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Stark Warging - DId Ned, his brothers and Father know


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#1 Quiet Isle

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:11 PM

Who among you think that Ned and his father/brothers were wargers and kept it secret.

Generally, if that isn't true, and it had become forgotten or weak, or just that there weren't any direwolves around, the question becomes did the direwolf below the wall reawaken the ability, or was it always there (I"m thinking always there, but needed development). but also, did Ned and his ancestors know. If so, why didn't he tell his children?

#2 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:13 PM

I can't see it being an issue before the dragons were born. The magic had been gone for a long time before then.

#3 Quiet Isle

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:16 PM

I can't see it being an issue before the dragons were born. The magic had been gone for a long time before then.

you could argue that. But bloodraven was there before the dragons were born. Explain his magical presence.

#4 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:17 PM

you could argue that. But bloodraven was there before the dragons were born. Explain his magical presence.

He's not a Stark.

#5 Lord Bronn Stokeworth

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:17 PM

I don't think Ned, his siblings, or father had it. There is no reason to believe you can only have it if a parents has it.

Just that someone in your line must have had it. I do think they had it sense birth, but it didn't awaken until later. Either the Old Gods decided they needed the Ned's children or when magic began waking up (which came in full force with the dragons, but it had already begun waking up before then), it manifested itself in the younger generation.

Crackpot: It also awaken in Ned and Ben. However, as they didn't have a companion animal, it did not manifest (Sansa may still manifest and there is theory she already has but didn't know it, but still, long after her father and uncle died/went missing).

#6 Quiet Isle

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:19 PM

He's not a Stark.

I recognize that, but if magic only came about as you argued with the dragons, then there is still something metaphysical going on before they hatched.

#7 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:26 PM

I recognize that, but if magic only came about as you argued with the dragons, then there is still something metaphysical going on before they hatched.


Bloodraven is a bastard Targaryan. If there's something to the theory that Targs have a certain affinity for magic, then maybe that explains how his powers continued to function (although probably in diminished capacity) even after the dragons were dead.

#8 TheGreyKraken

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:27 PM

The magic was definitely there before even the dragons hatched but the birth of dragons made the current magic stronger in my opinion.

#9 Quiet Isle

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:29 PM

Bloodraven is a bastard Targaryan. If there's something to the theory that Targs have a certain affinity for magic, then maybe that explains how his powers continued to function (although probably in diminished capacity) even after the dragons were dead.

as could have the warging ability with the Starks.

#10 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:30 PM

The magic was definitely there before even the dragons hatched but the birth of dragons made the current magic stronger in my opinion.

I donno, sounds to me like magic was pretty dormant. Pyromancers and maesters had lots of spells that didn't work, that maybe never worked. When they start working again, nobody's more surprised then the so-called "mages."

#11 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:31 PM

as could have the warging ability with the Starks.


Do we have any evidence of post-dragon warging from anyone except bloodraven?

#12 TheGreyKraken

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:39 PM

Do we have any evidence of post-dragon warging from anyone except bloodraven?

Varamyr Six Skins, Haggon etc.

#13 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:40 PM

Varamyr Six Skins, Haggon etc.


The dragons are here now. How long have their powers been working?

#14 Apple Martini

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 09:43 PM

I don't think Ned or anyone else in his immediate family was a warg. I believe that's kind of the point: It's a big deal for six kids in one family to all be wargs, and it means something. It's important. The significance of that is diminished if lol jk everyone can do it. Now, I think that warging may have once been more common and/or have been present before in the Stark family (i.e. the Kings of Winter with their direwolves), sure. But not for some time and not with Ned, his parents or his siblings.

I also don't buy that "omgz the dragons brought magic back" nonsense. I think that the dragons are a result of magic coming back around in a cyclical format, not the cause. The dragons may have helped increase fire magic or made spells stronger or whatever, but that was still "there" before they hatched. Beyond that, it's a correlation/causation issue. And of course, Bloodraven was a warg, there were wargs beyond the Wall, the Children of the Forest, other possible skinchangers in the North (a few of us have bounced around the idea of animal sigils in the North pointing to creatures that family is known to skinchange into; e.g. bears and Mormonts), and all six Stark kids' births predated the dragons hatching. I don't see where the dragons' return correlates in any way to warging/skinchanging, much less acts as a cause.

The dragons are here now. How long have their powers been working?


Varamyr had been warging since he was a child, a hell of long time before the damn dragons hatched. And obviously Haggon had been warging since even before that, given that he's the one who fostered Varamyr.

Edited by Apple Martini, 16 December 2012 - 09:45 PM.


#15 Dr. Pepper

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:32 PM

Just to add, skinchangers are pretty rare. Bloodraven tells Bran that only one in a thousand is a skinchanger.

#16 Ruby Chevrolet

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:48 PM

Just to add, skinchangers are pretty rare. Bloodraven tells Bran that only one in a thousand is a skinchanger.

I wonder about that. Does it mean good King Robb Stark had 20+ skinchangers in his army?

#17 Southron_Ambitions

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:51 PM

I think that all Starks are skin changers, and that explains how they have held on to control of the North for 8000 years while familes like the Targaryens couldn't even hold the Iron Throne for 300.

#18 Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 10:52 PM

I can't see it being an issue before the dragons were born. The magic had been gone for a long time before then.

They were wargs before the dragons were born.

#19 Apple Martini

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:00 PM

I think that all Starks are skin changers, and that explains how they have held on to control of the North for 8000 years while familes like the Targaryens couldn't even hold the Iron Throne for 300.


While I think that warging probably does/did "run in the family," I think it's a stretch to say that ALL Starks are skinchangers. That's kind of why being a skinchanger is a big deal, it's rare.

#20 The Idiots Lantern

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:02 PM

It's a big deal for six kids in one family to all be wargs, and it means something.


ARE all six of them Wargs? We never heard of Robb warging, or Sansa, and with Rikkon it's too early to tell.

It sounds like magic always existed North of the Wall, far from civilization. It returning now is important. I wonder how much of the important stuff has been lost. Something had to be really, really scary to warrant the construction of a wall like that....