17 replies to this topic

[Southron_Ambitions]

Before Maester Aemon dies, he tells Sam about the prophecies that both he and Rhaegar had interpreted. He mentions that the Sphinx doesn't solve the riddle, the Sphinx IS the riddle. Does anyone have any thoughts on what Aemon meant?

[Fire Eater]

He refers to Alleraswho is called the Sphinx, Alleras is Sarella spelled backwards. Alleras is actually Oberyn's daughter Sarella Sand.

Edited by Fire Eater, 13 December 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[Ser Leftwich]

Fire Eater, on 13 December 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

He refers to Alleraswho is called the Sphinx, Alleras is Sarella spelled backwards. Alleras is actually Oberyn's daughter Sarella Sand.

Why would Aemon know who Alleras is?  How would they have ever have met?

Alleras uses the same parable, which leads me to think that it is a saying of the Citadel and/or of learned peoples the world over.  I think a "keep reading" is the answer.

[KingOfTheRats]

Fire Eater, on 13 December 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

He refers to Alleraswho is called the Sphinx, Alleras is Sarella spelled backwards. Alleras is actually Oberyn's daughter Sarella Sand.

I knew something was up with that guy...or girl apparently

[Lion of Judah]

I suspect Sallara will find out something while studying for the chain, it maybe about magic or the secrets of the dead. I suppose Aemon might have dreamed about her, but that's just a shot in the dark.

[Fire Eater]

Ser Leftwich, on 13 December 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Why would Aemon know who Alleras is?  How would they have ever have met?

Alleras uses the same parable, which leads me to think that it is a saying of the Citadel and/or of learned peoples the world over.  I think a "keep reading" is the answer.

What other suggestions are there for the sphinx?

Aemon talked of things when he was near death, like the glass candles and dragon eggs that wouldn't hatch.

[Harald Hard-Ruler]

Frankly I don't think it has anything to do with Sarella.

Sphinx's in ASOIAF mythology, much like in real life mythology, are legendary creatures that often ask riddles. In our world the riddles are often asked to travellers who are killed when they can't answer, a hero however will get the correct answer and then the sphinx will commit suicide. In ASOIAF they supposedly riddle dragons.

When on the road with Illyrio, Tyrion sees the statue of a Valyrian Sphinx which is described as a dragon with a woman's face, however the counterpart king statue to that is missing. I believe that the sphinx that IS the riddle is either Dany (a woman and a dragon) or the male counterpart (a man and a dragon which might either be Jon Snow or Aegon).

[Apple Martini]

I don't think it has anything to do with Sarella Sand. I don't think Aemon even knows who Sarella Sand is.

[Dolorous Nedd]

Didn't Sam meet Spinx at the end of A Feast For Crows?

[Apple Martini]

Dolorous Nedd, on 13 December 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

Didn't Sam meet Spinx at the end of A Feast For Crows?

He met Alleras, I believe, but that isn't any indication of what or who Aemon was talking about.

[Ser Leftwich]

Fire Eater, on 13 December 2012 - 01:05 AM, said:

What other suggestions are there for the sphinx?

Aemon talked of things when he was near death, like the glass candles and dragon eggs that wouldn't hatch.

Aemon might have seen/dreamed about Alleras, I will give you that.  Alleras finds Sam and takes him to Marwyn.  There is even a riddle for Sam to solve about Alleras, but where could that go?

Some aspect of the Valyria matching statues: king and queen, Dany and someone, and possibly the male/female 'prince' translation mistake that Aemon mentions.

Crack pot idea: Alleras points out that s/he knew Sam was coming by seeing him in the dragonglass candle.  Maybe the dragonglass candle could see Sam better because Sam was with a Targaryen.  And vice versa, Aemon could see Alleras back through the dragonglass candle looking at him and Sam.

[Cravensbayne]

Ser Leftwich, on 13 December 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Aemon might have seen/dreamed about Alleras, I will give you that.  Alleras finds Sam and takes him to Marwyn.  There is even a riddle for Sam to solve about Alleras, but where could that go?

Some aspect of the Valyria matching statues: king and queen, Dany and someone, and possibly the male/female 'prince' translation mistake that Aemon mentions.

Crack pot idea: Alleras points out that s/he knew Sam was coming by seeing him in the dragonglass candle.  Maybe the dragonglass candle could see Sam better because Sam was with a Targaryen.  And vice versa, Aemon could see Alleras back through the dragonglass candle looking at him and Sam.

My dome exploded reading that! Why can't GRRM write faster so I could know the outcome we all so desperately grasp for?  Aemon wanted to be Dany's maester, so I don't think that would be breaking his oath. I'm pretty sure he swore the NW oath, so I don't know.

[Harald Hard-Ruler]

Here is an excerpt from the Tyrion chapter from ADWD, when they are talking about Tyrion meeting up with Dany and while they're actually going to immediately meet up with Aegon:

The next evening they came upon a huge Valyrian sphinx crouched beside the road. It had a dragon’s body and a woman’s face.
“A dragon queen,” said Tyrion. “A pleasant omen.”
“Her king is missing.” Illyrio pointed out the smooth stone plinth on which the second sphinx once stood, now grown over with moss and flowering vines. “The horselords built wooden wheels beneath him and dragged him back to Vaes Dothrak.”
That is an omen too, thought Tyrion, but not as hopeful.

I feel like the Sphinx that Aemon was referring to is more of an omen referencing a dragon queen or dragon king (i.e a Targaryen)

Edited by Harald Hard-Ruler, 13 December 2012 - 01:40 AM.

[TheGriffonReborn]

Seeing as how ADWD ends, on a re-read I took that passage to mean that Dany will find her King in Vaes Dothrak,

[cuendillar]

It's not impossible that Aemon knew of Alleras. Both she and Marwyn talk with deep respect about Aemon, although he seems near-forgotten by most in the Citadel. Marwyn may very well have kept in touch, just as we know Rhaegar did in his time. He as, after all, very willing to take up where Aemon left off by just dropping everything to run of to Daenerys. That he never wrote to Aemon defies logic.

The only issue really is that Aemon is blind, so would have needed someone to read and write his correspondence for him - but wouldn't Sam then have been aware of his private correspondence then?

[Know Face Man]

The Sphinx Aemon is referring to is not Alleras.

[A wilding]

Ser Leftwich, on 13 December 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

Why would Aemon know who Alleras is?  How would they have ever have met?

We know that Marwyn was spying on Aemon using the glass candles. We also know that the glass candles enable remote communication, visions and dreams. It would seem possible that Marwyn knows Alleras is Sarella - I can see him enjoying the other Archmaesters being hoodwinked by her.

So maybe when Marwyn was reading Aemon, some garbled information was transmitted the other way. Enough for Aemon to make a cryptic reference to Alleras in his delirium.

[Dornish Whine]

Aemon doesn't know Alleras - but clearly GRRM put that in there as an allusion to her (Sarella).  It is a case of 'dramatic irony' that Aemon's words apply directly to another character he has never met.

I would interpret the statement "The sphinx is the riddle" as another way of saying "look with your eyes".  To answer a question or riddle correctly, you need to take into account the one who is asking as much as what they ask.