Crazy Theory: Tywin Knew About the Purple Wedding.

[Thendel]

Pretty much what Axrendale said. The PW was an unmitigated PR disaster for the Lannisters, and Tywin would never have allowed it. If he really wanted Joffrey dead, it'd have been in a hunting accident, not poisoned in front of the entire realm.

[DavosSeaworthy]

Not likely, Tywin was a control freak and thought that he could control anybody within his family, Joff included.

[franko99]

if the Tyrells insist that Margaery marry Sansa

Wait, what?

That will be a happy union, and a shipping most readers will aprove :drool:

[TheWizard]

I think he a plan to reform Joff that he never got to do. Maybe have him kinapped or have someone beat his ass in training. I dont really know how but i think Tywin knew how fucked up Joff was and was planning a intervention type deal. Then he could of taken Tommen as a ward to mold into his perfect heir.

[Maester Gandalf]

That will be a happy union, and a shipping most readers will aprove :drool:

Wait, what?

Bugger and sod, I didn't mean to do that. Fixed now.

But yes, certain elements of fandom would definitely approve of that idea.

[Wise Fool]

Yeah, as someone said - if Tywin was willing to kill his own grandson whom he only had disdain for, why would he not kill his own son who he despised; why, indeed, would he put up with the embarrassing, whoring, drinking, cartwheeling, wise-cracking, ugly dwarf for so long, even going so far as to arrange a good marriage for him, go to war over his capture, give him power as acting Hand, etc? It's inconsistent with what we know of Tywin. And also, if he was to kill of Joff, why would he wait until Joff was king and rebellion plaguing the land? Also inconsistent with Tywin's sense of good timing. So I think this theory highly unlikely.

[Naathi Prince]

I think that if anything, Tywin allowed it, not that he plotted it. His original plan involved Jaime raising Tommen at the Rock, and Cersei married off to another region, which would have made him King in all but name.

[Lord Flashheart]

“You talk about Aerys, Grandfather, but you were scared of him.”Oh, my, hasn’t this gotten interesting? Tyrion thought.

Lord Tywin studied his grandchild in silence, gold flecks shining in his pale green eyes. “Joffrey, apologize to your grandfather,” said Cersei.

He wrenched free of her. “Why should I? Everyone knows it’s true. My father won all the battles. He killed Prince Rhaegar and took the crown, while your father was hiding under Casterly Rock.” The boy gave his grandfather a defiant look. “A strong king acts boldly, he doesn’t just talk.”

“Thank you for that wisdom, Your Grace,” Lord Tywin said, with a courtesy so cold it was like to freeze their ears off.

Tywin Doesn't seem like the kind of man to forget a slight like this. not all that unlikely he would want to extend his own rule.

[Victor227]

It's just plain too flashy for Tywin. Too visible, too much of a disaster for the Lannisters. It pretty much reminded the entire realm "Oh yeah, some random small thing and a king can die at his wedding." It doesn't add up to a healthy long-term dynasty for them. Emboldens enemies and all that. I don't think Tywin was beyond thinking he could control Joffrey with a few 'sharp lessons' at this point. And if he was to kill him, sudden illness, or a hunting accident, would definitely be the way to go.

This was a Tyrell set up. They wanted Joff to die before he could deflower Margery before half the realm.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

This makes zero sense.

Tywin is trying to strengthen his house not destroy it.

The PW destroys his plans to have Tyrion claim the North with Sansa Stark. The PW destroys a marriage that keeps Joffrey busy while Tywin wraps up the war.

The aftermath clearly shows he's not working with the Tyrell's, they offer Magaery for Tommen and Tywin wants Jaime to renounce his vows and marry her instead.

[Naathi Prince]

How does getting rid of crazy Joffrey weaken House Lannister?

[Natalia Borgia]

Tywin aure as heck wasted a LOT of money on dancing bears and swans and food just to kill Joff/ Nero. Tywin had no hand in this- he was trying to get EVERY Lannister hostage back and as Joff was a double Lannister would have made gramps ultra loyal.

I think his IMMEDIATE blame of Tyrion was that the alternative was to lose the Tyrell alliance- we will never know if he would have figured the murder plot out as Tyrion conveniently shot his in the bowels. Even Kevan was getting suspicious of the Tyrell's though and then bam he is also dead.

[Natalia Borgia]

I don't see Tywin agreeing to this- even he expresses disgust ( feigned or not) at the Frey savagery of the RW and that Cat was supposed to be a hostage not killed why would he allow his grandson to be killed? Because he is a petulant brat? The PW diminished Lannister power- the king was murdered in plain sight of the court at his wedding feast so not a very power move for the Lannisters to show they can't protect the king from plots and poisoners.

[UnFit Finlay]

I think that if anything, Tywin allowed it, not that he plotted it. His original plan involved Jaime raising Tommen at the Rock, and Cersei married off to another region, which would have made him King in all but name.

He was King in all but name anyway. Joffrey was the King and Cersei was his Regent but Tywin was absolutely the one in charge.

How does getting rid of crazy Joffrey weaken House Lannister?

Because their claim to the Throne derives entirely from Robert's assumed children and every one of them that dies weakens their claim. With Joff they always had Tommen as heir. Now they are down to Tommen and Myrcella (who is in Dorne) and if anything happens to them, Stannis is next in line to the Throne. I could see Tywin eliminating Joffrey in time but, not until after he'd had at least one child to secure the Throne. In fact, he flat out told Joffrey that getting Margaery pregnant should be his priority.

Besides, I think it sends the entirely wrong message about the Lannisters power when the King is murdered at his own wedding feast, surrounded by his guards.

[Naathi Prince]

Sure, but who do they finger for the murder? Tyrion. The evil, magical Imp. Pretty convenient actually.

As far as Tywin already being King in all but name, well, with Joffrey, he wouldn't be. King Joff would be of age soon, and at that point completely uncontrollable, and who would want to kill King Tommen? It also gives him an out of the Tyrell marriage, which frees him to marry Tommen to another House to shore up the Throne.

If Jaime doesn't decide to save his brother's life, Tywin's got everything well in hand.

[Where Boars Glow]

OP

Did you eat any of Tyrion's mushrooms?

Tywin wanted to reform Joffrey not kill him.

I agree. Tywin thought all of Joffery's problems were a result of poor parenting. He thought he could fix this.

[glowow]

Pretty much what Axrendale said. The PW was an unmitigated PR disaster for the Lannisters, and Tywin would never have allowed it. If he really wanted Joffrey dead, it'd have been in a hunting accident, not poisoned in front of the entire realm.

Could not agree more. Some of you have mentioned this, but not clearly enough. In my opinion, Tywin's main concern is his reputation. His reputation is tied to House Lannister. Either way you slice this situation, its a blow to house Lannister, at least pubically. At such a big event (one that has almost never been rivaled - 77 courses is proof enough) he wouldn't take that risk. Albeit he did a good job recovering I think, but killing Joff on a public stage like that could not have been a move Tywin would have thought was beneficial for House Lannister.

[UnFit Finlay]

Sure, but who do they finger for the murder? Tyrion. The evil, magical Imp. Pretty convenient actually.

As far as Tywin already being King in all but name, well, with Joffrey, he wouldn't be. King Joff would be of age soon, and at that point completely uncontrollable, and who would want to kill King Tommen? It also gives him an out of the Tyrell marriage, which frees him to marry Tommen to another House to shore up the Throne.

If Jaime doesn't decide to save his brother's life, Tywin's got everything well in hand.

Anybody who wants to see Myrcella or Stannis on the Throne or who wants to hurt the Lannisters and see them out of power. It doesn't need to be murder either. If Tommen trips and breaks his neck, Dorne have suddenly got control of the Seven Kingdoms. I wonder how long Tywin would last then?

Joff would've been a pain when he came of age but I think Tywin could've handled him (since, you know, Tywin had all the real power) and if he couldn't, he could eliminate him then and continue to rule through his and Margaery's children. At the very least he'd have waited until Tommen was old enough to produce an heir surely?

Tywin clearly hated Tyrion but mainly because he was embarrassed at having a dwarf for a son. Why would he want to add Kingslaying to that as well? Besides, Cersei obviously wasn't in on it and she was the one who blamed Tyrion. If someone HAD blamed the Red Viper instead, Tywin's alliances would be in pieces.

[Gendels Children]

Now, remember that Joffrey's heir is Tommen, pliant, biddable and malleable. In the case of Joffrey, Tywin has only two or so more years before he comes of age, and becomes some combined version of Aegon IV and Aerys II, with Robert sprinkles on top, that will screw the pooch and likely bring the rest of the Kingdoms into revolt.

not to be nit picky but in what was was Joffery like Aegon IV (i mean aside from the title "The Unworthy") i mean the main thing AIV did was sleep with many women, be lazy, get really fat, and legitimise his bastards causing some rather bug issues i know, but non of thoes things i could imagine Joff doing. but maybe im missing something

it is also very questionable whether tywin would have risked loosing the suport of the reach..... (did Jof die a virgin??)

lol yeah Joff DID die a virgin HAR HAR :P

[Gendels Children]

That will be a happy union, and a shipping most readers will aprove :drool:

haha aww they'd have such cute babes