Do you think Cersei's Walk of Shame was misogynistic?

[Ser Coffee The Bold]

Because it's the picture for the month of June in the 2013 calendar.

How did you feel about it and why?

Do you think the author was joining in with the misogyny of the characters? Or was he sympathetic to Cersei?

I think the idea of making a person who has committed crimes as horrible as Cercei accountable in a way acceptable to western society is impossible in a pre-modern society. Lets be clear, none of the societies in ASOIAF are both modern and western. None of them have been informed that in the future the enlightenment will happen and that then women will gain a sense of equality to men in logical discourse.

When we look around anthropologically, not all societies give women fewer rights than men, but when tribes form and then chiefdoms and kingdoms occur, women loose. When nations occur, and then societies form, women gain a certain edge. This is not something women should point at and blame men for, because its simply not fair... when one group has cards stacked in their favor to compete against another, it shouldn't be said that the other is evil... it should simply be stated that one type gained an advantage...

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Yes, it was misogynistic.

But she deserve this. She talks about how hard a being woman, yet she sends women to Qyburn !

She'll never get my sympathy.

[Nelapsi]

The thing is she deserved it, but she didn't get it for the reasons we 'hate' her for. Hence, the question about it being misogynistic.

That's also why I felt good and bad about it, and bad about feeling good about it lol I digged the fact she was suffering, but it missed "this is for Bran *punch*, this is for Ned *punch*", etc, if you see what I mean, so I didn't feel the punishment per se.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Just wondering, am I a misogynist if I was glad that Cersei had to do a walk of shame? Note: there's no way I would have the same feeling if say, Margaery or Sansa was humiliated. It's just fun to finally see Cersei suffer. It's like the small sense of satisfaction I got when Roose presented a piece of Theon's skin to Robb at the Twins. (Of course, back then, I had no idea the extent of Theon's suffering)

And yes, to answer the OP's question, it is a very misogynistic punishment. Robert was never punished for his adultery. But I'm not going to lie by saying I didn't enjoy it a little. Just wondering what that makes me misogynistic or not.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Can't wait to see this on the show.

We probably won't, considering Lena Headey doesn't do nude scenes. We might just get a body double for some of the ass shots though, if they are going to do it.

[The BlackBear]

I think it'd be a very effective scene if we only see Cerseis face and the crowds reaction, making it incredibly claustrophobic.

I also worry about some of you, Cersei's a bitch, but the walk was truly awful. Reading it was painful.

[mcb]

We probably won't, considering Lena Headey doesn't do nude scenes. We might just get a body double for some of the ass shots though, if they are going to do it.

I keep hearing that, but the fact is she did nude scenes. "300", for one, and a few others.

[Pinkie Baelish]

I keep hearing that, but the fact is she did nude scenes. "300", for one, and a few others.

I keep hearing that, but the fact is she did nude scenes. "300", for one, and a few others.

That was years ago, though. She's almost 40, and has a young child. I read somewhere that it's in her contract that she doesn't do nude scenes. Not sure whether it's true or not, however.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

I think it'd be a very effective scene if we only see Cerseis face and the crowds reaction, making it incredibly claustrophobic.

I also worry about some of you, Cersei's a bitch, but the walk was truly awful. Reading it was painful.

Reading the Blue Bard's torture was painful too.

[ishmael]

This well describes my thoughts on the chapter. Cersei is being shamed for her sexuality in general, not for allegedly cuckolding the King with her own brother (which gets ignored by the same Septons). The scene works to me sympathize with Cersei somewhat, even though she is guilty of a great many actual deceits and crimes. She's not being punished for incest, or for attempting to murder her brother Tyrion, or for lying to implicate Margaery about alleged sexual misconduct, or for sentencing innocent people to a fate worse than death at Qyburn's hands, etc., she's being punished for having a sex life outside of marriage.

Well, her relationship with her brother is not known to the HS, but her relationship with the Kettleback are know to the HS. Her station in life does not allow her the same freedoms as lesser women. Her part of the agreement for becoming Queen is that she will only bear the King's children. While it is not widely known that she has had 3 kids with her brother, it is known that she took that chance with Kettleback. Robert would not have faced the same punishment because no one in the land has equal power to the King, but the Queen is not the King. She gave the HS power that is second to only the King, and despite her speaking for and advising the King, she is not the King and does not have the same protections as the King. She also initiated the accusations against M, and it became very obvious that she used sex as a reward for Kettleback making his accusations. Was the punishment misogynistic? Yes, it was. The society that it occurred in was misogynistic. Does that make it wrong in the time and place that it occurred? No. Does this make the author misogynistic? No, it means that he can accurately write historical punishments into his novels, and use them to make his readers feel sympathy for characters many of them hated previously.

We know all of her plots and sins, but the HS does not at this point, so it isn't realistic to think that he would punish her for what he doesn't know about. He is punishing her for having sex with men who are not her husband while she is acting as Queen. Her punishment for her her accusations against M have yet to be dealt out. Many of her other plots have not come to light.

[Nelapsi]

We probably won't, considering Lena Headey doesn't do nude scenes. We might just get a body double for some of the ass shots though, if they are going to do it.

That means absolutely nothing, IMO. Tarantino's tilt ups etc are ways they can use a body double + Lena's face to make it work.

[The Killer Snark]

Lena Headey has done at least one nude scene (in Dead Heat, which was full frontal) so I'm not ruling out the possibility she might be talked around.

[Roza Ahai]

Well, her relationship with her brother is not known to the HS, but her relationship with the Kettleback are know to the HS. Her station in life does not allow her the same freedoms as lesser women. Her part of the agreement for becoming Queen is that she will only bear the King's children. While it is not widely known that she has had 3 kids with her brother, it is known that she took that chance with Kettleback. Robert would not have faced the same punishment because no one in the land has equal power to the King, but the Queen is not the King. She gave the HS power that is second to only the King, and despite her speaking for and advising the King, she is not the King and does not have the same protections as the King. She also initiated the accusations against M, and it became very obvious that she used sex as a reward for Kettleback making his accusations. Was the punishment misogynistic? Yes, it was. The society that it occurred in was misogynistic. Does that make it wrong in the time and place that it occurred? No. Does this make the author misogynistic? No, it means that he can accurately write historical punishments into his novels, and use them to make his readers feel sympathy for characters many of them hated previously.

We know all of her plots and sins, but the HS does not at this point, so it isn't realistic to think that he would punish her for what he doesn't know about. He is punishing her for having sex with men who are not her husband while she is acting as Queen. Her punishment for her her accusations against M have yet to be dealt out. Many of her other plots have not come to light.

Totally agree. I had the same thoughts. Martin discribing this Walk actually based on a historic event. Edward's paramore walked naked through the crowd afteer the kings death.

Cercei commited a crime by usurping the crown from Baratheons. Stannis sent letters about the bastard on the throne. How did it turn out the HS doesn't know this? He would be use it in the trial against Cercei.

[mcb]

Totally agree. I had the same thoughts. Martin discribing this Walk actually based on a historic event. Edward's paramore walked naked through the crowd afteer the kings death.

Cercei commited a crime by usurping the crown from Baratheons. Stannis sent letters about the bastard on the throne. How did it turn out the HS doesn't know this? He would be use it in the trial against Cercei.

Everyone and his dog know about Stannis' accusations, and they are included in the charges brought against Cersei. Whether they're true will be decided between Robert Strong and the Faith's champion.

[Theda Baratheon]

Yes, it was absolutely misogynistic but this is a misogynistic world and I think it's very, very unfair to GRRM to start accusing him of hating women and delighting in Cersei's punishment.

Cersei did deserve to be punished, and this punishment is about the most humiliating misogynistic punishment she could have received I never got the impression GRRM was 'delighting' in Cersei's punishment. I think this is a very good scene and written to that we can feel sympathy for Cersei; a lot of her power came from her beauty, but naked - she is just another Mother with stretch marks and breasts that are starting too sag, no matter how attractive she is, this symbol of her naked flesh and naked body brings her down to the level of all of the commoners and other human beings, when before she was a Queen, close to a Goddess.

Yes, I felt uncomfortable reading this, but you're supposed to.

Did I thin Cersei deserved this? She did deserve to be punished yes.

The fact of the matter is this is a medieval type fantasy story. You just can't say things like ''she was being slut-shamed'' in this context, because she was a Queen and to be a Queen in this type of society you can't have sex freely, with anyone you want.

I'm very much a staunch feminist, or rather a humanitarian is a better word, I strongly believe in equality, but you just can't apply that sort of mind-set to this world.

It's ridiculous to deny this was a misogynistic punishment because that is the whole point, Cersei is made to feel like just another weak women (in her eyes) and in everyone else's.

Now, I wonder how she is going to act in future.

The scene serves it's purpose of making us view Cersei as a human being and to enable us to feel empathy for her, so I really don't like the OP's implied point of GRRM somehow writing this with glee.

[Pinkie Baelish]

There's a couple of lines in the chapter where for the first time, you see that Cersei realises that despite whatever title she calls herself, in reality, she's just a weak, aging woman, and not the lioness she claims to be. It's a nice moment of self-realization.

"I should not have done this. I was their queen, but now they’ve seen, they’ve seen, they’ve seen. I should never have let them see. Gowned and crowned, she was a queen. Naked, bloody, limping, she was only a woman, not so very different from their wives, more like their mothers than their pretty little maiden daughters. What have I done?"

Hence, I think the walk of shame works for Cersei's development as a character, since it finally opens her eyes to her own delusions.

[Theda Baratheon]

There's a couple of lines in the chapter where for the first time, you see that Cersei realises that despite whatever title she calls herself, in reality, she's just a weak, aging woman, and not the lioness she claims to be. It's a nice moment of self-realization.

"I should not have done this. I was their queen, but now they’ve seen, they’ve seen, they’ve seen. I should never have let them see. Gowned and crowned, she was a queen. Naked, bloody, limping, she was only a woman, not so very different from their wives, more like their mothers than their pretty little maiden daughters. What have I done?"

Hence, I think the walk of shame works for Cersei's development as a character, since it finally opens her eyes to her own delusions.

I think it works for her character too. Whether or not it completely dispels all of her delusions is another question, however.

[Ser Lepus]

I think it works for her character too. Whether or not it completely dispels all of her delusions is another question, however.

I think it will mostly make her change her prefered tools. She used to rely heavily on seduction and on pushing rank ("I'm the queen!, I'm a Lannister!, do as I say!"), assuming everybody would see her as she wanted to be seen and respect her royal title no matter what. Now she will be subtler, try to stay clean, use bribes and promises of titles and power, and probably use Robert Strong and other hired thugs as enforcers.

She will fail, of course, because she's an amateur in the game of subtle manipulation, when compared to Varys, Littlefinger, Olenna, Doran and even Lord Wyman Manderly.

[Zupoleon]

I think it will mostly make her change her prefered tools. She used to rely heavily on seduction and on pushing rank ("I'm the queen!, I'm a Lannister!, do as I say!"), assuming everybody would see her as she wanted to be seen and respect her royal title no matter what. Now she will be subtler, try to stay clean, use bribes and promises of titles and power, and probably use Robert Strong and other hired thugs as enforcers.

She will fail, of course, because she's an amateur in the game of subtle manipulation, when compared to Varys, Littlefinger, Olenna, Doran and even Lord Wyman Manderly.

Personally, I don't think she has much of a leg to stand on at this point, besides relying on Robert Strong for protection. She's lost her intimidation factor, and I don't think anyone will take her bribes or promises seriously going forward either. The Lannisters have totally lost their grip in KL, she no longer has a father, brother, uncle to back her up and clean up her messes. Cersei's days of relevancy are gone.

[Ser Lepus]

Personally, I don't think she has much of a leg to stand on at this point, besides relying on Robert Strong for protection. She's lost her intimidation factor, and I don't think anyone will take her bribes or promises seriously going forward either. The Lannisters have totally lost their grip in KL, she no longer has a father, brother, uncle to back her up and clean up her messes. Cersei's days of relevancy are gone.

She has gold, if she manages to keep control of the Rock, And she's still the mother of the king, which could allow her to make some promises in his name. She is far from the top of the food chain, but she could play the game at a lower level, if she were smarter.

That said, I don't think she will manage anything relevant, since her opponents are so much better than her at the game.