[Sample] Arianne I

[tze]

If Doran heard rumors in the past about Connington's sexuality and sent Daemon Sand to (in part) seduce him, that would mean Doran didn't bother cluing Arianne in on that particular plan. Which could have a number of potential implications.

So . . . is House Toland's sigil a hint that Meraxes was green? House Toland's sigil, according to Lady Nymella, comes from their historical resistance to Aegon and his sisters. But Aegon rode a black dragon, and House Targaryen's sigil is a red dragon, so how/why did House Toland choose a green dragon eating its own tail (supposedly a representation of the Conquest's failure to take Dorne) as a sigil? Rhaenys was the Targ who came to Dorne and failed to conquer it, which is why I wonder if it's specifically a reference to Meraxes.

There's been a lot of speculation elsewhere that the greenseers are going to bring the Hammer of the Waters down on Pyke. This:

"And krakens off the Broken Arm, pulling under crippled galleys," said Valena. "The blood draws them to the surface, our maester claims.

could add fuel to that particular fire. The Arm of Dorne was "broken" when the greenseers (supposedly) brought the Hammer of the Waters down on it. Juxtaposing krakens (associated with Pyke) with the Broken Arm (associated with the Hammer), with the added tidbit of ships going under (and bodies ending up in the water) specifically because of "blood"s influence on an animal (Bloodraven) could be pointing toward Bloodraven and the Hammer.

[Bastard of Boston]

I feel like I showed up late to the party, and everyone's knocked out, sitting in flower pots, hooking up, or gone home. So, I scanned the pages of excellent analysis And, besides feeling like a crackhead who finally got another fix -- I forgot how much I lived for Westeros analysis once I finished getting up-to-date with the seres -- I picked out a few bits I loved throughout my scan.

I, too, also saw some positive growth in Arianne. She's obviously not completely above thinking with her vagina, but that very quality is one of the reasons why we love her -- she allows GRRM a vehicle for future HBO gratuitousness. She's at least very thoughtful. A compare/contrast to Dany is definitely a worthy character study. I see her screwing up, but ironically -- like Quentyn -- you root for her not to screw up, nonetheless. Well, at least I do.

Little Elia is also very compelling. Loving what was said about her = Elia 1.0 + Lyanna = JonCon Hate. Very interesting character. Actually, both Elia and Daemon were intriguing, to only just appear now. I've never disliked the Dorne POVs, but I think Arianne's POV is going to be one to watch when the Winds arrive.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

If Doran heard rumors in the past about Connington's sexuality and sent Daemon Sand to (in part) seduce him, that would mean Doran didn't bother cluing Arianne in on that particular plan. Which could have a number of potential implications.

So . . . is House Tolland's sigil a hint that Meraxes was green? House Tolland's sigil, according to Lady Nymella, comes from their historical resistance to Aegon and his sisters. But Aegon rode a black dragon, and House Targaryen's sigil is a red dragon, so how/why did House Tolland choose a green dragon eating its own tail (supposedly a representation of the Conquest's failure to take Dorne) as a sigil? Rhaenys was the Targ who came to Dorne and failed to conquer it, which is why I wonder if it's specifically a reference to Meraxes.

There's been a lot of speculation elsewhere that the greenseers are going to bring the Hammer of the Waters down on Pyke. This:

could add fuel to that particular fire. The Arm of Dorne was "broken" when the greenseers (supposedly) brought the Hammer of the Waters down on it. Juxtaposing krakens (associated with Pyke) with the Broken Arm (associated with the Hammer), with the added tidbit of ships going under (and bodies ending up in the water) specifically because of "blood"s influence on an animal (Bloodraven) could be pointing toward Bloodraven and the Hammer.

Awesome observation about Meraxes being green, and it makes good sense, and about the link between the Hammer, the Arm of Dorne and the ironborn (or at least, krakens in general).

[bogdevil]

Random question, but why does house Toland's dragon sigil not have wings?

Also i think the rumors refer to literal krakens, not Greyjoy Krakens.

"And krakens off the Broken Arm, pulling under crippled galleys," said Valena. "The blood draws them to the surface, our maester claims. There are bodies in the water. A few have washed up on our shores. And that's not half of it. A new pirate king has set up on Torturer's Deep. The Lord of the Waters, he styles himself. This one has real warships, three-deckers, monstrous large. You were wise not to come by sea. Since the Redwyne fleet passed through the Stepstones, those waters are crawling with strange sails, all the way north to the Straights of Tarth and Shipbreaker's Bay. Myrmen, Volantenes, Lyseni, even reavers from the Iron Islands.

if the first krakens was referencing Greyjoy Krakens, the reference to reavers from the iron islands is really redundant.

[pb31]

Also i think the rumors refer to literal krakens, not Greyjoy Krakens.

if the first krakens was referencing Greyjoy Krakens, the reference to reavers from the iron islands is really redundant.

I agree. Plus 'pulling under' and 'draws them to the surface' aren't really human descriptions.

[Carey Snow]

I don't think Arianne has changed all that much either, and neither does Daemon Sand it seems:

He's not buying into her new "what's best for the family" act or whatever it is. She still covets power, only now it isn't just Dorne that she desires, she wants to be the Queen of Westeros like she would have been if the plans involving Viserys had worked out. At least that is the sense I got from it. She also lost her two Cyvasse games, which tells me she hasn't developed into quite the "player" Doran hopes she is. Add all this to the points Brashcandy made and I think it is clear that Arianne hasn't "improved" all that much.

I also thought there was an interesting bit of foreshadowing with regards to Dany and Daario in the way Arianne reflected on her mistake with Darkstar:

IIRC, Dany thinks of Daario in the same way; that he is hard and cruel, dark and dangerous....but so handsome she can't stop thinking about him. If Arianne's experience with Darkstar is any indication, then things aren't going to end all that well with Dany and Daario. Not that we all couldn't see that coming from a mile away anyway.

Dany did see it coming and chose to sleep with him anyways. Dany can let Daario go, she has proven that when she let him be a hostage.

[Darth Pipes]

Great chapter! A lot of information there. Nice to see Arianne discussing Dany and even stuff like the Lord of the Waters is awesome. I hope Brienne's father got out of Tarth before it fell.

[WillWork4NinjaPowers]

What stuck out to me the most is that she doesn't want to look at the Dragon/war related items in the library. That would be something Tyrion would jump at the chance to study. So...you have Arrianne, who at this point is not only not knowledgeable about warfare, but is also not taking the opportunity to learn about when given the chance, going to meet a young and brash heir who is being counseled by a man with greyscale who is about to go mad. Then you have Dany being guided by Selmy, with Tyrion, should he succeed, on his way. I don't see any way for the Martells/Aegon defeating Dany/Dragons.

I do think the mention of Doran putting so much effort into standing being noted by Arriane, shows she is less selfish. That was really sad, I thought, and might foreshadow his death.

I don't think Areo will make it out alive.

I hope Davos' family is okay.

[carmela28]

Two things about the Darkstar:

(1) With Obara, Balon, and Hotah looking for him, Darkstar has a kind of trump card. He knows who killed Arys Oakheart. Darkstar to Balon Swann, "If they could lie to you once, maybe they could lie to you about other things. I would never attack a little girl."'

(2) What kind of man would Doran consider "the most dangerous man in Dorne?" Doran is a smart guy who knows that martial prowess can come down to a slip or a glint of sunlight, a la Barristan's description of jousting prowess. Doran would consider a smart/devious/intelligent/well-informed (and possibly desperate) man to be "the most dangerous." Darkstar knows something.

We haven't been told all of Doran's plans. He seems to be moving his pieces into place: Sand Snakes to KL, Arianne to Aegon/Connington, Obara after Dark Star, Quentyn to Dany. Despite the last one having gone horribly wrong, I think that he has plans within plans and then some contingency plans. At least I hope he does; it is time for Dorne to win one. (And nothing bad better happen to Ellaria and her little ones; she has suffered enough.)

I think that Hotah survives that meet-up with DS. With Arianne elsewhere, we need a POV in Dorne for awhile and Hotah provides that. I think that Balon will die during the hunt for DS and it won't be a tragic accident - it will have been part of Doran's plan. They don't want a member of the KG running around Dorne seeking justice.

DS's role still confuses me. Right now, I'm thinking that could be working for Doran. As Ser Leftwich says above, Dorne needs every advantage and DS could certainly be the type of "dangerous" guy that is required.

But if DS is workiing for Doran, why then the attack on Myrcella? And who spolied Arianne's plot?

[Lion of Judah]

I am very troubled by Arianne's interpretation of what happened with Viserys, even when she questioned Daemon he told her that the Dothraki are fickle people. She ignored that and found a way to spin it in her mind that Daenerys was trying to be rid of Viserys, because she felt threatened by Arianne's and Viserys prospective marriage. A marriage pact that Daenerys knew nothing about until Quentyn came to her in Meereen.

I was not a believer, but I think Dorne supports Aegon. Once they see the boy with his Targaryen features they will have no choice but to support him. Connington and Arianne will have a parlay and once she sends word back to Doran about this boy the deal will be done. Dorne is in between a rock and a hard place and Quentyn getting turned to ash is not going to do Dany any favors in a place where Arianne is already stirring trouble with Dany.

[Fire Eater]

Great chapter! A lot of information there. Nice to see Arianne discussing Dany and even stuff like the Lord of the Waters is awesome. I hope Brienne's father got out of Tarth before it fell.

I don't think so. He is more likely to have commanded the defenses at Evenfall Hall.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

Even he stayed it should be ok. The GC is taking highborn hostages and not needlessly killing people. They are trying to win the hearts and minds of the region.

[I do not sew]

However that confrontation goes down, whoever is on who's side, no matter what betrayals and revelations come to the surface, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO SWING DAWN AT ANOTHER PERSONS FACE. I just want to see that sword come into the fold so bad...

I've always thought Darkstar's endgame, or at least his principle motivation in life, was to get his hands on Dawn. The infamous line that earned him so much scorn always came across to me as more bitter than narcissistic.

I'm wondering though, do you have to be a Dayne of Starfall to be the Sword of the Morning, or only "worthy." Either way he's no doubt been told his entire life he'll never posess it, but if it's the former he'd be extra angsty no doubt. Regardless, I think he wants that fucking sword. Hard.

[SFDanny]

“I am three-and-twenty, for seven years a woman grown.” (

AFfC

603) Arianne to Prince Doran after her release from the tower cell. If it is 300 she was born in either 277 or 276. Because this takes place after Arianne’s plot to replace Tommen as king with Myrcella we know it is after the start of year 300 which starts with Joffrey’s death.

"I was seven when Elia died." (TWoW http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-sample.html ) Which means she was seven in 283, and born in either 276 or 275. This and the quote above mean she was born in 276.

[Alia of the knife]

My Take-aways:

- Arianne will end up being a liability to Dorans plans. She will try and be what her Father wants, and while she no doubt loves her Father, she adored and hero-worshipped The Red Viper, and has modeled herself more after him, which will not bode well for well-laid plans.

- Elia Sand is alright, but I think she serves nothing more than to be a plot device to indicate that Lyanna Stark was the Knight of the Laughing Tree.

I don't see an Elia/Aegon hook-up, even if Arianne was okay with it because her name is Elia. Even for a Targ. calling out your Mothers name in the peak of passion is awkward.

Besides, if JonCon doesn't give her the greyscale because he hates her, I'm shipping Elia with Jon, but please don't let Elia be really Arya as a FM, because then Jon will accidently sleep with her, and then you get Luke and Leah. :stillsick: and the Arya/Jon shippers win afterall. :bawl:

- If there is an Arianne/Aegon alliance, it won't be a happy one. Neither of them will want to give in on power in the matters of State. :bang: :fencing:

- I use to think Dany was mad, but since it's Ariannes judgement we're talking here, Dany may end up being innocent. I'll have to see more of Ariannes character assessments. :idea:

- Doran is going to die

- Dorne probably won't survive the Dance of Dragons.

Under the PURE SPECULATION Header:

- Arya is going to end up either in Eurons orbit, or Darkstar if he fled to the free cities. IF he was the Red Vipers Protoge, and knew of all the places the Red Viper went to seek out his dark pursuits, then DS knows where to hide- maybe the House of the Black and the White.

[Stallion That Mounts Texas]

- Doran is going to die

- Dorne probably won't survive the Dance of Dragons.

I think even with Quentyn's death he will soldier on for a time b/c he knows Arianne is not ready and for Trystane's sake. But time is definitely running out.

Dorne has lasted for thousands of years. They were the only kingdom to never fall to the dragons and they will survive them a second time around. The deserts are vast and full of places they can hide and employ guerilla warfare.

[Free Northman]

I for one am absolutely flabbergasted as to how people connect Arya to all of these events in the distant South.

I disagree with these assessments.

[ColdDrake]

Nice sample chapter but I still have no idea why so much time is being spent on the Dorne/Quentyn storylines this late in the series. I assume it's leading up to something important, can't wait to see how it plays out. My guess would be that they wind up allied with Aegon (mummer's dragon) and fighting Dany upon her return.

[Blackaz01]

I for one am absolutely flabbergasted as to how people connect Arya to all of these events in the distant South.

I disagree with these assessments.

I agree her wolf is in the riverlands, her brothers are in the north, and her sister is in the vale (who we know she will reunite with at some point). Yet people think she will head to dorne of all places? Nah her story is in the riverlands imo there arent enough books left for her to travel all the way to dorne and the back to the riverlands and then the north.

[The BlackBear]

I agree her wolf is in the riverlands, her brothers are in the north, and her sister is in the vale (who we know she will reunite with at some point). Yet people think she will head to dorne of all places? Nah her story is in the riverlands imo there arent enough books left for her to travel all the way to dorne and the back to the riverlands and then the north.

Well Dany fight a battlem, will probably hang around Meereen for a bit, has to travel with an entire army back to westeros, which is a hell of a way away. Even if she only has to get there, and doesn't go North or do anything else. Winds of Winter will have largish gaps between chapters or chapters that span quite large amounts of time, he's done it before he can do it again. Plenty of time for Arya to pop up in all kinds of places.

That said I'm not sure she'll get involved in Dorne. I'd agree that the Riverlands are the only place she'll have to go.