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Prologue.. from the past?


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#1 Lightstar

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:36 PM

I wonder why nobody has suggested Martin might not use a prologue of a character who died in the past to give us answers. Perhaps he will give us the prologue of the Nightking or whomever Coldhands is. Maybe we get the prologue from someone at the TOJ, a Rhaegar prologue would be pretty cool. Thoughts?

#2 Ice Turtle

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:28 AM

Would be great, but I don't think GRRM will do it.

#3 family duty Hodor

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

AsoiaF is basically entirely chronological, with the exception of an occasional dream (and some aFFC - aDwD mixups)

#4 Pliskin

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:39 PM

AsoiaF is basically entirely chronological, with the exception of an occasional dream (and some aFFC - aDwD mixups)

Not really, there are some chapters that happen before the apparent order in which they appear in the books.
The most obvious example is the Ironborn arc of AFFC.

Edited by Pliskin, 09 January 2013 - 04:39 PM.


#5 Arataniello

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:40 PM

I wonder why nobody has suggested Martin might not use a prologue of a character who died in the past to give us answers. Perhaps he will give us the prologue of the Nightking or whomever Coldhands is. Maybe we get the prologue from someone at the TOJ, a Rhaegar prologue would be pretty cool. Thoughts?


Much as I would like to see something like this, they would simply give too much away.

#6 Peasant Rebel Leader

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:35 AM

There's only two (or three) prologues left for the books, so I'd say that "it'd give too much away" is not a good argument. I could see this as a good way to resolve the question of Jon's parents, what Howland Reed did on the isle before the tournament at Harrenhall or even Rhaegar's sight on all things. That last one would also give us an epic view on Robert at his prime /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' /> That could also be achieved by prologues of living persons in the correct chronology of course (candidates would be Howland Reed, Septa Lemore (if she is Ashara Dayne), Bloodraven, Varys, etc. ...)

But it's an interesting idea to have a past prologue.

#7 Luckycooky

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

It will be epic but i dont think it will happen

#8 Lightstar

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

AsoiaF is basically entirely chronological, with the exception of an occasional dream (and some aFFC - aDwD mixups)


Coldhands dream? Or maybe a dream from someone still alive at a critical point in time from the past, we get a dream and then they wake up and die. I wouldn't be shocked to see a BenJen prologue.

#9 Russo

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:28 AM

Assuming R+L=J is true, perhaps the epilogue for the book that includes that reveal could be one of the kingsguard at the TOJ

#10 Lord Damian

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:26 AM

A retro prologue to shock everyone to their core, ... Lyanna Stark

#11 Warrior Queen

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:33 PM

I would really like a Rhaegar prologue.. but not one that spoils things! I don't want to read about Jon Snow or anything.. (I do believe R+L=J)

It would be nice if it would be a prologue of his thoughts when he arrives at the battlefield of the Trident
As i remember.. the only perspective known is Robert's, and he only talks about how strong he was.
I would like to know what Rhaegar was thinking when he entered the battlefield and what he was thinking when he was fighting Robert...he might think about Lyanna, and his family, more about the prophesies. I want him to tell us something very interesting, and yet without spoiling something big.

I really want to know what was going on in Rhaegars head, he seems like a very complicated, but very interesting character. The fact that he was happiest and saddest at Summerhall (where a lot of his family members died) and even slept there sometimes, makes me think he had a very different perspective on life.
And also he was supposed to be really smart. Just very curious about him.

This will prob. never happen, which makes me sad. I would've really liked to get to know him better as a character.

Edited by Lady of Joy, 14 January 2013 - 03:35 PM.


#12 Blue Rose Direwolf

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

How great is GRRM as a writer that he's got us mooning over characters who are never even ALIVE in any of the books? I can't stop obsessing about Rhaegar or Lyanna, myself. It's all so tragic.

I'd love a Lyanna or a Rhaegar prologue but I doubt it'll happen. GRRM would never give us what we wanted so easily.

#13 HouseBluth

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

How great is GRRM as a writer that he's got us mooning over characters who are never even ALIVE in any of the books? I can't stop obsessing about Rhaegar or Lyanna, myself. It's all so tragic.

I'd love a Lyanna or a Rhaegar prologue but I doubt it'll happen. GRRM would never give us what we wanted so easily.


Agreed.

I'd definitely argue that Rhaegar is series' most well-rounded character. He continues to affect almost every single thing that occurs in their world. To me, hearing people talk and reflect on him is the most interesting thing in the books. I NEED to know what he read or did that made him so melancholy all the time. That being said, there's almost no chance that GRRM would divulge this info as it contains some of the biggest mysteries.

#14 Anima

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:47 PM

We know Rhaegar read books of prophecy and that at the beginning he thought himself to be the Prince that was promised "the song of ice and fire" then we know through the house of the undying vision (at least if it was a true vision) that he then started thinking that his son would be TPTWP "he is the prince that was promised, the song of ice and fire" or something like that.

As to why GRRM wouldn't do a prologue in the past it's quite simple in my opinion. GRRM simply only let's us see through the eyes of active (if not necessarily major) characters. Why? Simply because it's more interesting that way. When we, the readers aren't omniscient. It's one of the very essence of POV narration, you can only know as much as the characters shown know. Then you cross-reference all you learned and make theories but you can never be certain.

Edited by Anima, 20 January 2013 - 04:48 PM.


#15 HouseBluth

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 07:30 PM

We know Rhaegar read books of prophecy and that at the beginning he thought himself to be the Prince that was promised "the song of ice and fire" then we know through the house of the undying vision (at least if it was a true vision) that he then started thinking that his son would be TPTWP "he is the prince that was promised, the song of ice and fire" or something like that.


I understand all that. He's constantly described as being sad, almost as if he has some secret knowledge that no one else does. Perhaps it's due to his understanding of the battle that's to come against the Others--e knows that huge populations will die. Or maybe it's before Elia gives birth to their children, and the weight of being the PwwP is constantly getting him down. Somehow I think he has a deeper intelligence of the world that causes him to be this way, and I really want to know what it is.

#16 STANN1SBARATHEON

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:44 PM

i could really go for some Ned Stark prologue, maybe what happened as he burst through the doors to the tower of joy

#17 Stark Born Again

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:13 PM

I think it would be very interesting if the prologue was done from pov of a White Walker. Perhaps they 'rise again' only when the majority of the humans of Westeros become too greedy, self-centered and uncaring. Crackpot idea probably but I was raised a long time ago during cowboy movies when the good guys wore the white hats and the bad guys the black. So, perhaps they only kill the 'unworthy' and they make Jon the new king as he's one of the few leaders left who is truly honourable.

#18 Pinkie Baelish

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

Agreed.

I'd definitely argue that Rhaegar is series' most well-rounded character. He continues to affect almost every single thing that occurs in their world. To me, hearing people talk and reflect on him is the most interesting thing in the books. I NEED to know what he read or did that made him so melancholy all the time. That being said, there's almost no chance that GRRM would divulge this info as it contains some of the biggest mysteries.


Have to disagree here. Rhaegar has always struck me as one of the series' most one-dimensional characters. He's awesome at everything he does. He's intelligent, he's handsome, he's a great fighter, he's sensitive, his playing of the harp gets everyone in the room pregnant, including the guys. He's like the wet dream of a teenage fanfiction writer. I just don't find a character so seemingly perfect to be interesting, which is why I don't particularly care to learn more about him. All I want to know regarding Rhaegar is the events at the Tower of Joy and whether he's Jon's father or not.

#19 Peasant Rebel Leader

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 08:27 PM

But that picture is too perfect, no? He can't have been all that, so it'd be especially interesting to see behind the facade.

Also, there's negative points on Rhaegar: He's melancholic (maybe even bipolar?) at Summerhall, Barristan tells us he's not the best jouster (or not the best swordsman, something along that line), Rhaegar causes the downfall of his family by "kidnapping"*, he cheated on his wife and used his kids for a purpose we'd now call a psychotic obsession, namely a prophecy. What would he have done when the kids couldn't fulfill that role?

*even if Lyanna wanted to come with him, it was obviously a bad decision for public relations...

But I'm not sure I would want a Rhaegar Point of view, I'd say his story is best seen from outside. The same's true for a White Walker, I guess we can see that side a bit via Benjen Stark (which could also have been in the past). And definately not Ned for the Tower of Joy, Howland Reed or Willa** would be more interesting. (**I can't see no servants at all being at the tower)

#20 Ser Ash the Red

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 07:50 AM

If there is a prologue with someone who knows all about the past it would be Bloodraven. However he cannot die at the beginning of The Winds of Winter since he needs to teach Bran before he dies. He is more likely to tell all in a Bran chapter.That does not mean he would not be a good epilogue POV or the POV in the Prologue to A Dream of Spring.