Rickon's arrival and its impact on Sansa.

[TheeMikeHoncho]

If Davos returns with Rickon and Manderly/Stannis can prevail what in the hell will happen to Sansa. She will no longer be the heir to Winterfell and therefore has limited use to Little Finger. What do you guys think?

[Ice Turtle]

First, Rickon need to return safely from Skaggos, which is not a sure thing for me, than LF need to actually heard about this and by the time this happens I don't think he will hold Sansa any longer.

But if he still held her, he would probably call the boy a frau and continue with his plan.

[Gogossos]

Sansa was always going to marry some Lord and move somewhere else away from Winterfell. That is her lot. Remember The Bastard is claiming Winterfell through a fake Arya as well. And that Jon can potentially be legitimised (he refused Stannis but what if it was Robb asking from beyond the grave?). Sansa's value increased when all her legit brothers and sister were presumed dead but her value doesn't decrease so much if they turn up alive. She's a Stark, with Tully blood and probably the best claim to the Vale regency should LF die and Sweetrobin survive, especially if her identity becomes known. Lysa's own niece taking care of Lysa's own son? C'mon, this one's is the bag already!

[Knight errant]

Sansa was always going to marry some Lord and move somewhere else away from Winterfell. That is her lot. Remember The Bastard is claiming Winterfell through a fake Arya as well. And that Jon can potentially be legitimised (he refused Stannis but what if it was Robb asking from beyond the grave?). Sansa's value increased when all her legit brothers and sister were presumed dead but her value doesn't decrease so much if they turn up alive. She's a Stark, with Tully blood and probably the best claim to the Vale regency should LF die and Sweetrobin survive, especially if her identity becomes known. Lysa's own niece taking care of Lysa's own son? C'mon, this one's is the bag already!

Robb has no right to legitimize, he holds no kingly authority to anyone. Just for the record. I think LF's going to try for kingship. wouldn't surprise me he already has two LP's in essence and cementing another. I bet he plans to expand elsewhere too. But I bet Sansa Ice's him first and takes over.

[Schmedes]

Robb should've had a king's authority in the North. He declared a seperate kingdom. If the North still follows the Starks, any legitimacy claims he made should still be honored.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Sansa was always going to marry some Lord and move somewhere else away from Winterfell. That is her lot. Remember The Bastard is claiming Winterfell through a fake Arya as well. And that Jon can potentially be legitimised (he refused Stannis but what if it was Robb asking from beyond the grave?). Sansa's value increased when all her legit brothers and sister were presumed dead but her value doesn't decrease so much if they turn up alive. She's a Stark, with Tully blood and probably the best claim to the Vale regency should LF die and Sweetrobin survive, especially if her identity becomes known. Lysa's own niece taking care of Lysa's own son? C'mon, this one's is the bag already!

Agreed, due to Sansa's high birth, she was always going to marry the lord of a great house (she was worthy enough to marry the king after all). Once Rickon emerges and the North rallies to him, it need not effect Sansa at all. LF's feelings for Sansa extend beyond her value. He see's her as either the daughter he should have had with Cat or as a replacement for Cat. He will adjust his plans accordingly. I also see Sweet robin surviving and LF dead at the hands of Sansa (she is getting smarter everyday).

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

Agreed, due to Sansa's high birth, she was always going to marry the lord of a great house (she was worthy enough to marry the king after all). Once Rickon emerges and the North rallies to him, it need not effect Sansa at all. LF's feelings for Sansa extend beyond her value. He see's her as either the daughter he should have had with Cat or as a replacement for Cat. He will adjust his plans accordingly. I also see Sweet robin surviving and LF dead at the hands of Sansa (she is getting smarter everyday).

Yes, LF had a (creepy, IMO) obsession with Sansa long before she was heir to anything, back when he first met her at the Tourney of the Hand. Cersei recalls that he asked her for Sansa's hand in marriage but she refused as he was too lowborn. (I'm not sure if this was before the disappearance of Bran and Rickon and the death of Robb or not; I know it was after Ned died.) So I'm sure he'd want to marry her just because of his own obsession with her (and I hope Sansa is the one to deliver his karmic desserts to him. Even if she doesn't have him executed, or kill him herself, it would be rich if LF was exiled to the Wall and spent the rest of his life as one of the Night Watch menials, emptying chamber pots and such. He'd have the rest of his life to think about how the mighty can fall. Ha ha.)

In a Bran POV chapter he notes that both Sansa and Arya are destined to marry southern lords. They are daughters of house Stark, a Great House and one of the oldest Great Houses to boot. Sansa was good enough to marry a future King, after all. Even with Rickon back in the picture, she's still a prize on the marriage market. And she's also Rickon's heir until he fathers a legitimate child - assuming that Robb didn't specifically disinherit her in writing and that will held up as valid.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Yes, LF had a (creepy, IMO) obsession with Sansa long before she was heir to anything, back when he first met her at the Tourney of the Hand. Cersei recalls that he asked her for Sansa's hand in marriage but she refused as he was too lowborn. (I'm not sure if this was before the disappearance of Bran and Rickon and the death of Robb or not; I know it was after Ned died.) So I'm sure he'd want to marry her just because of his own obsession with her (and I hope Sansa is the one to deliver his karmic desserts to him. Even if she doesn't have him executed, or kill him herself, it would be rich if LF was exiled to the Wall and spent the rest of his life as one of the Night Watch menials, emptying chamber pots and such. He'd have the rest of his life to think about how the mighty can fall. Ha ha.)

In a Bran POV chapter he notes that both Sansa and Arya are destined to marry southern lords. They are daughters of house Stark, a Great House and one of the oldest Great Houses to boot. Sansa was good enough to marry a future King, after all. Even with Rickon back in the picture, she's still a prize on the marriage market. And she's also Rickon's heir until he fathers a legitimate child - assuming that Robb didn't specifically disinherit her in writing and that will held up as valid.

I think Robb's will was written a mind that he would never see any of his siblings again. More importantly, Jon will never take the position with one of his (cousins) alive and well. He may take a regency or a protectorship until Rickon comes of age, but no more.

Good call on Rickon. He will not have an heir for quite some time. Sansa and her children will also be heirs to the North until Rickon is married and has family of his own.

Sansa is getting smarter all the time. Some event will open her eyes to LF's true nature (a letter from Varys or a conversation w/ Lord Royce) and she will make him pay big time. Most important of all, she will learn to play the "game of thrones" just as well as anyone before she does him in. I can't wait for the look on LF's face when she has him executed. The Wall works just as well for me.

[Nezzer]

If Stannis restores the Starks in power and they declare themselves kings once again, they will lose all the respect I had with them.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

If Stannis restores the Starks in power and they declare themselves kings once again, they will lose all the respect I had with them.

I don't think Stannis will be in position to restore anything, b/c I do not think he will win the iron throne. However, I do see whomever rules in Rickon's name (Jon, Wyman Manderly, Robett Glover) making peace with the Targaryn ruler and returning to the status quo.

[NitzanLeo]

If we're going to go into semantics with who's legitimate and the heir and stuff for the North, then we should remember that Robb made Jon his heir, and released him from his vows. So, to be exact, Jon is Lord of Winterfell/King in the North. If let's say, that Jon decides to stay with the NW (which we already know is more than reasonable, seeing that he won't be the first to forfeit being king for the NW i.e Aemon), then Rickon--really Bran, but I'll ignore that--will be King. Still, though, Sansa will still have the Vale, and together they would be able to raise the remaining loyal Riverlords. Whatever is left could probably be a match to whatever is left of the Lannister-Tyrells.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

If we're going to go into semantics with who's legitimate and the heir and stuff for the North, then we should remember that Robb made Jon his heir, and released him from his vows. So, to be exact, Jon is Lord of Winterfell/King in the North. If let's say, that Jon decides to stay with the NW (which we already know is more than reasonable, seeing that he won't be the first to forfeit being king for the NW i.e Aemon), then Rickon--really Bran, but I'll ignore that--will be King. Still, though, Sansa will still have the Vale, and together they would be able to raise the remaining loyal Riverlords. Whatever is left could probably be a match to whatever is left of the Lannister-Tyrells.

The problem won't be the Lannister/Tyrell alliance. The Lannisters will be done and the Tyrells will bend the knee in my estimation. The problem is the returning Targaryens.

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

Even if Robb's will holds up and Sansa is disinherited, she's still worth making an alliance with as she is still a legitimate daughter of House Stark. If she had been bastardized (as was proposed to do with Cersei's children) it would be different, but there's no chance in hell of that happening. Sansa was still a very eligible bachelorette on the Westeros marriage market even when she had three brothers between her and Winterfell which meant that for all practical purposes she wasn't expected to inherit.

She has the Vale with its untouched army and food supplies and that might prove to be more important than her claim to WF. With winter coming and crops destroyed, King Bread is going to be the one people will want to bend the knee to.

I also suspect that Jon will have bigger fish to fry than WF going forward; if he is indeed Rhaegar's son and half Targ he's almost certainly going to wind up with one of the dragons and be a Big Damn Hero, saving Westeros from the Others or something like that.

And then there's Dany and Drogon, and whoever winds up with the third dragon, and Aegon or "Aegon" as the case may be and his Golden Company. The fate of Winterfell is up in the air still. Whatever happens, I want Rickon to stick around just so he and Sansa have each other, at least (if Arya and Bran don't come back).

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Even if Robb's will holds up and Sansa is disinherited, she's still worth making an alliance with as she is still a legitimate daughter of House Stark. If she had been bastardized (as was proposed to do with Cersei's children) it would be different, but there's no chance in hell of that happening. Sansa was still a very eligible bachelorette on the Westeros marriage market even when she had three brothers between her and Winterfell which meant that for all practical purposes she wasn't expected to inherit.

She has the Vale with its untouched army and food supplies and that might prove to be more important than her claim to WF. With winter coming and crops destroyed, King Bread is going to be the one people will want to bend the knee to.

I also suspect that Jon will have bigger fish to fry than WF going forward; if he is indeed Rhaegar's son and half Targ he's almost certainly going to wind up with one of the dragons and be a Big Damn Hero, saving Westeros from the Others or something like that.

And then there's Dany and Drogon, and whoever winds up with the third dragon, and Aegon or "Aegon" as the case may be and his Golden Company. The fate of Winterfell is up in the air still. Whatever happens, I want Rickon to stick around just so he and Sansa have each other, at least (if Arya and Bran don't come back).

The problem is LF. He needs to die before Sansa can come into her own. My personal hope is that she learns all she can, kills/exiles LF, marries Sweetrobin (and gives him to Bronze Yohnze for fostering) and allies with Dany.

[Nezzer]

I hope Bran, Rickon, Sansa and Jon all start a war against each other for Winterfell. That would be fun :cool4:

[The Real Summer Islander]

i thought sansa was to be wed to harold hardyng (heir of the vale?)? wouldnt that still be of use to littlefinger?

[KittensRuleBeetsDrool]

i thought sansa was to be wed to harold hardyng (heir of the vale?)? wouldnt that still be of use to littlefinger?

That is what Littlefinger says. However, what LF says and what he actually does are two different matters. I suspect he either doesn't intend to marry Sansa to HtH at all but wants her and her claim for himself. LF is not known for selflessness and generosity.

If Rickon shows up and thus takes away Sansa's claim, LF probably will still be fixated on her as "Cat 2.0" but she'll be less of a valuable pawn to him. But even then, she'd be a good match for Harry, because she is a Stark (that is if Harry finds out who she really is).

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Robb has no right to legitimize, he holds no kingly authority to anyone. Just for the record. I think LF's going to try for kingship. wouldn't surprise me he already has two LP's in essence and cementing another. I bet he plans to expand elsewhere too. But I bet Sansa Ice's him first and takes over.

If the northerners still recognize Robb's kingdom — and it looks like most of them do — then his will and his legitimizations would also be recognized.

[Nebmai]

Sansa will be of less use to Littlefinger and his schemes on Rickon's return, but she still will be quite valuable either for making an alliance with Winterfell or at least as a valuable hostage depending on how evilly Littlefinger will take Rickon's return (or whatever ends up happening with John / Bran as the books progress).

[hrafna]

i think rickon has been setup to be the lord of winterfell since bran was crippled. i just keep having a feeling that sansa will end up with sandor at the end. possibly tyrion or harold. arya and bran i feel are the more difficult characters to pick. jon will rule with dany, ruling mereen and the wall is teaching them to comand.