A MEMORY OF LIGHT Full Spoiler Discussion Thread

[Werthead]

Apparently some bookstores are now selling copies of AMoL in the USA early (none seen in the UK yet to my knowledge) and several fansites have begun posting detailed spoiler summaries of the book, so feel free to go nuts in this thread.

Note that this thread will contain full book spoilers from every post below this one. If you've been waiting two decades to read the ending, you may want to avoid this thread.

[Sci-2]

While having lunch with the Obamas we discussed Natalie Portman's views on the series as a whole. I've got a blog post planned for Tor which will include a podcast where me, Sanderson, GRRM, and the cast of Firefly discuss the place of MoL in fantasy as a whole - I'll put Nat's views into context there, as well as give some dish on Thor 2.

Sorry, I know you're all dying to live my life but as Kanye said "There's a thousand you's, there's only one of me".

[jagilki]

I especially love the part where the Bore is revealed to of been simply created by The Creator farting.

[fionwe1987]

I'm just recording my early impressions here. I'm not putting in specific spoilers, but there will be some non specific ones:

On the whole, it was satisfying. It is relentless, and I mean relentless action. Captures the weariness of war almost perfectly. There are twists, but many major fan theories don't pan out, or not exactly the way it was envisaged. That was good. The thematic aspects of the end were very good indeed, very fitting. But there are plot aspects of the end that are somewhat dissatisfying, and could have been patched rather easily.

There were moments of pure awesome. Moments that were really emotional. Thematic parallels between major characters get even more satisfying, and in the end, it made for a good final book. I was certainly never bored, and it may be just the excitement of the finale, but there were fewer moments when I was thrown out of the narrative due to Brandon's writing than in ToM, at least.

One other good thing is that the ending is by no means going to end fan discussion. There's enough and more that is only hinted at so that fans can speculate about what happens after the events here forever. This is by no means a "neat" ending with everything resolved. And there are a few hooks that will spawn "Who killed Asmodean" levels of debate. I guarantee it.

[kcf]

While having lunch with the Obamas we discussed Natalie Portman's views on the series as a whole. I've got a blog post planned for Tor which will include a podcast where me, Sanderson, GRRM, and the cast of Firefly discuss the place of MoL in fantasy as a whole - I'll put Nat's views into context there, as well as give some dish on Thor 2.

Sorry, I know you're all dying to live my life but as Kanye said "There's a thousand you's, there's only one of me".

In all seriousness, in one of my AMOL posts that will go live on the 8th, I compare Rand to Tom Bombadil. For reals.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

His boots are yellow.

[cseresz.reborn]

Is this true?

Having recently finished the book, I found it to be generally entertaining given the sheer amount of action it has but quite bare otherwise. I imagine most will be pleased regardless, all the fireworks serving to distract from any storytelling shortcomings.

That being said, any disappointment I have is somewhat tempered by the previous two books. Which is a way of saying that I think we have been quite prepared now, given the building prior evidence, to expect something like this. One too many long running storylines have been unceremoniously put out to pasture before for us to be shocked at more of the same now.

Still, as fair warnings to those that have not read the book yet, a lot goes unresolved and even more is resolved unsatisfactorily. I wonder if this is a function of the author dying or just the original intention all along; if the latter, it seems quite perverse . . . all that time building up secondary characters and dozens upon dozens of side plots . . . and for what, exactly?

As for specific criticism: the Forsaken were once again cardboard villainy defined (nothing new there, that ship sailed long ago); some of the main characters played strangely minor roles and disappeared from the narrative completely at times; the political situation in the aftermath of the last battle went wholly unexplained; the resolution to the Ishamel/Rand conundrum read like terrible fan fiction (somewhat mitigated by its late arrival in proceedings); and the ending was just . . . not all that good (not particularly well written, not really all that emotional, kind of flat in tone and pretty sparse when you consider the series it’s closing).

As for specific praise: Egwene’s storyline actually finished on a high (and probably ended up constituting the best written character arc, from start to finish, of the six main characters); the action scenes were all a very fun read (and consider that most of the book is action, so this was really important); I liked how some developments purposely played with our expectations and how there were actual tangible consequences for many of the characters involved (although saving them all for the last book was very Harry Potterish); the stuff dealing with the Dark One and his role in the story was quite good; and, as strange as this sounds, I was happy that a lot of my big predictions were wrong, since it meant surprises along the way.

My final thought is that I am honestly befuddled that a series so justifiably infamous for its meandering storyline would have such an abrupt finish, almost comically so. I am nowhere near as invested in the series as I was fifteen years ago but remain somewhat annoyed thinking back on how much time I spent thinking on all the intricate theories and discussions that these books were seemingly designed to provoke. As it turns out, the grand majority of that stuff did not end up meaning much, if anything, in the end.

+

So, aMoL sounds like: pretty good battle scene, some over-philosophical bullshit targeted at young adult about good and evil and bunch of lose ends getting unsatisfying resolution :)?

Bittersweet, glad I got an ending but not particularly thrilled with the product. Fain?! Really like only 4pages ... He was seminal to the books in the beginning. The fight btwn moridin and rand, disappointing 3 books of build up for the black tower conflict to have such an anticlimactic resolution. The fight btwn rand and the do being resolved by insinuating removing the dark one removes mans freedom of choice seems silly to me.

[fionwe1987]

Is this true?

For the first one... I can see where the argument comes from, but I'm not sure how much I can agree. On there not being big payoffs for everything... this is true. But its a result of many things. Part of it is definitely a new author taking over. Several things, like the Oath Rod usage of Aes Sedai, male and female channelers uniting... if you read the books, you can see a lot of hints telegraphing what the ending will be. But I suspect RJ didn't absolutely write these down, so Brandon just hinted at these rather than having them come about straight away. Many of these kind of issues were also subjects of rigorous debate among the fans, so you expect the payoff to be suitably huge. But in the face of the end of the world, do you really think characters would care about these things? Take the Oath Rod. We have no conclusive end. But...

The chief character who was on the path to doing something about this was Egwene, and she died. Then they choose Cadsuane to be Amyrlin. Cadsuane is likely to drop dead any moment. Would they ask her, and would she accept, if somewhere in the background, they had already started thinking about getting rid of the Oaths? That is the indication that RJ intended for the Oaths to go away. It wasn't there either because Brandon didn't add it, or because RJ wanted us to infer it from Cadsuane being raised.

So I think we do have to temper criticism here considering these things. As for the Egwene arc, he's perfectly right.

The mirroring between her and Rand was wonderfully done. The resolution was very satisfying, and because she actually dies, was emotionally more powerful than Rand's.

But their arcs mirror each other so much, I don't see how you can say hers was good without saying Rand's was good too.

And I'd argue Perrin, etc. also got perfectly good arcs. Mat was a left on a wayside a little, but I think much of that is Brandon's discomfort in writing the character.

The second quote is a load of nonsense. The philosophical/metaphysical underpinnings of the ending are very sound. It contradicts nothing in the series, and makes excellent sense, especially given that Judeo-Christian philosophy has less influence on WoT than other philosophical systems.

The basic argument that if you force good on the world by killing the Dark One, it is no better than forcefully turning channelers to the Shadow is very sound. I had no problems with it at all.

Verin warned us in tGS that the fight was at a different level than Rand was assuming. Cadsuane's whole arc was about that too. Anyone who reads this can immediately see that pre-epiphany Rand would have been woefully inadequate to the task.

As for Fain... yes, he isn't very critical. We get an idea of what his plan was, and if he succeeded, it would indeed have been catastrophic, but it was way too quick, way too sudden, and the name change came out of nowhere. But it was not a Gollum ending. Nor was it one of those stupid Fain will be the new DO endings. That was enough, for me.

[Sivin]

Damn, when is this supposed to come out? I could google it, but that' wouldn't be as much fun.

ETA: I also heard that Demandred (spelling, IDGAF) has been Egwene the whole time.

[Kosciuszko]

Damn, when is this supposed to come out? I could google it, but that' wouldn't be as much fun.

ETA: I also heard that Demandred (spelling, IDGAF) has been Egwene the whole time.

The 8th IIRC, and Egwenedred is totally canon (not really, I haven't read the book).

[cseresz.reborn]

fionwe,

http://asoiaf.wester...00#entry3671512

you know, readers/fans are pretty strange:

reactions:

2009 (nov-dec)

cseresz, you are a MORON! This is quite possibly my favorite book in the series! Sanderson is a genius! Sanderson's style is superb!

2010 (nov-dec)

cseresz, you idiot! Sanderson is a much better writer than Robert Jordan!

Aha.

2011-2012

cseresz, you were right, these books by BS are utterly bad: the writing style, the characters, the plot resolutions ...

fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 02:11:21 AM

"But with Sanderson's treatment of dialogue and character introspection so woefully inadequate to the task, any number of such perspective shifting reveals have simply flown under the radar, with the character's adjustments left to reader imagination."

[fionwe1987]

fionwe,

http://asoiaf.wester...00#entry3671512

you know, readers/fans are pretty strange:

reactions:

2009 (nov-dec)

cseresz, you are a MORON! This is quite possibly my favorite book in the series! Sanderson is a genius! Sanderson's style is superb!

2010 (nov-dec)

cseresz, you idiot! Sanderson is a much better writer than Robert Jordan!

Aha.

2011-2012

cseresz, you were right, these books by BS are utterly bad: the writing style, the characters, the plot resolutions ...

fionwe1987 - 09/10/2012 02:11:21 AM

"But with Sanderson's treatment of dialogue and character introspection so woefully inadequate to the task, any number of such perspective shifting reveals have simply flown under the radar, with the character's adjustments left to reader imagination."

How is this a spoiler, and why is this here?

[Joanna vander Poele]

Cserez, honestly... why do you care so much? Yikes.

[Rob B]

Anybody who received a review copy of A Memory of Light else get this e-mail from Tor?

I just wanted to ensure that you're aware of the embargo on any reviews prior to January 8th for A MEMORY OF LIGHT. I understand that these books were released prior to the date I requested and, as such, want to highlight that we will not allow any reviews prior to release date out of respect for fans of the series as they await this final chapter that's been so long in coming.

[kcf]

Anybody who received a review copy of A Memory of Light else get this e-mail from Tor?

I just wanted to ensure that you're aware of the embargo on any reviews prior to January 8th for A MEMORY OF LIGHT. I understand that these books were released prior to the date I requested and, as such, want to highlight that we will not allow any reviews prior to release date out of respect for fans of the series as they await this final chapter that's been so long in coming.

nope - but then the original package I got from Tor said as much.

[kcf]

I did ask the publicist at Tor about posting my review early. They said no and it was heavily implied that this is due to the agreement that Tor has with Harriet. I wouldn't be surprised if it was contractual. From what I gather, those that were provided early copies by Team Jordan (Harriet), had to sign NDAs. Those that were provided early copies by Tor have been asked to abide by the embargo (though there is not 'teeth' in it to enforce).

So, I'll wait until the 8th as I said I would.

[Werthead]

I now have my review copy, and have no idea if any other UK bloggers will also be getting them.

A quick peek reveals:

No glossary, one new map - of the Field of Merrilor - and the fact that just the one chapter entitled 'The Last Battle' lasts for just under 200 pages in hardcover.

[awesome possum]

I'm very surprised by at least one of the deaths. I had always considered that character as basically guaranteed to survive it all.

[fionwe1987]

I'm very surprised by at least one of the deaths. I had always considered that character as basically guaranteed to survive it all.

It was a good death, though.

[fionwe1987]

I now have my review copy, and have no idea if any other UK bloggers will also be getting them.

A quick peek reveals:

No glossary, one new map - of the Field of Merrilor - and the fact that just the one chapter entitled 'The Last Battle' lasts for just under 200 pages in hardcover.

You might be interested to know

that the chapter is about 70000 words long, has about 70 scenes, split between 30 or so characters. Its absolutely huge.