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NBA 2013: Return of the Dwightmare


217 replies to this topic

#1 Rhom

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

Hey! Its not even All-Star break yet and we finally got enough posts to close out the off-season thread!

So continuing discussion of topics ranging from:

this is awesome


LeBron dry-humping a fan at mid-court.

Sorry, Minaku.

Here is a link about the logos.

http://www.nba.com/h...cans-logo-12413

Apparently, graphic designer, Rodney Richardson, is the one responsible for the design of the new logos, including the one making the pelican's body a basketball. Blech. It's a minor thing, but I like the teal and gold we currently have, and Benson should have retained the rights to the New Orleans Voodoo name. I have complained enough about the new name and logos, though. I just hope Benson infuses the team with money and enthusiasm. I remember too well how long he let the Saints linger in purgatory; even if the team was horrendous, he still made money, and that was his business model as an owner for a long time. Times changed, though.


Pelicans Logo: Love it? or Hate it?

And of course...

They wil probably try and trade Howard. No idea where he could end up as I think even the Nets would be wary of blowing up their team to get him. Brook Lopez is playing well and Howard's back is too much of a liability.


Dwight Howard walking around with a stat sheet to prove that even though his team stinks... he's playing pretty good.

Proceed.

#2 Morpheus

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 11:59 AM

But he has had injuries flare up and more importantly, he and Kobe have no chemistry and appear to dislike each other greatly. Unless Kobe decides to quit after this season, which doesn;t appear likely, I wouldn't be surprised if they look at trade options rather than try and resign him.

#3 David Selig

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 01:05 PM

Dwight can be such a child sometimes. Great player, but his passive aggressive whiny tendencies are quite annoying. he's 27 but behaves like he's 14 way too often.

#4 Triskan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 02:01 PM

Dwight can be such a child sometimes. Great player, but his passive aggressive whiny tendencies are quite annoying. he's 27 but behaves like he's 14 way too often.


I agree with this. And he seems to have a hard time being around Kobe's alpha dog.

#5 Calibandar

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

Yes, but if you're the Lakers I just cannot see why you would want to get rid of him at this point.
You've just spent the whole summer fishing for the biggest fish in the pond and in the end you caught him. He can still be the pillar of the franchise for years to come. Bryant will surely play next season as well, but as time goes on, Howard should become the main man.

All the things mentioned against him are true, yet the Lakers do not appear to have any intention of letting him go, and I can see why.
Howard really hasn't played long enough with the Lakers yet to declare it an abject failure and already verdict him as someone who will never be as good as he was pre-injury.

And if you trade him, what center do you get in return that you want more than Howard, and which is actually a feasible option.

Edited by Calibandar, 26 January 2013 - 04:48 PM.


#6 Triskan

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 05:58 PM

One thing that has surprised me is that Howard and Gasol have not played well on the court together. They're sending Pau to the bench now to minimize the time they're together. I had envisioned Pau's versatility leading to this working better than it has.

#7 Calibandar

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 07:09 PM

In fact, nobody seems to play well together. Not Nash and Bryant. Not Bryant and Howard. Not Howard and Gasol. Certainly not Nash and Gasol.
They really looked very vulnerable in all the games I have seen, but in some games they manage to just outscore the opponent through willpower or some individual bit of class shining through the disorganized murk.

#8 Triskan

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

Rondo is done for the year w/ an ACL tear. Sorry, Boston fans. That sucks.


Nic Batum who is either 23 or recently turned 24 had a triple double in a win over the Clippers. Hell yeah. Portland is really exceeding expectations this year despite the bench being as awful as expected.

#9 Greywolf2375

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 08:25 PM

Rondo is done for the year w/ an ACL tear. Sorry, Boston fans. That sucks.

Yeah, not that I really was holding out much hope for the late season run, but that puts the nail in the coffin. It is time to start looking for younger bodies for this team.

Larry Bird, Kevin McHale and Robert Parrish aren't walking through that door. And for the rest of the season neither is Rondo.

#10 Commodore

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 09:35 PM

great article from Woj on the Celtics' predicament. No one wants to give up young assets for aging stars on bloated contracts.

http://sports.yahoo....-014726749.html

Ainge has always insisted that his mentor, Red Auerbach, made a mistake staying too long with Larry Bird and Kevin McHale, that he should've moved them when they still had value. Everything's changed now, though. No one plays for the "Let's go for it this year," deal and risks long-term franchise viability. There are point guards available to get the Celtics through the season, and Ainge says he'll meet with his front office and coaches on Monday to begin discussing them.


Outside the locker room late Sunday, Ainge excused himself when a young point guard walked past him on his way out of the arena, "Hey Avery [Bradley]," Ainge called to his new starting point guard. "I need to talk to you."

Between now and the trade deadline, Rivers will be reminding these Celtics over and over how magnificently the Chicago Bulls have played basketball without Rose. The Celtics aren't winning a title with or without Rondo this year, but the days of Auerbach picking up the phone and hustling the draft rights to Bill Russell and Kevin McHale and Len Bias are long gone.

"Draft picks are hard to come by now," Ainge said.


I actually think they may be able to get something for Pierce. He expires in summer 2014 which is a monster class of free agents. KG is $6 million partially guaranteed for that same summer, so a team could still create cap space by taking him.

#11 Triskan

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Posted 27 January 2013 - 11:22 PM

I'm not predicting that the Lakers will storm back into the season here, but if they do, they'll say it began tonight. Beat OKC comfortably at home. Kobe was a board short of a triple double.

ETA: Man, back to Rondo, even though it's bad for this year I wasn't even thinking about beyond this year when I posted earlier. Of course this will keep him out at least a bit into next year and to the all-star break even.

I just heard the folks on ESPN wondering if Pierce or Garnet will be on the trade block now for this year as a playoff stretch acquisition.

Edited by Triskele, 27 January 2013 - 11:57 PM.


#12 Exa Inova

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:47 AM

Pelicans Logo: Love it? or Hate it?

Dwight Howard walking around with a stat sheet to prove that even though his team stinks... he's playing pretty good.
Proceed.

That logo looks like an all star logo, not a logo for a real team. Then again...they arent a real team, are they? And the pelican looks more like a hawk or eagle, menacing!

But he has had injuries flare up and more importantly, he and Kobe have no chemistry and appear to dislike each other greatly. Unless Kobe decides to quit after this season, which doesn;t appear likely, I wouldn't be surprised if they look at trade options rather than try and resign him.

They shouldnt and wont trade him. He is the most dominant center in the league today. Their team is just constructed badly.

Yes, but if you're the Lakers I just cannot see why you would want to get rid of him at this point.
You've just spent the whole summer fishing for the biggest fish in the pond and in the end you caught him. He can still be the pillar of the franchise for years to come. Bryant will surely play next season as well, but as time goes on, Howard should become the main man.

All the things mentioned against him are true, yet the Lakers do not appear to have any intention of letting him go, and I can see why.
Howard really hasn't played long enough with the Lakers yet to declare it an abject failure and already verdict him as someone who will never be as good as he was pre-injury.

And if you trade him, what center do you get in return that you want more than Howard, and which is actually a feasible option.


Agree. But see next.

In fact, nobody seems to play well together. Not Nash and Bryant. Not Bryant and Howard. Not Howard and Gasol. Certainly not Nash and Gasol.
They really looked very vulnerable in all the games I have seen, but in some games they manage to just outscore the opponent through willpower or some individual bit of class shining through the disorganized murk.

Agrees. The Lakers are constructed badly. Like I said before; Howard should be like Russel and not Chamberlain. Still they try to use him as Chamberlain. Pointing to stats is a sign of this.
They should be constructed based on defense but all they do is focus on offense. Even some of you point out the (true) glaring offensive disjointments but it at the defensive end were it starts.
They also have the wrong coach. It would make more sense to ditch D'Antony than Howard. They are too slow in every defensive aspect with the possible exception of Kobe. Thats why teams run them.
There are a million more problems with the Lakers but discussing them will take pages.

I'm not predicting that the Lakers will storm back into the season here, but if they do, they'll say it began tonight. Beat OKC comfortably at home. Kobe was a board short of a triple double.

ETA: Man, back to Rondo, even though it's bad for this year I wasn't even thinking about beyond this year when I posted earlier. Of course this will keep him out at least a bit into next year and to the all-star break even.

I just heard the folks on ESPN wondering if Pierce or Garnet will be on the trade block now for this year as a playoff stretch acquisition.

Trading Pierce or Garnett wouldnt make sense. I fail to see why no one is pointing to the elephant in the room: Green sucks!
Thats right, I said it (first) Green doesnt deliver, isnt that scorer of the bench they needed and cant hold the fort running with the subs.
For the C's to have any semblance of a contender anybody but Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Bradley can go. Go after Cousins, rake in Josh Smith, bring in Gortat, see if Ellis is available. a big rebouder (preferably with post moves) and a self creating wing is what they need.

Edited by Exa Inova, 28 January 2013 - 06:50 AM.


#13 aeu

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 06:30 PM

Trading Pierce or Garnett wouldnt make sense. I fail to see why no one is pointing to the elephant in the room: Green sucks!
Thats right, I said it (first) Green doesnt deliver, isnt that scorer of the bench they needed and cant hold the fort running with the subs.
For the C's to have any semblance of a contender anybody but Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Bradley can go. Go after Cousins, rake in Josh Smith, bring in Gortat, see if Ellis is available. a big rebouder (preferably with post moves) and a self creating wing is what they need.


Trading Pierce AND Garnett is the only thing that makes sense (though I think Garnett has a no trade clause that would complicate things). In hindsight, they should have tried to do this once they knew Ray was leaving but I don't really fault them for trying for one more year, especially since they were coming from a good effort against the Heat.

The problem, as Commodore says, is what you can possibly get in return. The best candidate would be a team that feels like they are quite close and renting one of them for a year or two would be worth giving up something decent. It doesn't seem like there are many of those with good assets they are willing to give up. I personally think either of Pierce or KG could really help the Clippers but it doesn't seem like they are willing to part with Bledsoe.

Some people are saying you can take them on to save money in the long run, like Memphis giving up Rudy Gay for Pierce, but that seems to me like wishful thinking on the part of the Celtics. If you are willing to give up Rudy Gay (or someone similar) to save money, you should be able to get much better long term prospects. Though this being the NBA, a ridiculous, one sided trade is never out of the question, so who knows.

#14 Sir Thursday

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 08:39 PM

They may be able to get something for Pierce, but I suspect they will be unable to trade Garnett because of the No-Trade Clause. But somehow I don't see there being any trades on the table that will help them. Best I can see is them dealing Pierce to Phoenix for Beasley and shrapnel and hoping that KG can get him to focus for once. But that's a pretty big gamble given Beasley's track record, plus it's highly unlikely that Phoenix would consider sending out draft picks (I was reading somewhere that they're unlikely to accept deals in which they send out picks given their current situation), and that's what the Celtics are looking for right now.

ST

#15 Commodore

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 12:41 AM

LeBron and Olajuwon training session, awesome

Dream really is the Master Splinter of the NBA, everyone comes to him

50 years old and still looks quicker than LeBron

Edited by Commodore, 29 January 2013 - 12:42 AM.


#16 sperry

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 01:33 AM

I love the Pelican name. Unfortunately, the logo is awful. If you go with a name like Pelicans, you can't go for a menacing, tough looking logo. It should have been something lighter, like the classic baseball logos.

#17 Exa Inova

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:12 AM

Trading Pierce AND Garnett is the only thing that makes sense (though I think Garnett has a no trade clause that would complicate things). In hindsight, they should have tried to do this once they knew Ray was leaving but I don't really fault them for trying for one more year, especially since they were coming from a good effort against the Heat.

The problem, as Commodore says, is what you can possibly get in return. The best candidate would be a team that feels like they are quite close and renting one of them for a year or two would be worth giving up something decent. It doesn't seem like there are many of those with good assets they are willing to give up. I personally think either of Pierce or KG could really help the Clippers but it doesn't seem like they are willing to part with Bledsoe.

Some people are saying you can take them on to save money in the long run, like Memphis giving up Rudy Gay for Pierce, but that seems to me like wishful thinking on the part of the Celtics. If you are willing to give up Rudy Gay (or someone similar) to save money, you should be able to get much better long term prospects. Though this being the NBA, a ridiculous, one sided trade is never out of the question, so who knows.

To me, the bolded parts dont make sense. Dont give up Pierce if you're just treading water. What would Gay bring that Pierce isnt bringing already? Dont forget Pierce comes of the books in 2 years. Looking at their salary situation Pierce, Garnett and Rondo make a lot of money but its really Green, Lee, Terry and Bass that clutter things up.
And why would the Clippers need another veteran? They already have Billups, Odom, Crawfort, Hill....Besides, since Paul isnt an maintenance free player, its unlikely they will even consider giving up a point guard.

They may be able to get something for Pierce, but I suspect they will be unable to trade Garnett because of the No-Trade Clause. But somehow I don't see there being any trades on the table that will help them. Best I can see is them dealing Pierce to Phoenix for Beasley and shrapnel and hoping that KG can get him to focus for once. But that's a pretty big gamble given Beasley's track record, plus it's highly unlikely that Phoenix would consider sending out draft picks (I was reading somewhere that they're unlikely to accept deals in which they send out picks given their current situation), and that's what the Celtics are looking for right now.

ST

Why ST? Why would you go after Beasly for Pierce? The only thing Beasly does statisticly better is block .3 shot more. He wouldnt help the C in no other way than frustrate them and losing their fan base by trading their captain for a proven loser.
If draft chooses are what you're after than you've got to hold a garage sale and everybody must go, Rondo, Pierce Garnett....And you have to accept that this and the next season are lost.

I think the best option is to go after the things they need: a point and rebounding. Sucker Sacramento into giving up Brooks and Cousins. They are moving so they want to shed contracts. Offer them Terry, Bass and Sullinger (talented rookie).
Dont forget Pierce, Garnett and Rondo are reasons for top quality players to come to Boston. Who knows, maybe Howard will wear green next year.

#18 Exa Inova

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:20 AM

LeBron and Olajuwon training session, awesome

Dream really is the Master Splinter of the NBA, everyone comes to him

50 years old and still looks quicker than LeBron

Im looking at this clip and thinking why are the dreams moves more 'unguardable'? Than I see it, James copies him perfectly but takes 'power steps', a step not more than 1.2 times his body widt. Dream are maybe not more powerfull but are bigger, twice his body widt at least, thus stepping around his defender in one step. Thats what Hakeem is telling him over and over. Take a big step (into the paint, around your defender, when using the dream shake).
Great stuff!

#19 Sir Thursday

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:11 AM

To me, the bolded parts dont make sense. Dont give up Pierce if you're just treading water. What would Gay bring that Pierce isnt bringing already? Dont forget Pierce comes of the books in 2 years. Looking at their salary situation Pierce, Garnett and Rondo make a lot of money but its really Green, Lee, Terry and Bass that clutter things up.
And why would the Clippers need another veteran? They already have Billups, Odom, Crawfort, Hill....Besides, since Paul isnt an maintenance free player, its unlikely they will even consider giving up a point guard.


Why ST? Why would you go after Beasly for Pierce? The only thing Beasly does statisticly better is block .3 shot more. He wouldnt help the C in no other way than frustrate them and losing their fan base by trading their captain for a proven loser.
If draft chooses are what you're after than you've got to hold a garage sale and everybody must go, Rondo, Pierce Garnett....And you have to accept that this and the next season are lost.


What I mean is, they are unlikely to get anything better than that for Pierce. When comparing Beasley with Pierce, you have to remember a couple of things: (1) Beasley is a lot younger than Pierce, and one of the main things Boston needs to do is get younger if they want to improve their chances in the future; (2) Beasley has never reached the ceiling his talents would suggest he can achieve. It is very clear when looking at his game that the root cause of his issues is mental - all of the physical skills are there to be a dominant player. If any team were able to get through to him and get him to his potential, it would be Boston given the strength of its locker room.

Anyway, on further consideration there are a couple of other avenues they could explore if they're looking to trade Pierce. At the end of the day, the Celtics need to either blow it up or try to retool on the fly, The longer they hold on to Pierce and Garnett the more their value declines, and in order for either method to be successful they need to get something back for them. Blowing it up means they need young talent or draft picks. But who actively wants Pierce enough to give up that sort of asset for him? You're looking at the small pool of contending teams, of which:

- OKC have some young talent and picks, but no cap space for him (if they did, they'd just have kept Harden).
- Lakers haven't got anything the Celtics would want, ditto the Heat.
- Clippers have Bledsoe, but are unlikely to want to take on the salary.
- Grizzlies...well, Gay for Pierce works but I don't see that it helps them too much, especially now that deal with Cleveland puts them under the tax line.
- Spurs have a few nice young guys. Kawhi Leonard, Nando de Colo, Cory Joseph, etc. They might be able to construct a deal there, but I don't know whether it's the sort of deal Buford would go for.
- Nuggets aren't giving up Iguodala in a trade like this, and it would seem redundant to have both Iggy and Pierce on the same team. Seems unlikely they're going to want him enough to give up significant assets.
- Nets have MarShon Brooks who they've not really been using properly. I guess there might be something there.

That's pretty much everyone who might be willing to sacrifice quality assets to get Pierce. Nobody else is going to be elevated to contender status by adding him I don't think, so there's no point in giving up significant assets in a deal unless they are deemed cancerous in some way.

So either:

- take whatever young assets the Spurs would be willing to give up.
- gamble on MarShon Brooks, whose game has been well described as "only good for putting up numbers on a bad team".
- trade for some toxic assets that other teams wouldn't mind dumping a la Beasley or Bargnani.

I think the best option is to go after the things they need: a point and rebounding. Sucker Sacramento into giving up Brooks and Cousins. They are moving so they want to shed contracts. Offer them Terry, Bass and Sullinger (talented rookie).
Dont forget Pierce, Garnett and Rondo are reasons for top quality players to come to Boston. Who knows, maybe Howard will wear green next year.


That's never happening. For starters, Sacramento's assets are on lockdown until the sale of the team has gone through, and that's highly unlikely to be until after the deadline. But in any case, Sullinger is the only real asset they'd be getting there (they've already got a solid PF on the roster in Jason Thompson, so Bass is only a marginal upgrade, and their backcourt is already full to bursting with players that would not complement Terry at all), and he absolutely does not match up to Cousins in terms of trade value.

ST

#20 Maithanet

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 08:54 AM

If draft chooses are what you're after than you've got to hold a garage sale and everybody must go, Rondo, Pierce Garnett....And you have to accept that this and the next season are lost.

I agree with this except that I don't think that you want to give up on Rondo. He is an all star, and young enough to help the Celtics for years to come. His knee injury could allow for the Celtics to actually have a pretty graceful rebuilding. He is out for all of this year and the first 30 or so games next year. That means that if they trade away the old veterans ASAP and go into "full rebuild" they could easily fall into the position where they have a decent lottery pick. Then next year, same thing, even with Rondo back for part of the year, they are going to be lottery for sure without Pierce and Garnett. So they could, at least for the next two years, avoid having to give up their best player AND avoid having Rondo drag the team from being terrible to merely poor, and thus never have a shot at any really good players in the draft.

Now, it remains to be seen how hard the Celtics could tank in that time, and how much value they could get in two drafts of being bad, but keeping a guy like Rondo is a real good start on being a competitive team.



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