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Bran will be Melisandre's undoing.


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34 replies to this topic

#1 Lion of Judah

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 06:28 PM

I just re-read the Theon gift chapter again and something dawned on me. What if Bran wanted Stannis to take Theon to the weirwoods because he wanted to communicate with Stannis and not Theon? Bran knows Winterfell and it's castle better than anyone, could he be trying to help Stannis gain an advantage? And if he communicates with Stannis, what would that mean for Melisandre? Thus far Melisandre's advice for Stannis's battles have been ineffective. If Bran gives Stannis information that proves valuable in the impending battle for Winterfell, does it spell the end of the Stannis/Mel dynamic?

#2 Blue Rose Direwolf

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:01 PM

Interesting theory! I think that any help anyone gets against the Red Woman is a good thing, particularly Stannis. I don't know how well Stannis would figure that out so it might be totally wrong as a theory but I like it all the same.

#3 therustman

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:09 PM

I do think something will happen at the Weirwoods by Bran which will seem, certainly to the Northmen, as divine intervention. This will either make Stannis turn to the Old Gods or at least realise he cannot win the North over while supporting Mel's Red God.

#4 eggs

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:22 PM

Well even if that happened, Stannis would still sleep with her and take her advice. He'd just realize that a lot of her rhollor talk is bullshit.

#5 eggs

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:23 PM

sorry for the dp. dont know how to delete it.

Edited by eggs, 15 January 2013 - 08:32 AM.


#6 malek

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

I think that resurrection of Jon will be her undoing. It's not impossible that she might be living on "kiss of life herself", and that she will be so sure that Jon is the real AA reborn, and will willingly trade her life for his. Just like Berrick did for Cat.

#7 Prince of the North

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

I think that resurrection of Jon will be her undoing. It's not impossible that she might be living on "kiss of life herself", and that she will be so sure that Jon is the real AA reborn, and will willingly trade her life for his. Just like Berrick did for Cat.

I've seen this idea before but I don't think so. I agree with you that Melisandre has received the "Kiss o' Fire" but she is also something that Beric was not: a sorceror. Beric had no other way to resurrect Catelyn and, indeed, wanted to transfer his fire to her. I believe it would be perfectly logical for Mel to be able to resurrect Jon (if he actually died) without "dying" herself.

#8 malek

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

I've seen this idea before but I don't think so. I agree with you that Melisandre has received the "Kiss o' Fire" but she is also something that Beric was not: a sorceror. Beric had no other way to resurrect Catelyn and, indeed, wanted to transfer his fire to her. I believe it would be perfectly logical for Mel to be able to resurrect Jon (if he actually died) without "dying" herself.


Perhaps you are right, and perhaps only precious few of Red Priests can give a Kiss of Life. However we know for sure that one that recived it, can transfer it to someone else. It is a long shot, but one of us could be right on this one /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

#9 joluoto

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

We don't know much about the powers of R'hyllor. It might just be that the Red Priests have very different powers, which means Mel can't do what Thoros does, and Thoros can't do the same things Moqorro does and so on. And that would be very interesting.

#10 bemused

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 01:50 AM

We know from Mel's chapter that the religion has different "Orders" . They may have different focuses , or areas of expertise .. She is not of Benerro and Moqorro's order, or she would believe Dany is AA.

Thoros hasn't weighed in on the matter ,as yet.

We saw Moqorro heal a deadly wound that certainly affects the appearance of Victarion's arm, but the magic may be quite different from the kiss of fire.

Edited by bemused, 16 January 2013 - 01:52 AM.


#11 Blue Rose Direwolf

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 02:31 AM

I don't want the Red Woman to ever go near Jon's lips for any reason, but this story hardly runs on my will. She may or may not give him the kiss of fire but I'm pretty sure he'll warg regardless. She ain't going to get him without a fight.

#12 TheeMikeHoncho

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Posted 16 January 2013 - 05:24 AM

I believe that bran wants to bring theon before a ww tree to share in the fate of the man in his greendream. That man was brought before the wierwood and his throat was sliced by a woman dressed in all white (like Val was when she returned to Jon) and wielding a bronze sickle. Might be that it is part of some sort of ritual to heal/ressurect someone...............

#13 Real Heir of Bear Island

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 03:43 PM

I think Bran will be either Bloodraven's or the Great Other's undoing actually. I agree with the theories that he will be drifting toward the dark, but will realize what is going on. In a Devil's Advocate kind of move (The movie with Pacino) Bran will sacrifice himself for the good of the realm.

#14 Starkbringer

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 09:25 PM

I will not miss her. Hope he destroys her before she does any more damage.

#15 HouseBluth

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:24 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it made abundantly clear that Bran will not be able to communicate through the weirwoods? Him talking translates to leaves rustling and wind blowing or something. With that being said, I am still confused why Theon hears someone say his name in the godswood. Bran also gets Ned's attention in the flashback-esque scene, but it wasn't in the way of comprehensible words.

Assuming this is true, how will Bran have any effect on the battle for Winterfell? Maybe he'll be able drop a branch on Ramsay.

#16 Anima

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:54 PM

Theon knows Winterfell almost as well as Bran and he probably as a more tactical view of the place as he proved when he "conquered" it.

The only advantage Bran could have is the knowledge contained in the weirwoods. Now that's a big advantage but if he does have that knowledge I personally think he'll put it to better use than helping Stannis. Though he might do it indirectly just to speed things up in the North so it gets unified against the others.

#17 firepoet

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 12:00 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it made abundantly clear that Bran will not be able to communicate through the weirwoods? Him talking translates to leaves rustling and wind blowing or something. With that being said, I am still confused why Theon hears someone say his name in the godswood. Bran also gets Ned's attention in the flashback-esque scene, but it wasn't in the way of comprehensible words.

Assuming this is true, how will Bran have any effect on the battle for Winterfell? Maybe he'll be able drop a branch on Ramsay.


This is a pretty important thing that people have been conveniently ignoring. He can't communicate. It's possible to talk through the ravens but Bran hasn't spent a single moment learning how to do that.

#18 Phoenix21

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 01:46 PM

This is a pretty important thing that people have been conveniently ignoring. He can't communicate. It's possible to talk through the ravens but Bran hasn't spent a single moment learning how to do that.


Bran communicates through the ravens in the Theon sample chapter, and how would we know if he has or hasn't been working on talking through them, he only had 3 POVs in ADwD.

#19 ross1983

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 02:14 PM

We also aren't sure what bran will be capable of. Simply because bloodraven can't do certain things, it doesn't mean bran won't. Bran is starting his training at a much earlier age then bloodraven. And every individual has different talents. We may see things from bran that neither bloodraven or us readers thought possible. As for melisandre and her fear that bran and bloodraven r disciples of the great other, perhaps they will find a way to communicate with her. Who knows what would come of their communication, but that exchange of info between these two powers would be very interesting to read.

#20 Whitering

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

Mel is, in my mind, on the good team, and smart but misguided woman. She could not know that Dany was going to rebirth the dragons, so she took the next logical leap. Her only huge failing in my mind (other than being a bit of a religious nut), is that upon hearing about Dany, she didn't leap up and head back to her, but by then the Others had been brought to her direct attention.

Like it or not, other than maybe Brynden, she is the most personally powerful person in the books so far, and well, Brynden is dying fast, so Bran may pick up that mantle, but why undue Mel? She's on the right team, pointed squarely at the Others.

I suppose maybe, if the theories are correct that the Children are in league somehow with the Others then she would be his enemy, but otherwise? She's burned a few Weirwoods but those are trees, not very important compared to the tens of thousands of people the Other's will slaughter if she's not around to be burning them to a crisp. Heh, I know it doesn't fit into the series, but I think after my hybrid zon my second character in D2 was a fire sorc, I would love if she busted that kit out lol