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Dance of Dragons: Not just about the Targs


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#1 Warrior Queen

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Posted 23 January 2013 - 11:22 AM

George has confirmed that there will be another Dance of Dragons.
The Dance of Dragons was a civil war between a Targaryen sister and brother over the succession.

I think that this Dance of Dragons is not only about the Targaryens...
here a couple possibilities:

- Dany and (F)Aegon...
It will still be a different dance of dragons, since they're not siblings, but aunt and nephew and only Dany has dragons. But both want to have the Iron Throne, and might go to war with each other over it.
- Euron and Victarion Greyjoy
They seem to hate each other a lot. Euron is sitting the seastone chair now, Victarion listens to his commands to find Dany, but he still feels he has the better claim to the seastone chair.
- Theon and Asha
Like the first dance of dragons: older sister versus younger brother. I don't really see this one happening tho.
-The Frey's
- The succession will cause major trouble after lord Walder dies, there are too many damn heirs!
And the fact that the Freys have angered the Gods: The guest right is a sacred law of hospitality and the Frey's broke it. Which means they will be cursed by the gods, like the Rat cook. A war between the heirs, causing the destruction of their house might be their punishment.

So what do u guys think? will it mean that there will be (a) war(s) over succession, or do you guys think it really is only about the Targs?


i don't know if there is a topic about this: but if there if, i could't find it. sorry.

#2 Dreadnaught

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 03:14 AM

The Dance of Dragons was involving major powers and I'd say this one would be the same. Therefore, that would rule out Theon and Asha, and The Frey's.

I don't see the Ironborn getting 2 dragons. But possibly Euron/Victarion could steal one of the dragons, make some alliances, and then the Ironborn could invade the mainland and become a major power. Then it would be Ironborn vs Dany.

Or GRRM is probably going to do something unpredictable. Like if R+L=J is true, then it could be Jon vs Dany.

But there are 3 dragons, if one side had 2 dragons then it would be an uneven fight. Maybe one gets killed, or maybe it's a 3-way Dance and there will be 3 factions each with a dragon.

#3 bent branch

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 05:53 PM

I completely agree with your contention that the second dance with dragons we are anticipating cannot go down exactly as it did the first time. By breaking it down into its various components we can make some guesses as to how the second dance of dragons will go down. The various elements as I see it are: legitimate Targaryens, siblings, succession, and a battle on dragons. At least one of these variables will have to change. If Euron is hidden amongst the Iron Fleet like some people speculate, we can get all the elements except for the legitimate Targaryens in the second dance with dragons. For instance, Euron could have given Victarion a fake dragon's horn which Moqorro has turned into a real dragon's horn through the spells he has been casting using Victarion's blood. As they approach Mereen both men could blow their horn and summon a dragon. They then could have a battle on the backs of dragons with one or the other winning. This scenario would have the elements of siblings, succession and a battle on dragons. Is this the way I think it will play out? I don't really know. There are so many ways the various pieces could go together that I don't feel I can really make a good guess. However, if wesuppose that book 5 was named ADWD because there was supposed to be a dance with dragons in it and a battle between two people on dragons will be part of it, then looking for two people who are at least approaching Mereen is reasonable,

#4 Gogossos

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:19 PM

Benerro in Volantis believes in Dany as AA or whatever. He sends Moqorro to Meereen. Vic listens to Moqorro but that's not really clever as the red priest allegiance is to Dany, really. As a result, I don't think either Greyjoy will bind a dragon to themselves. But the second dance can get interesting if (insert convoluted explanation here) Jon gets ahold of one and claims the North and Beyond the Wall as his domain, with (F)Aegon and Dany also quarrelling. It's possible but it's not going to happen.

#5 PatrickStormborn

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

I think the second dance of the dragons will undoubtedly be between a male Targaryen and a female Targaryen. But I don't think it will just be a Targaryen war; keep in mind that GRRM originally intended for this "dance" to be the subject of a whole book. I can't help but feel that the dance is going to be as major as the War of Five Kings, but with a very different impact - it's going to completely change the laws of succession throughout Westeros.

#6 chrisdaw

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 07:33 PM

Aegon/Dorne/GC vs Dany/Unsullied/Dothraki/Free Companies/Maybe some Ironborn

Riverlands will probably divide. Someone may take the gold cloaks into the field. Tyrion will sit on the side (with the crown lands in his pocket). Vale and Reach may or may not be there. Nothing North of the neck (Stannis, Asha, Theon) will be involved, the two stories will converge when Dany has to flee North.

Edited by chrisdaw, 24 January 2013 - 07:33 PM.


#7 Theda Baratheon

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Posted 24 January 2013 - 08:18 PM

I think the second dance of the dragons will undoubtedly be between a male Targaryen and a female Targaryen. But I don't think it will just be a Targaryen war; keep in mind that GRRM originally intended for this "dance" to be the subject of a whole book. I can't help but feel that the dance is going to be as major as the War of Five Kings, but with a very different impact - it's going to completely change the laws of succession throughout Westeros.

This is an interesting point to make, yes.

#8 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:51 AM

Aegon knows of Danny, Danny does not know of Aegon.
Her first reaction will be to want to rescue him as tyrion points out.
That would mean she would have to either reveal the Faegon plot through illyrio/tatters or some other means, to even want to go to war against him at all. So by that logic things must get very messy between them otherwise they rule westeros together bingo bango end of series.
I don't think so.
Volantis is being set up as a lynch pin of essos, a slave revolt there with the help of the red priests may even ring bravos(only because of her slave freeing ways) onto Dannys side which would give her a rough congolmerate(assuming she still holds Slaver bay) of 5 eastern cities.
The beginning of an eastern empire which may actually hurt her in westeros.
With what we know of Danny and the seemingly wise council of JC it makes little sense to me they would fight each other instead of Marry and rule together.
So perhaps Aegon has to be a fake, unless somewhere somehow someone makes a giant cock up of the diplomatic relations between them. Which I just don't see.

Edited by The Dragon has three heads, 25 January 2013 - 01:52 AM.


#9 aryagonnakill

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:56 AM

I'd just like to point out that Dany didn't have chapters in Feast, and Aegon wasn't introduced until Dance. Kinda seems like a foreshadowing to me.

#10 chrisdaw

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:02 AM

Aegon knows of Danny, Danny does not know of Aegon.
Her first reaction will be to want to rescue him as tyrion points out.
That would mean she would have to either reveal the Faegon plot through illyrio/tatters or some other means, to even want to go to war against him at all. So by that logic things must get very messy between them otherwise they rule westeros together bingo bango end of series.
I don't think so.
Volantis is being set up as a lynch pin of essos, a slave revolt there with the help of the red priests may even ring bravos(only because of her slave freeing ways) onto Dannys side which would give her a rough congolmerate(assuming she still holds Slaver bay) of 5 eastern cities.
The beginning of an eastern empire which may actually hurt her in westeros.
With what we know of Danny and the seemingly wise council of JC it makes little sense to me they would fight each other instead of Marry and rule together.
So perhaps Aegon has to be a fake, unless somewhere somehow someone makes a giant cock up of the diplomatic relations between them. Which I just don't see.


Aegon could have KL well under control by the time Dany makes it to Westeros.

#11 The Dragon has three heads

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:11 AM

Thats it though, if he does, then he's king, effectively, and she's an invader. And I can't see her bringing war to the seven kingdoms unless she can prove he's not Rhaegars son.

#12 chrisdaw

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 03:21 AM

The idea will be enough.

#13 Gogossos

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:52 AM

It's far from certain he'll get Dorne. What about Highgarden? The Tyrells have risen so far now they won't give it up that easily and Tommen is their linchpin. Nobody knows what the Vale will decide, what with LF holding on with the tip of his fingernails. The North is in turmoil. So, without Dany, it's likely that Aegon will simply get embroiled in the existing quarrels. He needs dragons.

Edited by Gogossos, 25 January 2013 - 06:53 AM.


#14 hrafna

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:22 AM

what 2 battles will be resolved in this book? slavers bay and the wall. i can't see them both happening at the same time and as such i believe that dany won't make it to westeros till the end, to help finish off the battle at the wall.there will be plenty of time to finalize who will sit the throne........... until dany's dragons set off all the hidden caches of wildfire in kl, thus destroying the whole place! in the next book!

#15 chrisdaw

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 07:28 AM

He'll have Dorne, and he'll sit the IT, that will be enough, and when someone plants the Blackfyre idea in Dany's head so will begin the dance, mummer's dragon, slayer of lies, the dragons dance the people die.

#16 RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

With what we know of Danny and the seemingly wise council of JC it makes little sense to me they would fight each other instead of Marry and rule together.
So perhaps Aegon has to be a fake, unless somewhere somehow someone makes a giant cock up of the diplomatic relations between them. Which I just don't see.


The thing is Dany has spent the last few years thinking she is the rightful ruler of Westeros. Dreaming of it everything she's done is for it and out of nowhere someone is going to tell her she's no the legitamate ruler. The suggestion that Aegon is fake is going to be enough for her to start to turn against it though they may start off allies. She already has a strong faction with her own people, so will Aegon, those groups aren't going to mix well and they can't split the kingdom. In the end legitamite families in history have fought for contol, brothers, father-sons. I don't think it's a stretch to have Dany believe he's fake (as that's what she'll want to believe), even though there won't be evidence for either case.

I'm more interested in what Barristan will do, he sought Dany out because he beleived her to be the rightful ruler, if he can be convinced that Aegon is real will he change to Aegon. Is he one of her treasons, the man who will save Mereen for her?

#17 PatrickStormborn

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

what 2 battles will be resolved in this book? slavers bay and the wall. i can't see them both happening at the same time and as such i believe that dany won't make it to westeros till the end, to help finish off the battle at the wall.there will be plenty of time to finalize who will sit the throne........... until dany's dragons set off all the hidden caches of wildfire in kl, thus destroying the whole place! in the next book!


There were originally supposed to be three books taking place after ASoS; the fourth novel was supposed to document Dany's return to Westeros "and the conflicts that creates", and there were supposed to be two left after that.

So it would appear that Dany needs to be in Westeros by at least halfway through TWoW.

Oh, and GRRM has confirmed that the Battle of Meereen and the Battle of Winterfell (not the Wall) will be resolved at the beginning of the next book.


He'll have Dorne, and he'll sit the IT, that will be enough, and when someone plants the Blackfyre idea in Dany's head so will begin the dance, mummer's dragon, slayer of lies, the dragons dance the people die.


What makes you think he'll sit the Iron Throne? Because at this point that's looking very unlikely. His role in the series is to distract Daenerys and cause more destruction for Westeros. I don't think he's important enough to be the one monarch who manages to depose the Lannisters.

#18 Tini

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 01:51 PM

I think it would be quite fitting if Aegon managed to depose the Lannisters only to find himself and his Throne sidelined by an invasion of the Others, without any hope of consolidating his rule or defeating an enemy that Jon Connington probably never included in their conquest plans.

What makes you think that Aegon's role is to distract Daenerys? If he was meant as a distraction for her, he would have remained in Essos - which still maintains a vise-like grip on her attention. At the moment, Aegon would seem more of a distraction for Lannisters and Tyrells.

#19 chrisdaw

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 06:58 PM

What makes you think he'll sit the Iron Throne? Because at this point that's looking very unlikely. His role in the series is to distract Daenerys and cause more destruction for Westeros. I don't think he's important enough to be the one monarch who manages to depose the Lannisters.


He's practically there. One victory over the Tyrell host in open battle and it's just a march to KL, where the faith will open the gates (and declare) for him as they did for Aegon I in Oldtown, cloth dragon on a pole being cheered by the people. It's VI's plan 15 years in the making that has been building since AGOT and it's a crux of Varys storyline that Aegon has to decide Tommen's (and Myrcella's) immediate fate in contrast to what happened to Elia and her children.

#20 setmyheartafire

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Posted 25 January 2013 - 08:26 PM

Two siblings are available to "dance", if Aegon is real and R+L=J.

Just saying. Might not end up having much to do with Dany in the end.