15 replies to this topic

[lucaszc]

Hey guys! I've been thinking about the marriages at the ASOIAF world, all the alliances and so on... But I couldn't see a reason for a marriage between the heir of the Iron Throne and a woman from Essos, like Aerys was intending to do when he sent Lord Steffon to Essos.
At first, I thought about Doran and Lady Mellario from Norvos, but it came to me that their marriage was for love. So, what would the advantages be for the Targaryens if Rhaegar married a woman from Essos? And the disadvantages?

[Makes No Sansa]

Advantages: They were trying to find a Valyrian woman who was noble enough to be regarded as a fine match for the Crown Prince. Steffon didn't find it, so Rhaegar was married to Elia. Rhaegar didn't have any sister he could marry, and they wanted to keep their blood pure.

Disadvantages: There doesn't seem to be any. The crown is supposed to be strong enough to face any rebellion Well, the main disadvantage would be that in case a rebellion happened, the Iron Throne wouldn't have any sure "friend". Elia ensured Dorne's support. I guess if Lord Steffon had had a daughter, she would have been married to Rhaegar.

[lucaszc]

But that would be only about keeping the blood pure, not about building alliances, right?

[Ser Wun Wun]

The search for a bride overseas really doesn't make much sense to me either.  Since the Targs had no dragons to keep the Lords of Westeros in line anymore, you would think they would have wanted to secure a kingdom's loyalty via marriage.

I suppose maybe they were worried that marrying into one kingdom would alienate the others?  That is the best explanation that I can come up with.  In a way it kind of did, since rejecting Cersei (and "stealing" Tywin's heir) cost Aerys the Westerlands.

[lucaszc]

Aerys as mad as he was, and having faced a revolt on Dunkesdale, would've been wiser on forging alliances with the Tyrells, Tullies (and I know that stops on the whole story that they weren't kings before, but, to secure yourself on the Iron Throne, everything is on account) or even Lannisters (not rejecting Cersei). Dorne was the most sure friend they had, and instead of building other "friendships", they held on to one, and that costed them the Iron Throne.

[E-Ro]

Well the targs were never the sharpest bunch....

[kissdbyfire]

Plenty of Lysenis with the blood of old Valyria...

[Makes No Sansa]

kissdbyfire, on 27 December 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Plenty of Lysenis with the blood of old Valyria...

Indeed, but none of those whores is noble enough. Maybe a girl of one of the Elephants or Tigers families would have made a good match. The fact is Steffon didn't find any suitable girl.




I think Aerys ordered this out of madness.

Edited by Makes No Sansa, 27 December 2012 - 08:41 AM.

[kissdbyfire]

Makes No Sansa, on 27 December 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Indeed, but none of those whores is noble enough. Maybe a girl of one of the Elephants or Tigers families would have made a good match. The fact is Steffon didn't find any suitable girl.




I think Aerys ordered this out of madness.

Isn't it a leap to assume that all Lyseni women are whores?
Furthermore, he didn't find a suitable match but he wouldn't have known there were none to be found unless he went there to search for one.

Edited by kissdbyfire, 27 December 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[Makes No Sansa]

kissdbyfire, on 27 December 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

Isn't it a leap to assume that all Lyseni women are whores?
Furthermore, he didn't find a suitable match but he wouldn't have known there were none to be found unless he went there to search for one.

Hahahaha of course it is, but there hasn't been any reference so far about Lyseni noblemen, but there have been references about Lyseni "pillow houses".

He had to go there to see if there was a girl good enough for Rhaegar, of course. It wasn't all that useless to go to the Free Cities.

[Arkantos]

Maybe they wanted to make a sort of alliance with one of the free cities, it would help secure their throne if they had the promised aid of a foreign power.

[franko99]

Ser Wun Wun, on 27 December 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

The search for a bride overseas really doesn't make much sense to me either.  Since the Targs had no dragons to keep the Lords of Westeros in line anymore, you would think they would have wanted to secure a kingdom's loyalty via marriage.

They probably still believe no one can successfully rebel to them, you know they're blood of the dragons and all that crazy shit, remember Targs think themself being above the rest, and the dragon don't answer to mens or gods...

[RedBean]

There probably wasn't any advantage other than keeping the bloodline more "pure". The Targaryens would have been better off if they'd actually tried to make alliances with the other great Houses instead of always marrying within the family.

[NitzanLeo]

I don't see how it would be stupid. They'd go get a Lyseni or a Volantine woman to keep the line Valyrian to some extent and with it they'd strengthen ties to one of the Free Cities. Why would this be strange?

[RedBean]

NitzanLeo, on 27 December 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

I don't see how it would be stupid. They'd go get a Lyseni or a Volantine woman to keep the line Valyrian to some extent and with it they'd strengthen ties to one of the Free Cities. Why would this be strange?

Are the Free Cities ruled by people of Valyrian descent? I thought they were enemies of Old Valyria or something?

Anyway, there's no reason to strengthen ties to the Free Cities. It's not like they're going to try attacking the Iron Throne. It would be much more advantageous to make alliances with the ruling Houses, since they're much more likely to try to takeover the throne. They're closer and are more likely to make alliances between themselves (like the Stark-Baratheon-Tully-Arryn alliance)

Edited by RedBean, 27 December 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[Zupoleon]

Aerys made it clear when he rebuffed Tywin's efforts to marry Cersei to Rhaegar that he viewed even the great houses of Westeros as beneath him.  Since Rhaegar didn't have a sister, it was logical to look oversees for a potential match and only settling on Elia (Dorne) when exhausting the other possibilities.  To me, these actions are an early indication of the paranoia and madness that would later consume the Mad King...

Edited by Zupoleon, 27 December 2012 - 11:14 AM.