Historical events and people that are reflected in the story

[OberynBlackfyre]

Yesterday I went to the Cleopatra exhibit at the Los Angeles science center, and was struck by the story of her life, and the way Egypt and Rome clashed, yet relied upon each other. I also feel like I had heard this story before.

I can't help but to feel that Cleopatra has a huge hand in the way GRRM wrote Cersei. She was beautiful, and through her intelligence, beauty, and strategy she hoddwinked two of the most powerful men in the World at the time. That, and she excelled in chemistry when it came to cosmetics and the use of poison which she used to eradicate those who would oppose her. All this she did with a "sweet as honey with poison underneath" demeanor.

There was also an event where she gloated that she could spend Marc Antony under the table, and to prove it she dropped a priceless gold and pearl earring into her wine goblet and drained it until it was empty.

The Egyptians also had the tradition of marrying brother to sister, mother to son, etc. This was seen from Cleopatras ancestors, but it started when her ancestor Alexander the Great conquered.....who else do we know that was a conqueror and married sisters?

I also went to a museum recently that had a huge display on the Tudor lineage, and I see a lot of Elizabeth I in Cersei as well. Plus just some of the whole story that began the Tudor reign (That event being the War of the Roses), is very, very much like what has happened in the history of Westeros.

In a way I can't help but feel that Westeros very much reflects England, to where Valyria is very much Egypt (the capitol Alexandria was destroyed by a "doom" of natural disasters as well), to where places like Asshai and such are predominantly Asia like.

[Buried Beneath the Wall]

Martin certainly draws from history for plot, character and setting. It is hard to miss the analogs to Western Europe in Westeros- England in particular. Furthermore, the Nine Free Cities are much like medieval Italy and the north eastern arc of the Mediterranean, though I think that Valyria draws more from Rome than Egypt for that reason. For example, the free cities are called the children of Valyria, and they all speak a version of Valyrian. The Italian city-states all spoke various forms of Latin that slowly morphed into the six or so types of Italian by the middle ages, but four hundred years after the fall of Rome they were still speaking Latin with heavily local flavor. The Valyrian roads, perfectly straight and unbroken by time, sound just like the Appian Way (which can still be driven on two thousand years after it was built). The dragons were not Valyria's only strength, the Valyrian Legions were the primary means of holding the empire together. With its slave market and its pyramids, I think Slaver's Bay resembles Egypt more than Valyria, though inspiration certainly comes from many springs.

[The Titan's Legitimate Son]

The Crimean Khanate seems a lot like the Dothraki (more Vaes Dothrak than nomad though).

"The Crimeans engaged in frequent raids into the Danubian principalities, Poland-Lithuania, and Muscovy. For each captive, the khan received a fixed share (savğa) of 10% or 20%. The campaigns by Crimean forces categorize into "sefers", officially declared military operations led by the khans themselves, and çapuls, raids undertaken by groups of noblemen, sometimes illegally because they contravened treaties concluded by the khans with neighbouring rulers. For a long time, until the early 18th century, the khanate maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. Caffa was one of the best known and significant trading ports and slave markets."

The underlined bit is also a lot like the bribery used by the Free Cities on the Dothraki.

[RoamingRonin]

Khan is title for Mongol military leaders. It's just one letter from being Khal.

The War of the Roses was a huge inspiration for the series. It was a real life war for a throne fought by House York and House Lancaster. http://en.wikipedia....rs_of_the_Roses

The princes in the tower are definitely the inspiration behind Bran and Rickon's story arc: http://en.wikipedia....es_in_the_Tower

Lady Wu - the first lady emperor - reminds me of both Cersei and the Queen of Thorns. She did whatever she could to rise to power, some even believe she killed her own baby and blamed a rival just to have the rival eliminated: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

A lot of these people are nearly exact duplicates of Wars of the Roses figures.

Robert = Edward IV

Cersei = Margaret of Anjou crossed with Elizabeth Woodville

Stannis = Richard III

Aerys II = Henry VI

Jaime and Tyrion = Anthony Woodville

Mace Tyrell and Tywin Lannister = Warwick the Kingmaker

Margaery Tyrell = Anne and Isabel Neville

Joffrey = Edward V crossed with Edward of Westminster

Myrcella Baratheon = Elizabeth of York, sort of

Whoever "wins" = Henry VII

Fake Aegon = Perkin Warbeck

[The Frost Wolf]

John Stark = Jon Snow.

There was a pretty interesting post on this a while back, Jon's life almost exactly mirrors an American war hero who is actually named John Stark (you can't make this stuff up).

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/77403-jon-snow-is-an-american-war-hero/

[The Frost Wolf]

A lot of these people are nearly exact duplicates of Wars of the Roses figures.

Robert = Edward IV

Cersei = Margaret of Anjou crossed with Elizabeth Woodville

Stannis = Richard III

Aerys II = Henry VI

Jaime and Tyrion = Anthony Woodville

Mace Tyrell and Tywin Lannister = Warwick the Kingmaker

Margaery Tyrell = Anne and Isabel Neville

Joffrey = Edward V crossed with Edward of Westminster

Myrcella Baratheon = Elizabeth of York, sort of

Whoever "wins" = Henry VII

Fake Aegon = Perkin Warbeck

Robert is more of an exact Henry VIII. When he was young, he was bold, handsome and admirable. When he was older and had been king for a while, he became very fat and was increasingly drunk for the remainder of his life. Except without the 6 wives, although I suppose that's because Henry VIII never met Cersei :laugh:

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Robert is more of an exact Henry VIII. When he was young, he was bold, handsome and admirable. When he was older and had been king for a while, he became very fat and was increasingly drunk for the remainder of his life. Except without the 6 wives, although I suppose that's because Henry VIII never met Cersei :laugh:

Aegon IV is more like Henry VIII (and pious Naerys is a lot like Catherine of Aragon). Edward IV was like that, too — started out very young and fit and then let himself go. He also fathered a ton of bastards like Robert did.

[Elba the Intoner]

Margaery's situation being accused of various infidelities and her arrest on Maidens Day (which reminds me of May day) seems to be almost exactly what happened to Anne Boleyn. Cersei even thought that she'd like to find a way to accuse Loras along with the other men, and Anne's brother was accused for real. I'm thinking things aren't looking so good for Margaery and her trial right now.

[OberynBlackfyre]

Margaery's situation being accused of various infidelities and her arrest on Maidens Day (which reminds me of May day) seems to be almost exactly what happened to Anne Boleyn. Cersei even thought that she'd like to find a way to accuse Loras along with the other men, and Anne's brother was accused for real. I'm thinking things aren't looking so good for Margaery and her trial right now.

I was kinda loathe to bring that up, but Margery almost has the exact Anne Boleyn story. In the beginning, Renly was already going to try and bring her to court to sway Robert away from his wife.

And of course Mace Tyrell plays the father that is oh so quick to sell his daughter for political favor. I wonder if she will end up just as dead as Anne did.

[Ludd]

Joffrey is very like the Dauphin of France who married war of the roses descendent and treated her badly

[Ludd]

There is a touch of Anne Boleyn in Margaery

I see NOTHING of Elizabeth I in Cersai. Elizabeth I was a wise and careful ruler who was perhaps cantankerous in old age but basically shrewd

I would see Sansa as closer to the Elizabeth 1 figure - initially innocent but learning rapidly.

Tyrion I see as Richard III, although Stannis has some similarity.

Robb and Jon seem a good match for Henry V and his brother John of Bedford though Bran might fill the role of John if he returns.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

To look at some other Targaryen kings ...

Aegon I: William I (obviously)

Maegor I: William II

Jaehaerys I: Henry III

Viserys I: Henry I

Aegon II: Stephen

Rhaenyra: Matilda

Aegon III: Henry II

Viserys II: John

Daeron I: Richard I or Henry V

Baelor I: Henry VI

Aegon IV: Henry VIII

Naerys: Catherine of Aragon

Daeron II: Edward III

Aerys I: Richard II

Aegon V: Edward III

Aerys II: Henry VI (with violence)

Aenys I, Maekar I and Jaehaerys II are harder to pin down.

[OberynBlackfyre]

To look at some other Targaryen kings ...

Aegon I: William I (obviously)

Maegor I: William II

Jaehaerys I: Henry III

Viserys I: Henry I

Aegon II: Stephen

Rhaenyra: Matilda

Aegon III: Henry II

Viserys II: John

Daeron I: Richard I or Henry V

Baelor I: Henry VI

Aegon IV: Henry VIII

Naerys: Catherine of Aragon

Daeron II: Edward III

Aerys I: Richard II

Aegon V: Edward III

Aerys II: Henry VI (with violence)

Aenys I, Maekar I and Jaehaerys II are harder to pin down.

shit, I think some of the Targaryen kings should be compared more to the Huns or other such Barbarian tribes. Some were great, noble, and some were just really horrible, bloodthirsty, bat shit crazy moronic people

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

shit, I think some of the Targaryen kings should be compared more to the Huns or other such Barbarian tribes. Some were great, noble, and some were just really horrible, bloodthirsty, bat shit crazy moronic people

Considering that the main Baratheon/Targaryen conflict is heavily based on the Wars of the Roses, it makes sense to me to look for parallels of other English monarchs in the past. Plenty of "batshit crazy moronic" English kings, too.

[OberynBlackfyre]

Considering that the main Baratheon/Targaryen conflict is heavily based on the Wars of the Roses, it makes sense to me to look for parallels of other English monarchs in the past. Plenty of "batshit crazy moronic" English kings, too.

true. However I also look at the Targaryens as harboring a lot of Egyptian history within their story as well. And also to me the battle that reflect War of Roses completely was the first Dance of Dragons but I can definitely see how Roberts Rebellion can reflect it as well.

[Minstral]

Robb has a similarity with Edward from house York. They both lost their fathers (who were both beheaded) and won great victories despite their age. In fact Edward married an impoverished noble when his greatest supporter, the earl of Warwick, was in favor of him marrying the daughter of the French king. Both were betrayed when they married these girls, but Edward managed to defeat the Earl at the battle of Barnet while Robb died.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

true. However I also look at the Targaryens as harboring a lot of Egyptian history within their story as well. And also to me the battle that reflect War of Roses completely was the first Dance of Dragons but I can definitely see how Roberts Rebellion can reflect it as well.

The Targaryens are more like Normans. The Normans were descendants of old Franco-Roman families in the same way that the Targs are Valyrian. The only resemblance to Egyptian history with the Targs I see is the brother-sister marriages.

The Dance of the Dragons is almost an exact mirror of the conflict between Stephen and Matilda, not the Wars of the Roses. The king (Henry I, Viserys I) wanted his daughter (Matilda, Rhaenyra) named heir, the nobles rallied around a male (Stephen, Aegon II; Stephen was Matilda's cousin and not her brother, that's really the only difference). The guy defeated the woman, but in the end her son (Henry II, Aegon III) became king.

The Wars of the Roses was a dynastic battle between two cousin houses (York and Lancaster) that shared a common ancestor (Edward III). In this story, House Baratheon are the Yorks and the Targs are the Lancasters, broadly, with Aegon V being the primary common ancestor.

[Ludd]

Maiden's day is NOT like May day which was an old fertility festival - the absolute opposite of maiden's day - actually it was maiden no more day. I country England just 150 years ago May day was a bigger festival than Xmas

[OberynBlackfyre]

The Targaryens are more like Normans. The Normans were descendants of old Franco-Roman families in the same way that the Targs are Valyrian. The only resemblance to Egyptian history with the Targs I see is the brother-sister marriages.

The Dance of the Dragons is almost an exact mirror of the conflict between Stephen and Matilda, not the Wars of the Roses. The king (Henry I, Viserys I) wanted his daughter (Matilda, Rhaenyra) named heir, the nobles rallied around a male (Stephen, Aegon II; Stephen was Matilda's cousin and not her brother, that's really the only difference). The guy defeated the woman, but in the end her son (Henry II, Aegon III) became king.

The Wars of the Roses was a dynastic battle between two cousin houses (York and Lancaster) that shared a common ancestor (Edward III). In this story, House Baratheon are the Yorks and the Targs are the Lancasters, broadly.

Interesting. I was unfamiliar with the story but that IS pretty dead on.

And I guess I shouldn't say Targs in general remind me of Egyptians, but more so Valyria, and it's inhabitants. They were definitely view with similarity that real world B.C. societies looked at the Egyptian empire. Valyria was definitely a mix of Egypt and Roman influence.