18 replies to this topic

[locke and key]

People always argue that aery's kingsguard were the most honourable and chivalrous knights in the land now while I don't doubt their honor surely it was a bit hypocritical for them to say they serve only the king in that when Aerys called them to fight on the trident, Arthur dayne, Gerold Hightower and Oswell whent went to protect lyanna stark in the ToJ

Edited by locke and key, 21 January 2013 - 04:32 PM.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

The honor of Aerys' Kingsguard has been much debated, especially since they let Aerys rape Rhaella and abuse her, and let the Mad King do as he liked with Brandon and Rickard Stark.
Dayne, Hightower and Whent were by that time already at the Tower of Joy. Well, Dayne and Whent were, Hightower was send to retrieve them but he chose to stay instead. We don't know what happened, we don't know what Aerys said, or what Rhaegar said to them about the prophecy and Lyanna, whether they believed it, we only know they did not obey the King's orders. From what we know, of course, since we don't exactly know what happened back then.

[eggs]

Is it common knowledge that they ignored Aerys?

[Lady Sansa Stark]

eggs, on 21 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Is it common knowledge that they ignored Aerys?

Common knowledge; perhaps not, but I assume at least some people know of it. The court of Aerys, for example, should know. The rest, including Eddard, has no idea what Aerys said exactly. He might not even know about anything like this at all.

[Full-Faced Braavosi]

Lady Sansa Stark, on 21 January 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Common knowledge; perhaps not, but I assume at least some people know of it. The court of Aerys, for example, should know. The rest, including Eddard, has no idea what Aerys said exactly. He might not even know about anything like this at all.

I believe the question is, is it common knowledge to us readers (i.e. a fact) that Aerys ordered them to the Trident and they ignored him.

[Ser Pink of Floyd]

Its an odd one. On one hand, they kept to their vows and obeyed the King with Brandon Stark. Talk about being stuck between a rock & a hardplace, they couldnt win in that situation.

As for The White Bull, Whent and Dayne not being present at The Trident, who knows why. They might have been with Rhaegar before he arrived back in KL and led the army to face Robert, whose to say what they was told. Rhaegar might have told them (whereever they was before) to stay with Lyanna and they didnt march back to KL with him. The KG obey the King and his royal family right? If the prince gives a command, they obey still.

Edited by Ser Pink of Floyd, 21 January 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Lion of Judah]

They all did their duty save for Jamie Lannister, they were sworn to protect the king not judge him. You can't blame them for Aerys being crazy, they swore an oath and turned a blind eye to his deeds. A question that I have pondered is if they are also sworn to protect the common folk as well? If they are then I would question their honor, but if they were only sworn to protect their king; they did their duty to the end.

[eggs]

Full-Faced Braavosi, on 21 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I believe the question is, is it common knowledge to us readers (i.e. a fact) that Aerys ordered them to the Trident and they ignored him.

no, i meant in story. i was curious.

[Lady Sansa Stark]

Full-Faced Braavosi, on 21 January 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

I believe the question is, is it common knowledge to us readers (i.e. a fact) that Aerys ordered them to the Trident and they ignored him.

Well, Aerys send Hightower to retrieve Whent and Dayne and especially to find Rhaegar, but Hightower stayed instead. It's in the AWOIAF-app, which I sadly do not possess, but still. This strongly implies he defied the King's orders and chose to obey Rhaegar instead, so you could say it should be common knowledge for us readers...

[Harald Hard-Ruler]

well Lewyn Martell kept a paramour which they apparently all knew about, so yeah they liked to pick and choose which parts of their oaths they would abide by. Based on the little I know about them they seem just as hypocritical and self-serving as many of the knights in the series.

[Roza Ahai]

Lady Sansa Stark, on 21 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Well, Aerys send Hightower to retrieve Whent and Dayne and especially to find Rhaegar, but Hightower stayed instead. It's in the AWOIAF-app, which I sadly do not possess, but still. This strongly implies he defied the King's orders and chose to obey Rhaegar instead, so you could say it should be common knowledge for us readers...

I was sure that Aerys was looking for Rhaegar, but I don't remember he gave specific orders to retrieve Whent and Dayne.

[Roza Ahai]

Harald Hard-Ruler, on 21 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

Based on the little I know about them they seem just as hypocritical and self-serving as many of the knights in the series.

I think in this case they wouldn't fight against Ned's team at the ToJ

[otherbeef]

i like the idea of Dayne, Whent, and Hightower being in league with Rhaegar to overthrow Aerys. Helps to redeem themselves for ever serving a monster like Aerys so blindly in the first place.

[eggs]

Harald Hard-Ruler, on 21 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

well Lewyn Martell kept a paramour which they apparently all knew about, so yeah they liked to pick and choose which parts of their oaths they would abide by. Based on the little I know about them they seem just as hypocritical and self-serving as many of the knights in the series.

pretty much. they just look better cause they stand next to jaime and were all great fighters.

[eggs]

my bad >.>

Edited by eggs, 21 January 2013 - 05:15 PM.

[Narea]

Lion Of Judah, on 21 January 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

They all did their duty save for Jamie Lannister, they were sworn to protect the king not judge him. You can't blame them for Aerys being crazy, they swore an oath and turned a blind eye to his deeds. A question that I have pondered is if they are also sworn to protect the common folk as well? If they are then I would question their honor, but if they were only sworn to protect their king; they did their duty to the end.

Well, they all were knights which means that they swore to protect the innocents...
In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent. In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women...

But I imagine protecting the queen from her husband would have been difficult especially as they couldn't have used force against him.
Anyway, protecting women from their husbands in medieval times is pretty much impossible as wives are not viewed as anything other than a property. Even as recently as 100 years ago there was no legal way of protecting women from domestic violence.

Lady Sansa Stark, on 21 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Well, Aerys send Hightower to retrieve Whent and Dayne and especially to find Rhaegar, but Hightower stayed instead. It's in the AWOIAF-app, which I sadly do not possess, but still. This strongly implies he defied the King's orders and chose to obey Rhaegar instead, so you could say it should be common knowledge for us readers...

Exactly. Aerys sent Hightower to retrieve Rhaegar. Hightower found Rhaegar and relayed to him Aerys' orders for him to return to KL. Rhaegar went. Hightower did his duty. If Rhaegar showed unwillingness to go then Hightower would have had to escort him. But Rhaegar didn't and so Hightower was free to fulfill whatever order he was given next.

[My Fair Lady]

otherbeef, on 21 January 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

i like the idea of Dayne, Whent, and Hightower being in league with Rhaegar to overthrow Aerys. Helps to redeem themselves for ever serving a monster like Aerys so blindly in the first place.

I do too. I was talking about this in another thread earlier today.

I think this was a very skilled, noble KG.... and they did their duty for the most part.

I find it odd that Hightower and the rest stayed at the ToJ while Rhaegar went to fight at the Trident with the rest of Aerys's army. From all we've learned about this group of KG through the books and now through the app, it seems to me that some of the KG and court were more loyal to Rhaegar than Aerys.

[Lion of Judah]

Narea, on 21 January 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Well, they all were knights which means that they swore to protect the innocents...
In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent. In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women...

But I imagine protecting the queen from her husband would have been difficult especially as they couldn't have used force against him.
Anyway, protecting women from their husbands in medieval times is pretty much impossible as wives are not viewed as anything other than a property. Even as recently as 100 years ago there was no legal way of protecting women from domestic violence.



Exactly. Aerys sent Hightower to retrieve Rhaegar. Hightower found Rhaegar and relayed to him Aerys' orders for him to return to KL. Rhaegar went. Hightower did his duty. If Rhaegar showed unwillingness to go then Hightower would have had to escort him. But Rhaegar didn't and so Hightower was free to fulfill whatever order he was given next.

Thank for providing the oath, Aerys made fulfilling some of those vows impossible.

[corbon]

locke and key, on 21 January 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

People always argue that aery's kingsguard were the most honourable and chivalrous knights in the land now while I don't doubt their honor surely it was a bit hypocritical for them to say they serve only the king in that when Aerys called them to fight on the trident, Arthur dayne, Gerold Hightower and Oswell whent went to protect lyanna stark in the ToJ

We have no evidence of any such call.

eggs, on 21 January 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

Is it common knowledge that they ignored Aerys?

Its not even knowledge, let alone common. There is no record of them ignoring or defying him in any way.

Lady Sansa Stark, on 21 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Well, Aerys send Hightower to retrieve Whent and Dayne and especially to find Rhaegar, but Hightower stayed instead. It's in the AWOIAF-app, which I sadly do not possess, but still. This strongly implies he defied the King's orders and chose to obey Rhaegar instead, so you could say it should be common knowledge for us readers...

It implies no such thing.
He was ordered to find Rhaegar, which he did. Orders faithfully carried out. He aren't told he was to return with Rhaegar.

Furthermore, the reason he was ordered to find Rhaegar was to put Rhaegar in command of the war effort. So if Rhaegar then gives him new orders, unless they directly contravene orders from Aerys, then Hightower is duty-bound to follow them.