1053 replies to this topic

[G Vico]

Plus Harry the Heir suddenly shows up in the books, an obvious reference to one of our moderators.  Three cheers for Harry the Heir!

[And no chicken or the egg debates, please.  Harry is obviously the chicken AND the egg.]

[hauberk]

Ran, on Nov 28 2005, 15.56, said:

I think we need some connection between House Grell's arms and Mike Grell. Otherwise, I think it's a coincidence.

Ran,

I've done some diggin and can't find anything substantive that links the imagery or the colors between House and Writer/Artist.  However, I did note that Mike takes specific pride in his detailing of weapons in his artwork - at least one site referred to him as something of a weaponsmaster.  It's a tenuous tie, but it does link him with Desmond Grell.

[TehipiteTom]

Nobody has mentioned the most obvious one:  the "R. R." in Martin's name is an obvious reference to Tolkien.
;)

[Arataniello]

Ran, on Nov 15 2005, 18.26, said:

[*] Lord Titus Peake: A reference to Mervyn Peake and his seminal work of fantasy,
the Gormenghast trilogy, starting with Titus Groan.

I aslo wonder if "Ghaston Grey" is based on Gormemghast - both are dreary old places, although the former must be relatively small since it is in the middle of the Sea of Dorne, and the latter is vast.

Aratan

[sologdin]

couple potentially nifty ones here:

SPOILER: the one

compare-- "The Cinnamon Wind was a swan ship out of Tall Trees Town on the Summer Isles, where men were black, women were wanton, and even the gods were strange" (penultimate Samwell chapter)

with-- "I have crossed many mountains and many rivers, and trodden many plains, even into the far countries of Rhun and Harad where the stars are strange" (aragorn in LotR)

curious.  swan ships from the teleri, too?  at least tolkien's casual racism doesn't seem to exist in martin, though strange things tend to be afoot when we're talking about some black folks in all these books.

SPOILER: the other

brienne's early companion shadrich, the mad mouse, is roughly the same type of unsavory hireling evident in mieville's shadrach of PSS, though the physical descriptions differ, and it would be more apt to associate that character with moths than with mouses.  heh.  perhaps tolkien's shadrach, of the tower of cirirth ungol is better?  I know not.  or is it more likely that all three draw on the similarly named character from the book of daniel?  no idea.  will have to wait until the martin character develops further, especially vis-a-vis furnaces.

Edited by sologdin, 03 December 2005 - 01:00 AM.

[Tern]

Do Hedge Knight references count?

SPOILER: AFFC

Brienne asks the shield-painter to replicate the design of Dunk's shield. "...the sight of it took her back through the long years, to the cool dark of her father's armory. She remembered how she'd run her fingertips across the cracked and fading paint, over the green leaves of the tree, and along the path of the falling star." p140, US edition.

Maester Aemon also drops a few references to Dunk and Egg here and there, but I don't have the page numbers for those.

[Ashara Stark]

Three more possible nods:

In AGoT, in the chapter in which Tyrion choses trial by combat in the Eirye, Tyrion thinks of Jaime that

Quote

His brother never untied a knot when he could slash it in two with his sword.

which I think is a reference to Alexander the Great and the Gordian knot.

The other two are from A Feast for Crows:

SPOILER: AFfC

In the Cersei chapters in which she is presented with the head of the sparrow, she says that Tyrion could be hiding in Baelor's Sept for all we know, swinging on the bell ropes to make that awful din. That reminds me of Quasimodo who is the bells ringer in the cathedral in Victor Hugo's "The hunchback of Notre Dame"

SPOILER: AFfC

In Asha's chapter, the Kraken's daugther, there are two scythes hanging over the seat of the Lord of Harlaw in Ten Towers, which I think can be a nod to Damocle's sword

[Isis]

Ashara Stark, on Dec 6 2005, 17.06, said:

Three more possible nods:

In AGoT, in the chapter in which Tyrion choses trial by combat in the Eirye, Tyrion thinks of Jaime that  which I think is a reference to Alexander the Great and the Gordian knot.

Yup.  I thought that too when I passed it on my current re-read of AGOT.  So which of Jaime's accomplishments mighy count as something to which he alone had the solution for?  Getting rid of the King I suppose!

Happy Ent, on Nov 16 2005, 14.13, said:

Jon says "You're a sweet fool, Sam" to Samwell. The exact same words are used by Frodo to Sam. (This would benefit from page references...)

Many people see parallels between Frodo and Samwise, and Jon and Samwell.  I can even believe that Frodo said similar words to Sam.  But I don't believe he ever used those exact words.  'Sweet' is an adjective that Martin seems fond of, Ned says it to his daughters frequently.  But it doesn't seem like a Tolkien, or Frodo-esque adjective.  I'll stand humbly corrected if anyone can show me a LOTR page reference...

[Namirsolo]

Hmm.. I'm looking for the "You're a sweet fool, Sam." and all I can find is Frodo saying "You're a fool, Frodo Baggins." in book One Chapter 8. I don't see him calling Sam a fool anywhere, though.

[erewyn]

Happy Ent, on Nov 16 2005, 06.13, said:

Jon says "You're a sweet fool, Sam" to Samwell. The exact same words are used by Frodo to Sam. (This would benefit from page references...)

Sam castigates himself for a fool a few times during the last halt before the Orodruin.  And himself again and Frodo a "great fool" in HoME VII's version of the breaking of the fellowship.   I'm pretty certain Frodo never says it to him.  Could it be movieverse?

[Roose Bolton's Pet Leech]

I think the passage describing how Tywin ruled the realm, but Joanna ruled Tywin owes something to I, Claudius by Robert Graves:

"Augustus ruled the world, but Livia [Augustus' wife] ruled Augustus."

(Claudius himself seems to be a big influence in terms of the creation of Tyrion).

[Kingslayer]

Dany sees a ship at Qarth called Magister Manolo which looks "barely seaworthy". Manolin is the name of Hemingway's protagonist in The Old Man and the Sea.

[Roose Bolton's Pet Leech]

Kingslayer, on Dec 9 2005, 13.03, said:

Dany sees a ship at Qarth called Magister Manolo which looks "barely seaworthy". Manolin is the name of Hemingway's protagonist in The Old Man and the Sea.

To be pedantic, Santiago is the name of the protagonist. Manolin is the name of his friend, the little boy.

[Kingslayer]

Ah, yes. Forgive me, it's been some time since last I read it. (I understand your pedantism; I'm the same way sometimes.)

[Ashara Stark]

Another one:
In ASoS, when Bran is in the Nightfort, Hodor throws a slate to the well and Bran says:

Quote

"You shouldn't have done that. You don't know what's down
there. You might have hurt something, or ... or woken something up."

I think that whole scene is an homage to Pippin throwing a stone into the well in the mines of Moria awakening the balrog. Actually, when Sam comes out from the well I expected him to be a balrog  :D

[The Mance]

Quote

SPOILER: AFfC

The lord of the House is Lord Trebor, whose name when reversed reveals "Robert".

Trebor, pronounced "Très bore".  I think Martin's double entendre is both clear and deliberate.  ;)

[Galactus]

Quote

In Asha's chapter, the Kraken's daugther, there are two scythes hanging over the seat of the Lord of Harlaw in Ten Towers, which I think can be a nod to Damocle's sword

Two crossed scythes is also Susan Sto-Helit's (of Discworld fame) Coat of Arms.

RE: House Grell. Not sure if it has got anything to do with anything but a Grell is a D&D monster, a kind of fying brain with tentacles.

[Kat]

I was browsing the used record store earlier and came across a band called Marillion--at first I was excited because they might have been a ref. to GRRM, but some of their records were copyrighted 1988. Anyone heard this band, or know if GRRM might be referencing them in the name of his singer? (I was too cheap to buy any.)

[Seven Pointed Star]

Charles Martel was the grandfather of Charlemagne, reunited the Franks and added Aquitaine & Burgundy to his realm.  He also won the Battle of Tours (732), which halted the Muslims/Moors from advancing from Spain into Frankish territory.

[Tyrionnosaurus Rex]

Quote

...cockles and mussels...

BranTheBuilder, on Nov 26 2005, 10.35, said:

KoN, I'd been thinking the same!

Sorry this response is about a month late, but I had wanted to bring it up myself and forgotten.  I'm 99.9% sure this was a genuine reference and not a coincidence.