to the Night's Watch -- through three great temptations, including the destruction of his House ("they cut down my brother's poor grandson, and his son, and even the little children") only to try to desert the Night's Watch when he thought the Prince Who Was Promised had arrived?  Is there something about the Prince Who Was Promised that transcends all vows, and that is more important than the pull of his loyalty to the Iron Throne?  If so, what is it?  And how does it/will it impact the actions of the other characters?

Any input, fellow boarders, is greatly appreciated!

[DonalNoye]

I'd say the Dany thing is less about her being a Targaryan, and more about her being the one person Aemon thinks can save the Wall, the Watch, and the realm itself. Aemon knew the Others were coming, and he knew the prophecy possibly better than anyone alive. Him going to Dany isn't breaking his vows any more than Alliser Thorne or Yoren going to Kings Landing would be.

[Ser Leftwich]

Several theories I have read are:
(1) Aemon was already ill with a fever and was not completely in charge of his faculties.
(2) Magically speaking, he was only surviving because of the "ice preserves and fire consumes" saying that Aemon himself uses.
(3) He thought that it going to Dany was the most important thing to do for the realm.

We know that Aemon took the maester vows.  Do we know that Aemon took the Night's Watch vows?

[Frey family reunion]

The Prince who was promised is supposed to turn back the threat of the Great Darkness (the Others) and Aemon is all too aware of the actual threat they pose to the realm.

[Bolivar]

There was nothing he could've done during Robert's Rebellion. He was very much an old man at the time, and what could his advice, drowned out by countless others, have done to stop the strength of the Vale and the  North? But as an advisor he could've done a great deal to help Daenerys, in a foreign land and with the weight of the world on her shoulders.

[Ruby Chevrolet]

We don't see Aemon take the Night 's Watch vow but he must have done.  Right?

So does it come down to was he was breaking the vows technically but keeping their spirit by trying to go to Danaerys to save the world?  Or is their some Targaryen imperative to go to the Prince Who Was Promised?

Edited by Ruby Chevrolet, 13 December 2012 - 12:22 AM.

[Dolorous Nedd]

He obviously believed Dany is the savior.  He seemed to have all of his wits about him at the time he said that.  That fact alone is enough to make me think it might be so.

[TheGriffonReborn]

I think it would be the Night's Watch vows that would be in question, Marwyn didn't hesitate to skip town.

But I think saving the entire continent of Westeros is a little more important than a vow to the Night's Watch.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Ser Leftwich, on 12 December 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

Several theories I have read are:
(1) Aemon was already ill with a fever and was not completely in charge of his faculties.
(2) Magically speaking, he was only surviving because of the "ice preserves and fire consumes" saying that Aemon himself uses.
(3) He thought that it going to Dany was the most important thing to do for the realm.

We know that Aemon took the maester vows.  Do we know that Aemon took the Night's Watch vows?

I don't discredit any of these but a simpler answer he is "off the Wall" both figurative and literal. Not leaving when your at the Wall itself is one thing, but once you are off it is something else. Jon relieved him of his duties, and sent him to Oldtown to die, so his watch was infact done. He was still a maester, and had duty to the Citadel but whether he did that in Oldtown or with Dany wouldn't change things that much, from his point of view.

Edited by Black Wolf Smith, 13 December 2012 - 05:12 AM.

[Scipio Africanus]

Ser Leftwich, on 12 December 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

We know that Aemon took the maester vows.  Do we know that Aemon took the Night's Watch vows?

We don't, but we can assume that he did.

Aemon instructing Dany on dragons isn't breaking either vow though. Jon had indeed relieved him of active duty. We know from the app that Aemon was in contact with Rhaegar during Bob's rebellion (and probably before that as well) concerning the PtwP profacy. He would realize that Dany might be key to stopping the Others. Instructing her how to use them would mean helping the realm, not just getting her on a metal chair.

That's why his death is so tragic in my view, he died knowing he still had work to do and a role to play.

[A wilding]

Scipio Africanus, on 13 December 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

We don't, but we can assume that he did.

In his funeral eulogy to Aemon in AFfC, Sam says:

Quote

[He was] a maester of the Citadel, chained and sworn, and Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch, ever faithful.

So I think we can be reasonably certain he did.

Edited by A wilding, 13 December 2012 - 08:54 AM.

[ShowOverBooks]

Old people are emotionally fragile, and was VERY old.

This time, he followed his heart.

[The Molehill That Walks]

Scipio Africanus, on 13 December 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

We don't, but we can assume that he did.

Aemon instructing Dany on dragons isn't breaking either vow though. Jon had indeed relieved him of active duty. We know from the app that Aemon was in contact with Rhaegar during Bob's rebellion (and probably before that as well) concerning the PtwP profacy. He would realize that Dany might be key to stopping the Others. Instructing her how to use them would mean helping the realm, not just getting her on a metal chair.

That's why his death is so tragic in my view, he died knowing he still had work to do and a role to play.

Why assume that he did. Maesters take their own vows and swear to serve the castle/lord that they go to. Surely they wouldn't take another vow?

Edit> I see that A Wilding has already proved me wrong.

Edited by The Molehill That Walks, 13 December 2012 - 09:05 AM.

[willy york]

what if he did actually escape and arya had slain him as a deserter

[Thendel]

Aemon only broke his vows so far as Jon broke his by allying with Stannis: Either action (or intent, in the case of Aemon) would serve to protect the realm from the threat beyond the Wall, so they're actually staying true to the very purpose of the Night's Watch. The "Night's Watch takes no part" thing is a policy, not a vow, and thus does not supercede the duty to protect the realm (which Bowen Marsh and others seem to forget).

Aemon had a pretty good case for what he wanted to do; Dany fits the AA prophecy way better than Stannis, and she has dragons, creatures that are especially effective weapons against the Others (fire and probably the making of dragonglass). The Night's Watch would be daft if it didn't appeal to her for help.

Edited by Thendel, 13 December 2012 - 11:15 AM.

[BlueEyedCrow]

He never broke his vows by going to Essos, their party went to Bravos in order to get a ship to get to Oldtown, a connecting flight, so to speak.  Because Bravos is a port city they heard word of Dany and her dragons via sailors present there.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Scipio Africanus, on 13 December 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

We don't, but we can assume that he did¹.

Aemon instructing Dany on dragons isn't breaking either vow though. Jon had indeed relieved him of active duty. We know from the app that Aemon was in contact with Rhaegar during Bob's rebellion ²(and probably before that as well) concerning the PtwP profacy. He would realize that Dany might be key to stopping the Others. Instructing her how to use them would mean helping the realm, not just getting her on a metal chair.

1 I thought that he said he took both vows, unlike most Maester at the Wall?
2. Really? thats seems very strange on a couple things. Aemon said that he and R had written back and forth about PtwP over the years but made it clear R had stop before reading what ever made him pick up a sword. Also the Mad King did not know where he was, and R did not know that things had gotten so bad until he went to KL.

[King.In.Yellow]

If Aemon had gone to Dany, he would have disobeyed a direct order from his Lord Commander, true, but he would have done it to further the mission of the Watch. Jon wouldn't mind.
There's a saying in the British armed forces: Disobeying orders can get you either court-martial'd or the Victoria cross, depending on the outcome. I'm guessing the Night Watch would see the same.