177 replies to this topic

[Éadaoin]

This came up in another thread, and I began to think about it some more. This isn't meant to be a general discussion on their relationship, but rather to focus on more specific questions: Exactly how much control does Littlefinger have over Sansa? And is she buying his BS?

I am a big Sansa fan, so you could say that this topic concerns me. I want her as far away from him as she can be. I appreciate Littlefinger as a villain, but I dont want him to "win" in any way, and I'm hoping that Sansa will be his downfall. I think Sansa is resourceful, intelligent, and empathetic. But she is also flawed and human, and certainly in the beginning of the story she showed that she had the tendency to want to see the best in people. Is the story of Joffrey repeating itself with Littlefinger? I'd hope not.

It is worth noting that she has already lied to him - "lies and arbor gold". She also seems uncomfortable with his affections, as her responses to him are described as "dutiful" more than once, iirc.

In her last chapter in Feast, Sansa thinks to herself "That day was done, and so was Sansa." She seems to be adopting the Alayne persona. However, as Elba the Intoner noted in another thread, she is referred to as Sansa again while thinking of how the wind sounded like wolves.

Sansa has identified two aspects of Petyr Baelish: Littlefinger and Petyr. As Newstar pointed out, in her last chapter in Feast she thinks of him almost exclusively as Petyr, who she has labeled her protector. Is this a sign that she is becoming more under his influence? She also seems to value his opinion, particularly in that last Feast chapter, and wishes he was there with her to help with Sweetrobin. Not to mention that she thinks of him admiringly - Nothing frightened Petyr Baelish.

Sansa is a subtly-written character and so I'd appreciate for you all to possibly point out things I've missed and to potentially go into more depth. Is Sansa "buying it"? And additionally, how much control do you think Littlefinger has over Sansa?

Edited by Éadaoin, 26 January 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[RhaenysBalerion]

I think it's the same reason Arya is staying at the House of the Undying. Where else to go? She has nowhere to go. She has nobody. For now, Littlefinger is safety, food and roof. Right now he has pretty much control over her I think, but if he pushes this whole kissing thing she'll have enough at some point. I don't think Sansa will let him go Joffrey. She knows he is a dangerous man and I think she'll be out of his reach as soon as she has a chance. I hope soon. I hate Littlefinger around her. It's so gross... He is hitting on her, because she looks like her mom he liked. HOW creepy is that? oO

[Elaena Targaryen]

Thanks for starting the thread. I really worry about this too!

[Theda Baratheon]

RhaenysBalerion, on 26 January 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

I think it's the same reason Arya is staying at the House of the Undying. Where else to go? She has nowhere to go. She has nobody. For now, Littlefinger is safety, food and roof. Right now he has pretty much control over her I think, but if he pushes this whole kissing thing she'll have enough at some point. I don't think Sansa will let him go Joffrey. She knows he is a dangerous man and I think she'll be out of his reach as soon as she has a chance. I hope soon. I hate Littlefinger around her. It's so gross... He is hitting on her, because she looks like her mom he liked. HOW creepy is that? oO

I think making her call him ''Daddy'' whilst kissing him is a tad creepier.
But otherwise, yes; I agree with all of this

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Great thread!

I go back and forth on this topic, so I am excited to read the post of those that have thoroughly investigated Sansa.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Oh, I feel that she somewhat buys into his crap, but as she learns how to play the game I can see her easily outwitting him.

[RhaenysBalerion]

~Mya Bara Stone~, on 26 January 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

I think making her call him ''Daddy'' whilst kissing him is a tad creepier.
But otherwise, yes; I agree with all of this

YES. HOW creepy is that? SO pedophile!
I was really rocky with the Hound/Sansa thing at first, because I never liked the Hound and he freaked Sansa out, but once Littlefinger and 'Kiss your father Alayne' came along I'm all for SanSan.

[Éadaoin]

Lady Tippy Wolfsbane, on 26 January 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Great thread!

I go back and forth on this topic, so I am excited to read the post of those that have thoroughly investigated Sansa.

Thanks! Yes, I'm hoping that some people with a vast knowledge of Sansa will grace us with their presence.

[Rapsie]

I think it is a good question and a troubling one. At this point "we" the readers are very aware of just how evil Littlefinger is.

Sansa however is only privy to certain info about him.

First is the Dontos murder. She immediately thinks she may now have stepped out of the Frying Pan and into the fire, however LF manages to convince her that Dontos would sell her out. That it was her life or his.

Sansa should be more worried about this, but then she is reunited with her Aunt so it sort of fades.
Then there is Lysa's murder. I actually am less worried about this one than the Dontos one as Lysa was attempting to murder her. It is almost self-defence. Almost.

It's a murkier world that LF has dragged her into and she doesn't like it, but she is safe and out of KL.

The SweetRobin plot is worrying. I don't think she knows how dangerous Sweetsleep is. Maester Coleman seems like a bit of a fusspot and perhaps she is not really comprehending what he is saying. That we don't see Sansa's reaction to the Sweetrobin dying hint, maybe very telling.

In order to actually kill LF as opposed to just thwarting him, she needs someone to tell her what LF did to the Stark family. *

*Okay this is my own hope that Sandor is heading to the Vale with the Elder brother.

[Lion of Judah]

No she is not and I think the incident with the singer and the things Lysa said before going on her trip is very telling. Sansa is in survival mode right now, notice she didn't give any hint that she took what Lysa said to heart. LF doesn't even suspect that she is articulate enough to piece things together, but the fact that she never once asks about what Lysa said told me that she is just playing along.

Edited by Lion Of Judah, 26 January 2013 - 06:35 PM.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think she's in surviving mode too and I agree that at the moment she's out of KL, she has food and a roof and for the moment that might be enough for her to tolerate what's happening but I see her noticing LF's true colours soon enough.

[Roza Ahai]

Sansa has changed her identity, LF might have some control over Alayna, but i think he doesn't have a control over Sansa Stark. Sansa is a warg. She successfully warged into a new image "Alayna" and will be back at appropriate time.

[Mr Motte]

I'd say she doesn't buy most of what he says, and it will soon lead to his downfall. If Littlefinger doesn't soon realize that Sansa isn't buying his lies and schemes, it will be the end of it.

Like others have said, she's in survival mode, and being with him is better than being dead, or in a dungeon.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Rapsie, on 26 January 2013 - 06:33 PM, said:

*Okay this is my own hope that Sandor is heading to the Vale with the Elder brother.

I have the same hope. I don't want the Hound/Sansa story line to be over.

Lion Of Judah, on 26 January 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

No she is not and I think the incident with the singer and the things Lysa said before going on her trip is very telling. Sansa is in survival mode right now, notice she didn't give any hint that she took what Lysa said to heart. LF doesn't even suspect that she is articulate enough to piece things together, but the fact that she never once asks about what Lysa said told me that she is just playing along.

I never thought about that...

[Jaruca]

I don't think she's buying it. I think like others have said that she has nowhere else to go right now, so she is towing the line, biding her time and learning.

Éadaoin, on 26 January 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

.............. Not to mention that she thinks of him admiringly - Nothing frightened Petyr Baelish...................

Hmm, if she thought - Nothing frightened The Mountain, I wouldn't exactly call that admiration. (I have lent out my AFFC and I can't recall the line in context). However, I do think she admires Littlefinger's mastery of the game but not the way he plays it. I think she will continue to watch and learn but the moment she can escape him she will. I believe there is also a passage where she see's someone 'of the north' she knows but is unsure if she should out herself. Imo this demonstrates that she wants to get away from Littlefinger but that she just hasn't found a safe way out.

[Éadaoin]

Jaruca, on 26 January 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Hmm, if she thought - Nothing frightened The Mountain, I wouldn't exactly call that admiration. (I have lent out my AFFC and I can't recall the line in context). However, I do think she admires Littlefinger's mastery of the game but not the way he plays it. I think she will continue to watch and learn but the moment she can escape him she will. I believe there is also a passage where she see's someone 'of the north' she knows but is unsure if she should out herself. Imo this demonstrates that she wants to get away from Littlefinger but that she just hasn't found a safe way out.

Okay, good point. It seemed like she was admiring him when I read it, but perhaps that was just my worry over Sansa presenting itself. And I like your version of things - I have been so undecided about this, and was hoping that this thread could perhaps provide me with some clarity.

eta: and like others have said, I also believe that Sansa is currently "in survival mode".

And where are my manners? Welcome to the forum! oops never mind, just saw that you've been here longer than I have!

Edited by Éadaoin, 26 January 2013 - 07:01 PM.

[Lion of Judah]

Lady Tippy Wolfsbane, on 26 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

I have the same hope. I don't want the Hound/Sansa story line to be over. I never thought about that...

Sansa is going to surprise a lot of people, she was never a favorite of mine but that is beginning to change big time.

[Theda Baratheon]

Lady Tippy Wolfsbane, on 26 January 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

I have the same hope. I don't want the Hound/Sansa story line to be over.

I loved that story line so much .

Beauty and the Beast.

Edited by ~Mya Bara Stone~, 26 January 2013 - 06:58 PM.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

Lion Of Judah, on 26 January 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Sansa is going to surprise a lot of people, she was never a favorite of mine but that is beginning to change big time.

I am re-reading her now, and she is quite awesome. Originally, it was hard to forgive her for the "I love Joffrey" stuff because I never truly looked at things from Sansa's perspective, but things have changed.

[Lady Tippy Wolfsbane]

~Mya Bara Stone~, on 26 January 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Beauty and the Beast.

Yep, and I'm convinced that that's the angle GRRM was going for. The TV show let me down when it came to San/San.