Rereading Tyrion V (ASOS-ADWD)

[Uncat]

Yes, that is that thing about the riddle, that always ha me wondering: What if the man with the sword comes to realize, that he can cut through this decisition like through a knot? That all, that those three have to offer is nothing he needs. The riddle does not only show, how Vary's world works. It also shows his worst nightmare, the failire of the system that occures, once the one with the sword realizes, that he does not need to obey anyone of those three. Then again, Varis certainly sees himself as such a man.

[butterbumps!]

an aFFC Tyrion-relevant book summary!

summary overview

Though Tyrion doesn’t actually appear in FFC, there are a few plot-lines directly and tangentially related to him. I’m going to elaborate on some of these more than others, but here’s a brief list of plots intersecting with Tyrion:

• The aftermath of Tyrion’s escape, told from the perspectives of both Cersei and Jaime; Rugen (who is actually Varys) has also disappeared
  
• Cersei’s increasing paranoia at being killed at Tyrion’s hands, and a growing thirst to exact revenge on him
  
• Jaime’s increasing alienation from Cersei due, in part, from Tyrion’s last words to him
  
• The recent “genocide” of dwarves in Westeros due to Cersei’s search for Tyrion
  
• Both Jaime and Kevan reject Cersei’s appointment of them as Hand
  
• Genna’s assessment of the Lannister siblings, positing Tyrion as Tywin’s true son
  
• We see a continuation of the Dorne plot, in which Tyrion has been at least tangentially involved
  
• Brienne wanders around the Riverlands in search of Tyrion’s wife, Sansa, who, like Tyrion, is also accused of regicide. Pod, Tyrion’s former squire, follows her.
  
• LF reveals plans to marry Sansa to one Harry the Heir despite her already being married to Tyrion. Lyanna Stark has a really interesting thread questioning both Tyrion’s and Sans’s potential bigamy and how LF might work around that, here:
  

odd tidbits

Here’s a couple of little gems I found that might not amount to much, but might become important/ interesting:

• Mord has gold teeth, which he bought with the gold Tyrion gave him back in aGoT.
  
• Tyrion had explored the Darry castle away from the group during their stay there before aGoT (on their way to Winterfell). He told Jaime that he found a vast assortment of Targ tapestries depicting Aegon I- Aerys II.
  
• It seems that there are multiple kinds of sorcery. Qyburn tells Cersei that Bloodmagic is the darkest form, though some say it’s the most powerful as well.
  

Cersei I:

Cersei has a dream in which she’s sitting the throne, loved and adored, but suddenly realizes that she’s naked. As the throne begins to ungulf her, she sees Tyrion “capering below, laughing” at her. She’s awoken by the KG to learn that Tywin has been murdered; when she arrives at the scene, he’s furious at his manner of death, as well as the fact that she was the last to be informed. Cersei feels a combination of fear (no one is safe if Tywin could be killed), fury (a Lannister should not be murdered in a privy), and a sense of joy (she can rule in her own right now) as the investigation continues.

She’s confused and angry when she realizes the second body lying beside Tywin: Shae. She’s disappointed in Tywin for turning to whores, but Qyburn feeds her a nice lie: “Perhaps his lordship was questioning the girl about her mistress [sansa].” Cersei happily buys this lie, and commands those present never to speak of Shae. Interestingly, her conscience takes the voice of Tyrion as she imagines him mocking her for accepting this lie: “She could see Tyrion leering, his mouth twisted into a monkey’s grin beneath the ruin of his nose. And what better way to question her than naked, with her legs well spread? the dwarf whispered. That’s how I like to question her too.”

We also get information on Shae’s involvement in Tyrion’s trial: “Shae, her name was Shae. They had last spoken the night before the dwarf’s trial by combat, after that smiling Dornish snake offered to champion him. Shae had been asking about some jewels Tyrion had given her, and certain promises Cersei might have made, a manse in the city and a knight to marry her. The queen made it plain that the whore would have nothing of her until she told them where Sansa Stark had gone. “You were her maid. Do you expect me to believe that you knew nothing of her plans?” she had said. Shae left in tears.” It seems that Shae’s testimony was one part opportunism, one part coercion.

Cersei thinks she should ask Varys to investigate, then realizes he’s the only counselor who hasn’t shown up. She correctly pieces together that Varys must have been a part of this, though she erroneously believes he’s gone over to Stannis. Finally, the investigators realize that Tyrion has escaped without a trace, as has Rugen, the jailor. Cersei is beside herself, and we get the first hints of the Maggy prophesy: “He is in the walls. He killed Father as he killed Mother, as he killed Joff. The dwarf would come for her as well, the queen knew, just as the old woman had promised her in the dimness of that tent. I laughed in her face, but she had powers. I saw my future in a drop of blood. My doom. Her legs were weak as water. Ser Boros tried to take her by the arm, but the queen recoiled from his touch. For all she knew he might be one of Tyrion’s creatures…It is blood I need, not water. Tyrion’s blood, the blood of the valonqar. The torches spun around her. Cersei closed her eyes, and saw the dwarf grinning at her. No, she thought, no, I was almost rid of you. But his fingers had closed around her neck, and she could feel them beginning to tighten.”

Cersei II

It’s the first day of Tywin’s funeral, and the turnout is poor due to rain, as well as the smallfolk’s lack of love for the man: “King’s Landing had never loved Lord Tywin. He never wanted love, though. “You cannot eat love, nor buy a horse with it, nor warm your halls on a cold night,” she heard him tell Jaime once, when her brother had been no older than Tommen.” Cersei realizes that the High Septon was appointed by Tyrion, and she worries what her brother may have said of her.

Unhappy with having to wear mourning clothes again, she thinks with glee on the day Tyrion dies. In fact, she’s littered the Kingdom with ravens, offering anyone who brings her Tyrion’s head will be given a high lordship regardless of birth: “At least I will not be expected to don mourning for Tyrion. I shall dress in crimson silk and cloth-of-gold for that, and wear rubies in my hair. The man who brought her the dwarf’s head would be raised to lordship, she had proclaimed, no matter how mean and low his birth or station. Ravens were carrying her promise to every part of the Seven Kingdoms, and soon enough word would cross the narrow sea to the Nine Free Cities and the lands beyond. Let the Imp run to the ends of the earth, he will not escape me.” She’s becoming obsessed with killing him, as she believes he's out to kill her first.

Tywin’s smile and closed eyes vex Cersei. She recalls that her father never smiled, and sees his closed eyes as almost an emasculation of his power: “That half smile made Lord Tywin seem less fearful, somehow. That, and the fact that his eyes were closed. Her father’s eyes had always been unsettling; pale green, almost luminous, flecked with gold. His eyes could see inside you, could see how weak and worthless and ugly you were down deep. When he looked at you, you knew.” We also get a short recollection of Tywin from Cersei’s childhood: “Unbidden, a memory came to her, of the feast King Aerys had thrown when Cersei first came to court, a girl as green as summer grass. Old Merryweather had been nattering about raising the duty on wine when Lord Rykker said, “If we need gold, His Grace should sit Lord Tywin on his chamber pot.” Aerys and his lickspittles laughed loudly, whilst Father stared at Rykker over his wine cup. Long after the merriment had died that gaze had lingered. Rykker turned away, turned back, met Father’s eyes, then ignored them, drank a tankard of ale, and stalked off red-faced, defeated by a pair of unflinching eyes.

Lord Tywin’s eyes are closed forever now, Cersei thought. It is my look they will flinch from now, my frown that they must fear. I am a lion too.” Cersei seems to simultaneously revere and disdain her father for alleged weakness as this, truly believing that she will become and transcend him.

One last Tyrion note is information Qyburn uncovers about Rugen. He did a more thorough search of Rugen’s chambers, and found a hidden opening with a single gold coin. The coin is old, with an engraving of Garth XII Gardener on it. Cersei immediately turns her suspicions to Highgarden and the Tyrells.

Jaime I

Jaime is consumed by guilt about freeing Tyrion, since it led to Tywin’s murder. He feels as responsible as Tyrion in this: My hand is hungry for a sword. I need to kill someone. Varys, for a start, but first I’d need to find the rock he’s hiding under. “I commanded the eunuch to take him to a ship, not to your bedchamber,” he told the corpse. “The blood is on his hands as much as . . . as Tyrion’s.” The blood is on his hands as much as mine, he meant to say, but the words stuck in his throat. Whatever Varys did, I made him do.” From Jaime’s POV, we get a breakdown of the events that happened on the night Tyrion escaped: he overpowered Varys and coerced him to release Tyrion. Varys dosed the turnkeys wine to knock them out, and gave explicit orders that no one should be harmed in this caper. I, personally, think that Varys had always intended to free Tyrion, but believe he was waiting for the last possible moment in case someone came to intervene, as Jaime had.

Jaime feels melancholy that Tyrion has been sullied as a kinslayer. He almost wishes that he knew that Tyrion intended to kill Tywin so that he could have stopped him, and thinks this would have made him the kinslayer instead. Jaime has a flashback to the days of serving Rhaegar, which leads him to remark on Tywin’s corpse smile as Cersei had: “Aerys thought no harm could come to him if he kept me near,” he told his father’s corpse. “Isn’t that amusing?” Lord Tywin seemed to think so; his smile was wider than before. He seems to enjoy being dead. It was queer, but he felt no grief. Where are my tears? Where is my rage? Jaime Lannister had never lacked for rage. “Father,” he told the corpse, “it was you who told me that tears were a mark of weakness in a man, so you cannot expect that I should cry for you.”

Like his twin, he’s emotional conflicted about Tywin’s death, but he doesn’t seem to share Cersei’s reverence, disdain or anger; for Jaime, this death evokes guilt and numbness, perhaps even something of relief, as he rationalizes why he’s not distraught by turning his lack of emotion back on his father.

He also notes that Tywin was little loved: “A thousand lords and ladies had come that morning to file past the bier, and several thousand smallfolk after noon. They wore somber clothes and solemn faces, but Jaime suspected that many and more were secretly delighted to see the great man brought low. Even in the west, Lord Tywin had been more respected than beloved, and King’s Landing still remembered the Sack.”

Jaime criticizes Tyrion’s decision to shave Pycelle, calling it the “cruelest thing Tyrion could have done” given that Jaime knows what it’s like to lose a part of oneself.

Jaime actually ends up audibly laughing at the absurdity of his father’s corpse smile, bitterly thinking of his contribution to the kingdom: “Every crow in the Seven Kingdoms should pay homage to you, Father. From Castamere to the Blackwater, you fed them well. That notion pleased Lord Tywin; his smile widened further. Bloody hell, he’s grinning like a bridegroom at his bedding.” Jaime sees his father’s legacy as “a feast for crows,” a long line of corpses slaughtered for some intangible gain. He sees a black humour in the whole situation: “The sound echoed through the transepts and crypts and chapels, as if the dead interred within the walls were laughing too. Why not? This is more absurd than a mummer’s farce, me standing vigil for a father I helped to slay, sending men forth to capture the brother I helped to free . . . He had commanded Ser Addam Marbrand to search the Street of Silk. “Look under every bed, you know how fond my brother is of brothels.” The gold cloaks would find more of interest beneath the whores’ skirts than beneath their beds. He wondered how many bastard children would be born of the pointless search.”

Cersei approaches Jaime again to ask if he’ll take the Hand position as Kevan refused. She believes that Tyrion told him about the incest.

Cersei III

Marg and Tommen are wed in a fairly frugal ceremony. Cersei announces her plans to have the Tower of the Hand burned after the festivities. She claims that she wishes to burn the tower in order to smoke out Varys and Tyrion, whom she believes are hiding in the many passages they uncovered in the search. Jaime tells her that it is nearly impossible the destruction of the tower will uncover them, as he and his men reduced it to a shell already. He remarks that she sounds like Aerys, which enrages her.

While watching Marg, Cersei recalls a prophesy Maggy the Frog gave her as a girl: “Queen you shall be…until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.” This sounds quite similar to the words Tyrion said back in aCoK: “I will hurt you for this. I don’t know how yet, but give me time. A day will come when you think yourself safe and happy, and suddenly your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth, and you’ll know the debt is paid,” and analogous to her dream in Cersei I as well.

Cersei IV

Cersei is presented with the head of a dwarf; he’s the sparrow Brienne met at an inn in all likelihood. Her promise of lordship has instigated a witch hunt for dwarf heads, including even an “ugly child.” Given the discussion of Tyrion and the Faith in this thread, it’s interesting that the dwarf head presentation we’re privy to is a sparrow substituted for Tyrion.

Cersei and the council discuss the appointment of a new High Septon; the one Tyrion had appointed had died in his sleep. Cersei insists that the new HS must “excommunicate” Tyrion, as the last HS was “conspicuously silent” on that subject. There’s discussion about LF, including mention of his letter saying nothing save for a request for Robert’s tapestries. During the discussion, Cersei plainly refuses to pay back the Iron Bank despite her councilors’ pleas. This council meeting also includes the hatching of Cersei’s plot to remove Jon Snow.

She falls asleep dreaming of bronzing Tyrion’s head and keeping it in her chamberpot.

Jaime III

Jaime thinks on Tyrek’s disappearance quite insightfully: “Yet afterward, alone in the tower room he had been offered for the night, Jaime found himself wondering. Tyrek had served King Robert as a squire, side by side with Lancel. Knowledge could be more valuable than gold, more deadly than a dagger. It was Varys he thought of then, smiling and smelling of lavender. The eunuch had agents and informers all over the city. It would have been a simple matter for him to arrange to have Tyrek snatched during the confusion . . . provided he knew beforehand that the mob was like to riot. And Varys knew all, or so he would have us believe. Yet he gave Cersei no warning of that riot. Nor did he ride down to the ships to see Myrcella off.” At least to Jaime, it seems that the mystery of Tyrek is Varys’ work. Interesting that Jaime puts together some of Varys’ methods, and Tyrion figures out LF’s.

Jaime V

Jaime speaks with his Aunt Gemma at the siege camp. She has an opposite take on Tywin’s corpse smile than the twins. She’s disappointed to hear that it was only the rot twisting his lips, as she claims he smiled often (Tyrion has explicitly commented that Tywin never smiled, though). He may have smiled, but Gemma confirms that the man never laughed: “No. Tywin mistrusted laughter. He heard too many people laughing at your grandsire.” She frowned. “I promise you, this mummer’s farce of a siege would not have amused him. How do you mean to end it, now that you’re here?”

All of the Lannisters, save Jaime, mistrust laughter it seems.

Jaime and Genna probe each other for advice and information. She summarizes her sibling dynamic, agreeing with Jaime that Kevan might be “too tired” to accept the position of Hand: “I suppose he has a right to be. It has been hard for Kevan, living all his life in Tywin’s shadow. It was hard for all my brothers. That shadow Tywin cast was long and black, and each of them had to struggle to find a little sun. Tygett tried to be his own man, but he could never match your father, and that just made him angrier as the years went by. Gerion made japes. Better to mock the game than to play and lose. But Kevan saw how things stood early on, so he made himself a place by your father’s side.”

She explains Tywin’s character further, confirming much of what we’ve discussed regarding the duality of Tywin’s personal coldness juxtaposed with his extreme familial loyalty: “I was seven when Walder Frey persuaded my lord father to give my hand to Emm. His second son, not even his heir. Father was himself a thirdborn son, and younger children crave the approval of their elders. Frey sensed that weakness in him, and Father agreed for no better reason than to please him. My betrothal was announced at a feast with half the west in attendance. Ellyn Tarbeck laughed and the Red Lion went angry from the hall. The rest sat on their tongues. Only Tywin dared speak against the match. A boy of ten. Father turned as white as mare’s milk, and Walder Frey was quivering.” She smiled. “How could I not love him, after that? That is not to say that I approved of all he did, or much enjoyed the company of the man that he became . . . but every little girl needs a big brother to protect her. Tywin was big even when he was little.” She gave a sigh. “Who will protect us now?”

…. “Jaime,” she said, tugging on his ear, “sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna’s breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there’s some of

Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak . . . but Tyrion is Tywin’s son, not you. I said so once to your father’s face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years.”

Cersei VIII

A Tyroshi man comes to court claiming to have gotten Tyrion’s head. He uses the Valyrian word “valonqar” which triggers Cersei’s memory of the prophecy haunting her. The dwarf’s head has the wrong colored eyes, is bald and apparently twice Tyrion’s age. Furious at the fraudulent head, Cersei sends him to Qyburn.

This chapter gives an in-depth recollection of Cersei’s trip to Maggy. Cersei’s 3 questions:

1. “When will I wed the prince?” she asked.

“Never. You will wed the king.”

2. “I will be queen, though?” asked the younger her.

“Aye.” Malice gleamed in Maggy’s yellow eyes. “Queen you shall be . . . until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all that you hold dear.”

3. “Will the king and I have children?” she asked.

“Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you.”

… “Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds,” she said. “And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.”

Cersei IX

Cersei has an extremely disturbing Tyrion dream: “Cersei dreamt that she was down in the black cells once again, only this time it was her chained to the wall in place of the singer. She was naked, and blood dripped from the tips of her breasts where the Imp had torn off her nipples with his teeth. “Please,” she begged, “please, not my children, do not harm my children.” Tyrion only leered at her. He was naked too, covered with coarse hair that made him look more like a monkey than a man. “You shall see them crowned,” he said, “and you shall see them die.” Then he took her bleeding breast into his mouth and began to suck, and pain sawed through her like a hot knife.”

[Fire Eater]

Tyrion and Cersei are really becoming Tywin and Aerys; an unstable monarch, who fears retribution from a Hand, who is the rightful Lord of Casterly Rock, and who had served the monarch well, for years of mistreatment.

The divinity itself became his [tyrant] terror; for, obviously, if one is oneself one's god, then God himself, the will of God, the power that would destroy one's egocentric system, becomes a monster . . . One is harassed, both day and night, by the divine being that is the image of the living self within the locked labyrinth of one's own disoriented psyche. The ways to the gates have been lost: there is no exit. One can only cling, like Satan, furiously to oneself and be in hell; or else break, and be annihilate at last, in God.

Thus, Tyrion becomes Cersei's monster, the ugly, brutal aspect of herself. Note that she has the dream of Tyrion torturing her like the Blue Bard after she has the Blue Bard tortured.

There is a re-read thread for Cersei's POV, but the OP, Loras, has been away for a while, and I am waiting for someone to restart it.

[Lummel]

Yes, that is that thing about the riddle, that always ha me wondering: What if the man with the sword comes to realize, that he can cut through this decisition like through a knot? That all, that those three have to offer is nothing he needs. The riddle does not only show, how Vary's world works. It also shows his worst nightmare, the failire of the system that occures, once the one with the sword realizes, that he does not need to obey anyone of those three. Then again, Varis certainly sees himself as such a man.

I suppose Jaime is an example of such a man. He disobeys his king, he ignores his oath to the gods and he is not motivated by money when he killed Aerys II. Which takes us back to what Winterfellian was saying about the intrinsic motivation of the man with a sword.

...She falls asleep dreaming of bronzing Tyrion’s head and keeping it in her chamberpot...

Good quotes there Butterbumps! I was areading Tyrion I ADWD and noticed Tyrion thinking of his father shitting on him - so Cersei's desire to have Tyrion's head bronzed for her to keep inher chamberpot stood out. It really is a symbol of just how extreme their views of their nearest and dearest are, GRRM doesn't stop showing us just how worpped this family dynamic is.

...Thus, Tyrion becomes Cersei's monster, the ugly, brutal aspect of herself. Note that she has the dream of Tyrion torturing her like the Blue Bard after she has the Blue Bard tortured.

There is a re-read thread for Cersei's POV, but the OP, Loras, has been away for a while, and I am waiting for someone to restart it.

Yes, quite a decent reread. Loras decided to run his reread Jaime style single handed, which is brave but not something I would advise. But the thread is still there, he can pick it up if and when he wants. My guess is that he was blown off course by work and life (a good guess because that covers most possibilities!), I haven't seen him post recently either.

Cersei's dream there reminds me of Tyrion's dream of himself as Mord whipping his father. Shows just how brutal the family dynamic is. I agree that Cersei recreates Tyrion as 100% pure monster, but then from her POV she has good cause to. We can point to non-monstrous bits of Tyrion but he does tell her that he is doing to have his revenge on her and destroy all she holds dear. Their relationship is monstrous by the end of ASOS and at least cold since Tyrion I AGOT.

I've been reading ahead to get Tyrion II ADWD ready and there really is a lot to cover in each chapter. The ADWD chapters are, I feel, longer and denser. I'm not quite sure how to squeeze a fair summary into a post that doesn't get too long!

[Lykos]

A wonderfull summary of a whole book, I enjoyed it a lot Butterbumps!

Lummel, I would welcome a slower pace actually, but do as you please. Bright Blue Eyes has an interesting thread discussing similarities of Cersei, Tywin and Tyrion.

While I agree with Fire Eater, that Varys is turning Cersei into a mad King mark II, I think that Tyrion is no mini Mussolini or half Hitler and no tiny Tywin either. I think Genna´s remark to Jaime was about Tyrion´s comparable potential for greatness, though I wonder what apart from confronting Tytos on her (House Lannister´s) behalf made Tywin look so great (even when he was little) in her view, when she thought him a thundering great fool concerning Tyrion.

That Tyrion sees himself as Tywin a little smaller is one of his problems, but I don´t think it´s true.

There is something of a full circle regarding defecation and the smell of feces.

The Lord of Casterly Rock made such an impressive figure that it was a shock when his destrier dropped a load of dung right at the base of the throne. Joffrey had to step gingerly around it as he descended to embrace his grandfather and proclaim him Savior of the City.

Clash, Chapter 64 Sansa.

"Mother." Tommen tugged her sleeve. "What smells so bad?"

My lord father. Death." She could smell it too: a faint whisper of decay that made her want to wrinkle her nose.

Feast, Cersei.

A case of "Kindermund tut Wahrheit kund." reminding me of "The Emperor´s New Clothes".

ETA: The more I think about it, the more similarities between Tyrion´s and Quentin´s story become apparent. We should watch out for those.

[Lummel]

On Pace

The question of pace is tricky. For me there is a tension between giving as many people as possible an opportunity to have their say on a chapter on the one hand and on the other needing to move on enough to keep other people's interest and keeping the chapters fresh in people's minds.

I think we went with the target of two chapters a week / one chapter every three to four days because it was what had been done in the from pawn to player reread. With three of us hosting that works quite well as you do a chapter once every nine days or so days.

Sometimes it seems as though we exhaust a chapter quite quickly and probably could move faster, sometimes we probably move a bit too fast and curtail the chat. I don't think there is a correct balance, it's a lose-lose situation really :laugh:

Lannister scatology

Long ago when I was a student one of my lectures was on medieval agriculture and peasants. The lecturer, who was an odd man (by the smell of him his clothes weren't much washed and a pair of dogs would always follow him, you had to mind your feet in seminars as they would lay down under the tables) chalked up on the board:

shit=oats=food or in a version for those of us who weren't good at maths shit=food

The point being that before the Haber-Bosch process was developed early in the 20th century giving us fancy industrial chemical fertilisers manure was the most important and the most widely available fertiliser (this had unpleasant consequences for the native population of Easter Island who were deported to the coast f Chille to shovel guano into ships for sale on the world market). So shit then was the foundation of most medieval power (manure=more fertile land=more crops or animals=more manpower or money) and naturally you could get into virtuous cycles were having more animals meant you would have more manure which you could use to fertile more land to produce more crops to feed more animals or vicious cycles in which the reverse would occur.

Now the interesting point for me is that all that is irrelevant (apparently) as far as the Lannisters are concerned. Because we are told repeatedly that the source of their power is not agriculture but gold mines. The Tyrells and their bannermen have the rich agricultural lands. The Lannisters and their bannermen command mines (not always productive see the westerlings). However it is the Lannisters, not the Tyrells who so far have been most strongly associated with the shit motif.

I think the shit motif or Lannister scatology is there for two reasons. One to undercut the brilliance and the pride of the Lannisters, the other to indicate their extreme arrogance. That this is carried over into their personal lives - Tyrion in Tyrion I ADWD thinks of his father taking a shit on him, Cersei in Cersei IV AFFC thinks of executing her bowel and or bladder motions over Tyrion's bronzed head really shows how extreme and visceral their family feelings are.

[Danelle]

I think the shit motif or Lannister scatology is there for two reasons. One to undercut the brilliance and the pride of the Lannisters, the other to indicate their extreme arrogance. That this is carried over into their personal lives - Tyrion in Tyrion I ADWD thinks of his father taking a shit on him, Cersei in Cersei IV AFFC thinks of executing her bowel and or bladder motions over Tyrion's bronzed head really shows how extreme and visceral their family feelings are.

Interesting post!

The only thing that I would like to add in regards to the personal lives of Lannisters is Catelyn Stark's opinion on Jaime Lannister's honour:

"Your honor as a Lannister is worth less than this." She kicked over the waste pail. Foul-smelling brown ooze crept across the floor of the cell, soaking into the straw.

[Lummel]

Good point Danelle, GRRM gives us that type of juxtaposition with the lannisters, grandeur and shit, quite a few times. I'm fairly sure that it is unique to them too. In comparison with say, the Starks, it's clear who the villains and who the better guys are.

[Lykos]

Yes, I thought there might be a problem with a slower pace.

And hmm, I remember a story from a movie , told as a kind of morale at the end by one of the actresses (Maria Schrader).

There was a mouse running from a lion. The mouse met an elephant and asked him for help. The elephant said. "I don´t want to get involved, but I can hide you." "Good." Said the mouse and the elephant shat on the mouse.

Only the mouse´s tail poked out of the heap of dung wriggling and twitching with fear. When the lion came, he pulled the mouse out at it´s tail and ate it. The lesson to learn is as follows.

• Not everyone, who shits on you, is ill - disposed towards you.
  
• Not everyone, who pulls you out of the shit, wishes you well.
  

I always liked this little story, but it wasn´t very helpful.

[Danelle]

Perhaps there is a juxtaposition with LF and what he told Sansa

Clean hands, Sansa. Whatever you do, make certain your hands are clean

Lannisters, especially Tyrion and Tywin, both of them Hands, were not subtle in regards to their actions, unlike LF whose actions are always covered by others, such as Joffrey or Olenna.

In Westeros there was also a saying :

What the king dreams, the Hand builds

but smallfolk paraphrase it as :

The king eats, and the Hand takes the shit

In the TV series Jaime Lannister tells Eddard Stark that

The King shits, and the Hand wipes

I think that it is an overall reference to the fact that power corrupts and is associated with deacy, moral and physical.

In regards to the smell of Tywin's corpse, I was always reminded of Lady Macbeth

all the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand

[butterbumps!]

ETA: The more I think about it, the more similarities between Tyrion´s and Quentin´s story become apparent. We should watch out for those.

Interesting you mention this Lykos. While rereading for this summary, I got a bit carried away rereading the Dorne chapters. There wasn't really enough that directly related to Tyrion for me to include in a summary here, but given that we are first introduced to this plot through Tyrion, I was keen on keeping tabs on it while we read DwD. For instance, I think it's quite interesting that Doran and Oberyn have the same designs on Tyrion that Varys does: separate Tyrion from his family to use his knowledge for their causes, as well as turn him against his family.

It seems that the Martells were going to use Myrcella's being in Dorne to declare her Queen so that Cersei and Tywin would be set in opposition to each other in the most optimized scenario, or goading united Lannisters into war over which child takes the throne. Myrcella's queenship was likely just a contrivance to get the Lannisters to self destruct, so without Tywin in the picture, it seems the plan has changed.

I'm quite interested in the intersections between Doran and Varys/ Illyrio's objectives, both of which Tyrion is swept into during DwD. We know that the Martells have some investment in Dany, given Quentyn's mission, and will be looking toward Aegon later. Not to get too far ahead, but I wondered if Varys had counted on Tyrion's persona to speed things up with Aegon's getting to Westeros (and eventually meeting up with the Martells), and more generally, wondered just how much the V+I team overlapped with the Martells. Some questions I have to this end are whether Varys intended Dany and Aegon to ever meet up; I wonder if he expected Tyrion to prompt Aegon to Westeros (he did request that Illyrio "speed things up" back in aGoT), and I wonder if Varys actually wanted Tyrion to end up with Dany rather than Aegon as a rogue departure from his plan with Illyrio.

Not to answer these question now, but after going over the Dorne plot in Feast, these are questions I'm particularly looking out for as we go through Dance.

In terms of a possible Tyrion/ Quentyn parallel, here's a link to a summary of Q's chapters in DwD.

[Lummel]

...I always liked this little story, but it wasn´t very helpful.

The version I heard featured a little bird and a cat (very appropriate for ASOIAF!)

Perhaps there is a juxtaposition with LF and what he told Sansa

Lannisters, especially Tyrion and Tywin, both of them Hands, were not subtle in regards to their actions, unlike LF whose actions are always covered by others, such as Joffrey or Olenna.

In Westeros there was also a saying :

but smallfolk paraphrase it as :

In the TV series Jaime Lannister tells Eddard Stark that

I think that it is an overall reference to the fact that power corrupts and is associated with deacy, moral and physical.

In regards to the smell of Tywin's corpse, I was always reminded of Lady Macbeth

I don't think the scatological lannisters feeds into the clean/dirty hands motif, I agree there is the Hand takes the shit quote, but I'm not convinced (yet).

I like the Lord Acton, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely angle, but I'm fairly sure that we only get the shit motif with the lannisters and not with the other great lordly and often no less corrupt families like the Baratheons or Tyrells. The likes of Doran Martell having consideration for his people or The Ned are unusual but it is the Lannisters who are most associated with shit.

But the Lady MacBeth angle is great - and again there we have the clean hands idea, also the self-fulfilling prophecy - probably other parallels I don't remember too :)

Interesting you mention this Lykos. While rereading for this summary, I got a bit carried away rereading the Dorne chapters. There wasn't really enough that directly related to Tyrion for me to include in a summary here, but given that we are first introduced to this plot through Tyrion, I was keen on keeping tabs on it while we read DwD. For instance, I think it's quite interesting that Doran and Oberyn have the same designs on Tyrion that Varys does: separate Tyrion from his family to use his knowledge for their causes, as well as turn him against his family...

In terms of a possible Tyrion/ Quentyn parallel, here's a link to a summary of Q's chapters in DwD.

I noticed that Tyrion I ADWD is followed by a Daenerys chapter directly after Illyrio tells Tyrion about the road to Casterly Rock that doesn't go via the Wall or Dorne and that in Tyrion II our hero starts on his journey and there is a discussion on how to get to Daenerys and her plans and that chapter is directly followed by Quentyn I which has the same concerns (just trying to whet your appetites here!)

...ETA: The more I think about it, the more similarities between Tyrion´s and Quentin´s story become apparent. We should watch out for those.

Yes, an awful lot, very similar missions, disrupted journeys...of course we'll have to see how the Daenerys/Tyrion meeting will go but there probably is the a similar difference between the objectives of both men and those of the Queen. As characters both Tyrion and Quentyn are in the shadows of their fathers and very aware of their fathers as role models.

[Ragnorak]

Nice work Butterbumps. Thank you for digging through the entire book.

Lykos, I really enjoyed the thread Bright Blue Eyes had on Tywin, Tyrion Cersei. I think it fits well with WK's thread on Tyrion and Cersei. The two seem to suggest that Tywin is somewhere between the spectrum of Tyrion and Cersei-- a man with some of Tyrion's skill and some of Cersei's fatal flaws. I think this presents a fruitful prism to view Tywin through to try and better understand him.

I had forgotten about the Tarbecks and Reynes reacting at Genna's betrothal. It seems a marriage was at the root of that conflict as well. It seems the Red Lion had designs on Genna and had reason to make a public display of disapproval. That makes Genna, Dorne and Rhaegar as a running theme of defining marriage moments in Lannister history.

Genna, Kevan and Tywin present a bit of a parallel with Cersei, Tyrion, and Tywin. The unity in the last generation certainly contrasts with the current crop of Lannisters but I had forgotten that Gerion and Tygett were family casualties of a sort from their generation. Genna's shadow metaphor makes this about power (given Varys riddle) and the sun reference has always been a Lannister one. The implication is that there was no room for Tygett or Gerion to be "Lannisters" in Tywin's ascent to power. In thinking about this it is interesting that the Tyrells feast on the spoils of war yet Kevan is never rewarded with something that would give him independence (though his sons are.)

Lummel, you've managed to elevate "shit" to an intellectual discourse-- bravo! The agriculture vs gold stuff is absolutely fantastic. Something in there made me think of Hamlet and his talk of the King > worm > fish > man eating cycle.

[Lummel]

...Something in there made me think of Hamlet and his talk of the King > worm > fish > man eating cycle.

?

Marriage and family. That is the centre of Westeros politics. The sources of feuds, wars, peace and prosperity. They are the key events I think to look for and pay attention to.

[Ragnorak]

?

Marriage and family. That is the centre of Westeros politics. The sources of feuds, wars, peace and prosperity. They are the key events I think to look for and pay attention to.

Now you made me go dig up the quote...

Not where he eats, but where he is eaten. A certain convocation of politic worms are e'en at him. Your worm is your only emperor for diet. We fat all creatures else to fat us, and we fat ourselves for maggots. Your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable service—two dishes, but to one table. That’s the end.

A man may fish with the worm that hath eat of a king, and eat of the fish that hath fed of that worm.

Nothing but to show you how a king may go a progress through the guts of a beggar.

All men must die and Lannister Scatology in one reference. One day some peasant in KL will shit out Tywin because Tyrion paid to have the fish market rebuilt.

[Lyanna Stark]

Oh I am in awe of your Hamlet parallel. :) Superb!

Loved the AFFC write up butterbumps!

Was I the only one pondering how Tyrion really works as a chisel that breaks how Jaime and Cersei used to be "one"? Post Tywin's death, he really seems to be at the bottom of most, if not all, their chisms. It's a huge difference from in AGOT when Jaime asks Tyrion whose side he is on after he has just shoved Bran out the window. At that point, Cersei and Jaime seem as one unit and questioning whether Tyrion is "with us or against us", but in AFFC Tyrion is absent, and Cersei and Jaime are one no more.

[Lummel]

...All men must die and Lannister Scatology in one reference. One day some peasant in KL will shit out Tywin because Tyrion paid to have the fish market rebuilt.

excellent :) All flesh is grass.

...Was I the only one pondering how Tyrion really works as a chisel that breaks how Jaime and Cersei used to be "one"? Post Tywin's death, he really seems to be at the bottom of most, if not all, their chisms. It's a huge difference from in AGOT when Jaime asks Tyrion whose side he is on after he has just shoved Bran out the window. At that point, Cersei and Jaime seem as one unit and questioning whether Tyrion is "with us or against us", but in AFFC Tyrion is absent, and Cersei and Jaime are one no more.

Well yes but...

Tyrion tells Jaime that Cersei has slept with other men to hurt him in revenge for Jaime telling him the truth about Tysha, so maybe it is a case of knowledge breaking the chains of slavery? Or indeed that the truth shall set you free?

I don't think it is Tyrion as such who is the chisel, it is the truth that shovels through the augean stables of Lannister lies mayhaps?

[Lyanna Stark]

Yes, but then Tyrion doesn't really tell the entire truth either? :)

He didn't kill Joffrey and his commentary about Cersei is also false to a degree, she didn't sleep with Moonboy. Yet those things seem to torment his other siblings later. Cersei goes bonkers since she thinks Tyrion actually murdered Joffrey and Jaime does keep listing "moonboy" even if moonbody perhaps is less important in itself than the concept itself.

[Lummel]

You are quite right Lyanna. I suppose it is less Tyrion as chisel as moving from a dynamic of deceit to one of pain, in which all the siblings want to do is hurt each other. I suppose it is all about Jaime and Tywin from my point of view. Both Tyrion and Cersei looked to Jaime and Tywin for love and validation, but at the end of ASOS Jaime upsets all that with his revelation and the new dynamic is all about hurting each other.

That dynamic of pain had been there previously - but only between Cersei and tyrion. Now Tywin will die and all three siblings are at arms length from each other as a result of Jaime telling the truth.

It's the downfall of the house of Lannister.

[butterbumps!]

Tyrion I (DwD)

or “a drunken dwarf wonders where whores go, pt 1”

This is the first Tyrion chapter since last we saw him musing on the fact that "in the end, Tywin Lannister did not shit gold." Much happens this chapter, so I'm breaking the summary; part 2 (of 2) will be posted shortly.

overview

Tyrion is on board a ship taking him across the Narrow Sea, and extremely drunk as he’s apparently been throughout this journey. When the ship arrives at its destination (still unknown to Tyrion), he’s placed in a cask of wine to hide his identity, to be delivered to Illyrio who “decants” him. Illyrio lets him know that he’s a welcomed guest as a friend of Varys, which makes Tyrion extremely suspicious of Illyrio. As Tyrion lowers himself into a bath, he falls asleep.

He awakes in a bed, and goes to the window to piece together which city he’s ended up in: Pentos. Illyrio comes in and lets Tyrion know he will have no need for brothels here, as Illyrio’s servants are technically slaves. Before leaving for a magisters’ meeting, Illyrio offers Tyrion full access to the manse, but tells him not to venture off the premises, as he wants his harboring of Tyrion to remain a secret.

Tyrion makes his way around the premises, finding a wine cellar, trying to talk to the kitchen staff, and coming upon a courtyard where a woman is folding laundry. Realizing she too won’t speak back, he drunkenly talks at her and pockets some poison mushrooms before falling into a drunken stupor.

He wakes up, again finding himself in bed. A servant is there to prepare him for dinner, and offers herself to him as well. Tyrion declines. However, he’s unhappy at her response to that, and so changes his mind, threatening her in the process. At dinner, Illyrio discusses plans for Tyrion. After a tense moment where Illyrio implies he’s aiding Tyrion in his death wish, they speak of political strategy. Illyrio points out that neither STannis and the NW, nor the crowning of Myrcella in Dorne will bring Tyrion what he truly desires: Casterly Rock. He suggests that what Westeros (and Tyrion) truly need is found in the East: “a dragon with three heads.”

observations

• There are a great deal of silent people encountered in this chapter: everyone save the captain on the ship seems to be, as well as the kitchen staff and the washerwoman; however, the sex slaves seem to speak. Some or all of these may be mute, and perhaps even former little birds.
  
• Tyrion knows how to read High Valyrian, and is conversant in Braavosi and Myrish. He knows enough Tyroshi to get by as well, which he learned from a sellsword at Casterly.
  
• The finely made child’s garments Tyrion finds at Illyrio’s to wear are one of the pieces of evidence used in many Aegon Blackfyre debates.
  

analysis

The theme of “intoxication to the point of oblivion” pervades this chapter multiply. Tyrion is full of self-loathing and guilt, which he considers alleviating through drink, suicide, absolving his sins or creating more of them, and finally “redemption” through taking Casterly Rock.

“A drunken dwarf” meets “a rotting sea cow”

We get out first view of Tyrion since killing his father in aSoS, and it isn’t pretty. He’s apparently drank himself into torpor, as he has throughout the entire exile from Westeros. He thinks of the wine as “nourishing,” and reflects on the fact that his father “never had any use for drunkards. But what did that matter? His father was dead. He’d killed him. A Bolt in the belly, my lord, and all for you. If only I was better with a crossbow, I would have put it through that cock you made me with, you bloody bastard.” It’s an interesting choice of fantasy. Tyrion effectively killed his father through the groin, but wishes he localized the damage through the penis instead, and specifically the penis from which Tyrion was made. It’s a fantasy that simultaneously suggests emasculating his father, as well as indicates his own self-loathing; Tyrion condemns his own existence.

When a cabin boy appears to care for him, Tyrion attempts to engage him in conversation, but the boy remains silent. He attempts to get a rise out of the boy, and especially wants to know where they are headed. As he tries to get a response out of the boy, Tyrion thinks through his options: Dorne or the Wall. He decides that maybe he would like to run away to Dorne to raise Myrcella, but considers that this might be a dangerous scheme now that Oberyn is dead. Perhaps cautious Doran would turn him over to Cersei. He thinks about heading to the Wall, recalling that Mormont appreciated his qualities once. Yet, he remembers that Mormont could be dead, and that he sent an angry Janos Slynt there, who might enjoy taking revenge on him. This option doesn’t seem appealing either.

Tyrion asks the cabin boy if he knows where whores go, which is met by silence. Tyrion realizes that the boy might not speak the Common Tongue, and ponders the languages he’s learnt over the years. His thoughts of Tyroshi are interesting. He mentions being able to communicate specific vulgarities through this language: “In Tyrosh he should be able to curse the gods, call a man a cheat, and order up an ale, thanks to a sellsword he had once known at the Rock.”

The wine excesses are clearly a form of self-medication, and he purposely drink enough to be able to fall asleep. He’s thankful that he has ceased dreaming, by which he means both literal REM dreams and idealism: “And of such follies: love, justice, friendship, glory. As well dream of being tall. It was all beyond his reach, Tyrion knew now. But he did not know where whores go.” He replays the scene in the privy in which he shot his father, remembers his father’s last words, the sound of the crossbow and the smell of the bowels, finally admitting to himself how hateful his father truly was: “Even in his dying, he found a way to shit on me.”

We get Tyrion’s version of his escape, which seems fairly calm and almost lucid and businesslike. Tyrion thinks back on his rationale in loosing the bolt: “If I had not loosed, he would have seen my threats were empty. He would have taken the crossbow from my hands, as once he took Tysha from my arms. He was rising when I killed him.” I find this extremely complex in particular. On one hand, the fact that Tyrion has learned to take no half measures is very much his father’s lesson, but the very reason he chose to confront his father is very un-Tywin-like; it was about being torn from a woman he loved, not caring she was too low-born for a Lannister. Tyrion is filled with much hate, but he can’t bear to think of Jaime, as it’s too painful.

He continues to get thoroughly drunk until they arrive at port and Tyrion kicks and screams as he’s forced into a wine cask: “He was lifted and lowered, rolled and stacked, upended and righted and rolled again.” I think this short trip in a cask is something of a microcosm describing Tyrion’s journey since perhaps even before aGoT—he’s been blinded and manipulated into a kind of drifting, perhaps futile existence, suffocated by the lack of control he both been given and allows himself.

When Illyrio opens the pleasant vintage, they have a humorous exchange, and Tyrion is welcomed to his manse on behalf of Varys. Tyrion is extremely angry with Varys for having seemingly betrayed him, and thinks: “And any friend of Varys the Spider is someone I will trust just as far as I can throw him.”

Pentos, huh

Tyrion awakes clean, naked and in a feather bed in a scene that reminds me of the chapter following the Blackwater battle. He’s been remedied and “delivered” while unconscious to a seemingly safe, innocuous room, though not knowing where exactly, except this time he is able to liberate himself from the bed. Like Dany did in her first chapters in Ilyrio’s manse, Tyrion goes to the window and inventories the surroundings, piecing together that he must be in Pentos.

Illyrio comes into the room to speak with him, and Tyrion immediately asks him where whores go. Thinking Tyrion wants intercourse, Illyrio tells him they’re found in brothels, but that he will have no need of buying one, as none of his servants will refuse. Tyrion asks directly if they are slaves, but Illyrio hedges, saying that slaves are illegal here, but that they are slaves nonetheless. This is also strikingly similar to our introduction to Dany back in aGoT, where she likewise deduced that these servants were de facto slaves as well. One more potentially significant similarity is Tyrion and Dany’s innate mistrust of Illyrio. Tyrion keenly thinks, “Should a day ever dawn when Illyrio Mopatis saw more profit in a dead dwarf than a live one, Tyrion would find himself packed into another wine cask by dusk.” Dany also knew Illyrio was not helping her out of the goodness of his heart.

Illyrio leaves for a meeting, and Tyrion’s left alone with his thoughts, which drift to Tysha. He finally admits that “he helped his father’s guardsmen rape her,” and seems to grasp the enormity that actually took place: “It reminded him of how Tysha would riffle his hair during the false spring of their marriage, before he helped his father’s guardsmen rape her. He had been thinking of those guardsmen during his flight, trying to recall how many there had been. You would think he might remember that, but no. A dozen? A score? A hundred? He could not say. They had all been grown men, tall and strong … though all men were tall to a dwarf of thirteen years. Tysha knew their number. Each of them had given her a silver stag, so she would only need to count the coins. A silver for each and a gold for me. His father had insisted that he pay her too. A Lannister always pays his debts. “Wherever whores go,” he heard Lord Tywin say once more, and once more the bowstring thrummed.”