Sansa will be too good to pass up for Aegon

[Lyanna Stark]

How is Margaery any more likely than Sansa. If Sansa is unlikey due to marriage to Tyrion, surely Maergery is just as unlikely due to marriage to Tommen.

Because Tommen is too young to consummate, hence the marriage can be anulled easily. (This is the "nice" option btw.)

Sansa is in hiding, suspected for regicide, Tyrion is far abroad and also suspected for regicide. Hence getting either of them to the High Septon to start the anullment procedure will be very, very unlikely. This means they will remain married at least for a while longer, until such a time that one or both of them can apply for an anullment (or at such a time as a Tysha, fake or real, can be presented to the High Septon as Tyrion's "real" wife.)

Also, if Aegon should become King, that means he needs to remove Tommen, probably by killing him. Margaery will then also be a widow. Unfortunately this the more realistic option, politically, should Aegon go for Margaery. However, Arianne is still the top option. But A Tyrell/Aegon alliance means Tommen needs to be removed. Since the Tyrells poisoned Joffrey, we know they are fully capable of regicide should they need it for the sake of their ambitions.

I wondered why OP's conviction that Sansa has been spared being raped for a higher purpose sounded familiar:

Hah, yes I thought of that too. The Inevitable Rape Theory. If a girl/woman in fiction isn't raped, that is an anomaly, somehow.

[AdrianAegon]

Since Aegon appeared, I always thought he will marry Sansa. Assuming he is A half-Targaryen, half-Martell, and Doran is convinced, or at least thinking is the best idea, Dorne will support him. Arianne will probably make a move on him, but they will not marry. She wants to be Princess of Dorne, not Queen of Westeros.

Margaery brings The Reach, she has a ruinous reputation by marrying 3 kings, one of wich is still alive. The Reach will not fight alone in a war against Dorne and the Stormlands. Plus, Sansa is to join in, The Tyrells will yeld, because the Lannisters are worn out. To bring the Reach, Margaery can marry the heir of the Vale, switching once again, place with Sansa.

Sansa is hugely important. She is the last known living and legal child of Eddard Stark. She is the last known living child of Catleyn Tully, sister of the heir-less former lord of The Riverlands. She is also the niece of the former Lady Arryn. + she is already in the Vale. She can make a plea to the Vale lords, who, most of them, are honorable. And there is LF, who can make a play in one way or another. Sansa's marriage to Tyrion can be easily annuled, with one inspection. (fun fact though. Since Tyrion IS the heir of Casterly Rock, she is Lady of Casterly Rock, so she, technically, can demand some sort of allegience from the Westerlands :)))

Sansa has Stark blood, Tully blood, and ties to the Vale. Three regions can rally in her support, if they want to, and at least the ones who are still loyal to the former Great Houses. (Blackwoods, Vances, Pipers, Mallisters for the Tully; most of the northern houses for the Starks).

So Aegon + Sansa= huge momentum. There is The North, Riverlands, Vale, Stormlands and Dorne. Tyrells and the Lannisters are alone and fighting each other. Lannisters are becoming weak, so the Tyrells would join in, just for not suffering more casualties.

[summer_stark]

It's from Seanen McGuire's livejournal-she's a sci-fi author best known for her October Daye detective series.

Hmm. I need to new series--is it good? Sounds like it could be sorta like the Dresden files? (which I loved--more urban fantasy detective than sic fi, but they were a blast)

[Winter's Knight]

Hmm. I need to new series--is it good? Sounds like it could be sorta like the Dresden files? (which I loved--more urban fantasy detective than sic fi, but they were a blast)

I haven't yet read her books I'm afraid. If you pick them up do tell me how they are?

[Lyanna Stark]

So Aegon + Sansa= huge momentum. There is The North, Riverlands, Vale, Stormlands and Dorne. Tyrells and the Lannisters are alone and fighting each other. Lannisters are becoming weak, so the Tyrells would join in, just for not suffering more casualties.

Sansa is Sansa Lannister now though, which a lot of people conveniently forget. ;) She's also wanted for regicide.

[Ducks in a Field]

Sansa is Sansa Lannister now though, which a lot of people conveniently forget. ;) She's also wanted for regicide.

This smacks of picking and choosing your argument. She is wanted for regicide by a false crown (accarding to Aegon, and he will be the one marrying her) - She has also recieved no trial.

She is Sansa Lannister according to gods her people don't believe in, and at sword point from false kings. These things can very easily be put aside by those that care too - Alot more easily than the Tyrell complicity in the Lannister rule.

I am not arguing that Sansa is the person most likely to marry Aegon, I don't think anybody will (because frankly it would be a stupid move an Arrianne's part for her to marry him), but your argument that Sansa cannot marry him does seem to rely on Aegon abiding by the Lannister laws.

[Lyanna Stark]

This smacks of picking and choosing your argument. She is wanted for regicide by a false crown (accarding to Aegon, and he will be the one marrying her) - She has also recieved no trial.

She is Sansa Lannister according to gods her people don't believe in, and at sword point from false kings. These things can very easily be put aside by those that care too - Alot more easily than the Tyrell complicity in the Lannister rule.

I am not arguing that Sansa is the person most likely to marry Aegon, I don't think anybody will (because frankly it would be a stupid move an Arrianne's part for her to marry him), but your argument that Sansa cannot marry him does seem to rely on Aegon abiding by the Lannister laws.

No, they cannot easily be put aside and it has nothing to do with "Lannister laws" but the laws of the realm and how they Faith of the Seven works.

1. There is only one way you can have a marriage put aside, i.e. anulled, and it is described in the So Spake Martin. It is also discussed by Jaime and Cersei wrt Tommen. Tywin also pressures Tyrion to consummate his marriage to Sansa for this very reason. An unconsummated marriage can be put aside by the High Septon or a Council of Faith.

HOWEVER, that demands that one, or both, of the participants in the marriage apply for it with the High Septon, very likely in person, since identity cannot be confirmed in a letter. (The applicants' identity and need to apply are also stated in the SSM.)

2. Sansa cannot go to Kings Landing due to being suspected of regicide.

3. Tyrion cannot go to Kings Landing due to being suspected, and also found guilty, of regicide. (He is also in Essos, which further complicates matters.)

4. Hence none of them can go to the High Septon to apply for an anullment.

Ergo, Sansa and Tyrion are currently not in a position to get an anullment to their marriage.

There is one possibility that could void the marriage however, and may not require an anullment, which is that "a Tysha" can claim that Tyrion's second marriage is to be made void since the first one was not properly anulled. See here for more theory on that particular line of thought.

This also negates the fact that Sansa, even should she be able to, maybe would not want to marry Aegon. She is certainly not keen on being married for her claim in AFFC, so I am not sure what would make her change her mind so suddenly.

[Ducks in a Field]

No, they cannot easily be put aside and it has nothing to do with "Lannister laws" but the laws of the realm and how they Faith of the Seven works.

1. There is only one way you can have a marriage put aside, i.e. anulled

I am not arguing this point at all - Although I would argue you can also be widowed (Not seeing that as an answer to the solution btw, just pointing it out)

2. Sansa cannot go to Kings Landing due to being suspected of regicide.

I would actually argue the reason she cannot go to king's landing is that she is Littlefingers prisoner, even if she doesn't quite realise it. Regardless, she can go to King's Landing - She would be arrested and have to stand trial for regicide currently - murder, not regicide if she goes after Aegon takes it. I am not arguing that if she wanted to marry Aegon then she would walk into Tommen's court and ask permission to divorce his uncle.

This also negates the fact that Sansa, even should she be able to, maybe would not want to marry Aegon. She is certainly not keen on being married for her claim in AFFC, so I am not sure what would make her change her mind so suddenly.

This is perhaps the most prudent argument against a Sansa/Aegon marriage.

What I mean by Lannister Laws, is not that their entire system will be thrown out upon Aegon taking KL, and everything they ever did will be razed and there way of life scourged from the seven kingdoms.

What I mean to say is that the North in the main worship the old gods - They will likely not see a marriage performed by the clergy of the seven that has never been consumated as binding.

Not only that, but Sansa was forced to marry Tyrion, more or less against her will. The faith went along with it because they were in the pocket of those who currently held the Iron Throne. Should Aegon hold the throne and want to marry Sansa - I am sure the faith would anul her marriage to Tyrion quickly enough. Likewise I am sure that the faith would anull the marriage between Maergary and Tommen if Aegon wanted her and had the throne - But I bet if Maergerys asked whilst Tommen was still queen the faith would refuse.

None of this matters though, because whilst Sansa might be the smartest political choice she is not an available one. Littlefinger will not let her free from the Vale and from himself. Even if she does get free, I think Sansa has put aside her dreams of kings and fathering princes, I am fairly sure she would just want to go home to Winterfell and have a life in the North.

[Lyanna Stark]

I am not arguing this point at all - Although I would argue you can also be widowed (Not seeing that as an answer to the solution btw, just pointing it out)

Widowing means one part is dead. What was argued here is that Sansa and Tyrion are both still alive. Hence widowing is a moot point for the sake of this discussion.

I would actually argue the reason she cannot go to king's landing is that she is Littlefingers prisoner, even if she doesn't quite realise it. Regardless, she can go to King's Landing - She would be arrested and have to stand trial for regicide currently - murder, not regicide if she goes after Aegon takes it. I am not arguing that if she wanted to marry Aegon then she would walk into Tommen's court and ask permission to divorce his uncle.

She CAN go to Kings Landing yes but it would be blindingly stupid so long as either the Tyrells or the Lannisters are around. Even then there is no guarantee that she would go free. And in this case, an anullment has nothing to do with the king or the court, only the High Septon or a Council of Faith can grant it. The King is irrelevant to the matter. They got married in the light of the Seven. Also, the High Septon is currently the High Sparrow, and he is not likely to be pressured into anything by the king. Further, he is capable of exacting his own justice independently of the crown. Hence another instance where Sansa could be prosecuted: by the Faith.

What I mean by Lannister Laws, is not that their entire system will be thrown out upon Aegon taking KL, and everything they ever did will be razed and there way of life scourged from the seven kingdoms.

Unless you are arguing that the Faith of the Seven will be thrown out, you have no leg to stand on regarding the marriage though. They were not married "under Lannister laws" they were married in the light of the Seven. Who was king at the time is irrelevant, as when marriages are concerned, the High Septon and the Faith are the actors in charge of making decisions. Not the Lannisters or the Starks or any other family. They cannot undo a marriage, only the Faith can.

What I mean to say is that the North in the main worship the old gods - They will likely not see a marriage performed by the clergy of the seven that has never been consumated as binding.

That means Ned and Cat weren't married either, since they married in the light of the Seven in Riverrun. So which is it? It's binding, or it's not? We also have seen no sign from the north that marriages made in the light of the Seven is somehow not valid in the north. There is simply no evidence to back that up. What we do see is Stannis, a follower of Rh'llor, definitely seeing it as valid as he calls Sansa "Lady Lannister". And Stannis is in the north, so should southern marriages generally be seen as invalid in the north, Stannis should know this and Jon would definitely tell him if that was the case. There is nothing that indicates Jon, Robb, Cat, Stannis or anyone else sees Sansa's marriage to Tyrion as invalid. In fact, the marriage is the reason she is being disinherited by Robb. And Robb should know how the laws of the north work, no?

Not only that, but Sansa was forced to marry Tyrion, more or less against her will. The faith went along with it because they were in the pocket of those who currently held the Iron Throne. Should Aegon hold the throne and want to marry Sansa - I am sure the faith would anul her marriage to Tyrion quickly enough. Likewise I am sure that the faith would anull the marriage between Maergary and Tommen if Aegon wanted her and had the throne - But I bet if Maergerys asked whilst Tommen was still queen the faith would refuse.

"Against her will" has no bearing on what the Faith will do though. As stated in the SSM, there is only one way to get an anullment: by way of the High Septon or Council of Faith and it involves at least one of the participants applying for it. It has nothing to do with Sansa being unwilling, or underage, or a captive or anything else. Nor about Lannisters being in charge. Those things are irrelevant for the actual proceedings.

Margaery could apply for an anullment as well, but the likelier outcome should Aegon want to marry Margaery is that Tommen will be murdered.

None of this matters though, because whilst Sansa might be the smartest political choice she is not an available one. Littlefinger will not let her free from the Vale and from himself. Even if she does get free, I think Sansa has put aside her dreams of kings and fathering princes, I am fairly sure she would just want to go home to Winterfell and have a life in the North.

On that, we are in complete agreement!

[AdrianAegon]

This also negates the fact that Sansa, even should she be able to, maybe would not want to marry Aegon. She is certainly not keen on being married for her claim in AFFC, so I am not sure what would make her change her mind so suddenly.

Oh, but I believe that Sansa is to become one of the most formidable players in the game of thrones. She will become queen, if the oportunity arises. In the beginning, spoiled-annoying Sansa wanted to become queen just because seemed such a lovely idea to marry sweet Joffrey. Now, reasons have changed... a different Sansa, a different king...

[Lyanna Stark]

Oh, but I believe that Sansa is to become one of the most formidable players in the game of thrones. She will become queen, if the oportunity arises. In the beginning, spoiled-annoying Sansa wanted to become queen just because seemed such a lovely idea to marry sweet Joffrey. Now, reasons have changed... a different Sansa, a different king...

Becoming Queen will not enable her as a player though. She will have no power as Queen. What she will become is a proverbial brood mare to Aegon, instead of a brood mare to Joffrey. See Cersei's words about Robert.

And she is going to outplay Varys how?

[Ducks in a Field]

Oh, but I believe that Sansa is to become one of the most formidable players in the game of thrones. She will become queen, if the oportunity arises. In the beginning, spoiled-annoying Sansa wanted to become queen just because seemed such a lovely idea to marry sweet Joffrey. Now, reasons have changed... a different Sansa, a different king...

I once read a post claiming that GRRM had said that the best swordsman in Westeros was not even a knight. Many people took that to mean the Hound, others Syrio Forel. I thought it would be very intresting if somewhere in the seven kingdoms there was a man, so skilled in swordmanship, who perhaps due to a war long ago had forsworn the blade altogether - and even though none could stand against him, not the hound, not Barristan Selmy, not the kingslayer or even Arthur Dayne himself - He would never pick up a sword again.

Just because Sansa is learning from Littlefinger doesn't mean she has to use it - Surely looking at what has happened to her you would see why she wouldn't?

Becoming Queen will not enable her as a player though. She will have no power as Queen. What she will become is a proverbial brood mare to Aegon, instead of a brood mare to Joffrey. See Cersei's words about Robert.

And she is going to outplay Varys how?

Whilst I don't disagree with you about the power being diminshed, I think Cersei had more power than she was willing to admit, just not as much as she wanted. I also think a more skilled "player" would have had even more power.

Whether Littlefinger's student would be better than Varys is something I think we could debate until Dreams of Spring has had it's 100th aniversary, it is not in Sansa's nature to act that way.

As I said before - Just because she has the skill does not mean that she will want to use it - She has seen the wages of power - First on Cersei, who gave her so much advice, and then on Littlefinger. She has seen what a crown did to Robb, she knows what happened to Renly.

Why would Sansa, who dreams of nothing but being part of her family again, decide that she needs to play that game?

[Winter's Knight]

I'd rather she become Queen sans king, y'know? A la

[AdrianAegon]

Becoming Queen will not enable her as a player though. She will have no power as Queen. What she will become is a proverbial brood mare to Aegon, instead of a brood mare to Joffrey. See Cersei's words about Robert.

And she is going to outplay Varys how?

Cersei is a stupid bitch-queen, and yet she had some power, even influenced Robert. I always thought Sansa is a smart girl, and with a bit of tact and well-placed words, she could easily become a powerful queen. And after everything is over, who says she could not become Alysanne the Second?

Oh, nobody can outplay Varys, but, yet again, why wouldn't Varys let Aegon marry Sansa?

Just because Sansa is learning from Littlefinger doesn't mean she has to use it - Surely looking at what has happened to her you would see why she wouldn't?

Whilst I don't disagree with you about the power being diminshed, I think Cersei had more power than she was willing to admit, just not as much as she wanted. I also think a more skilled "player" would have had even more power.

Whether Littlefinger's student would be better than Varys is something I think we could debate until Dreams of Spring has had it's 100th aniversary, it is not in Sansa's nature to act that way.

As I said before - Just because she has the skill does not mean that she will want to use it - She has seen the wages of power - First on Cersei, who gave her so much advice, and then on Littlefinger. She has seen what a crown did to Robb, she knows what happened to Renly.

Why would Sansa, who dreams of nothing but being part of her family again, decide that she needs to play that game?

To enact revenge and make justice. I believe that Sansa will sacrifice her happiness just for to make justice for her family.

[Ducks in a Field]

To enact revenge and make justice. I believe that Sansa will sacrifice her happiness just for to make justice for her family.

Justice for her family requires her to be Queen? - I would have thought once Joffery, Tywin, Walder Frey, Littlefinger and Theon were dead and her family pardoned with their lands restored she would have that justice.

She almost certainly would sacrifice her own happiness to get that Justice, but I don't see how becoming queen is going to help that at all.

Edit : Including Littlefinger in the list of baddies

[ARYa_Nym]

Cersei is a stupid bitch-queen, and yet she had some power, even influenced Robert. I always thought Sansa is a smart girl, and with a bit of tact and well-placed words, she could easily become a powerful queen. And after everything is over, who says she could not become Alysanne the Second?

He's no Jaehaerys. In ADWD he said something who is there left in Westeros to oppose me? A woman.

As said once his disguise was done then he started to be harder to control. He wants to do what he wants. Someone who had to have patience his whole life and will finally have power is someone I don't see wanting to share it.

I've recently entertained Arya saying of Dareon that he was fair of face and foul of heart is exactly how she will see Aegon before she kills him if that theory is true.

[Lyanna Stark]

He's no Jaehaerys. In ADWD he said something who is there left in Westeros to oppose me? A woman.

As said once his disguise was done then he started to be harder to control. He wants to do what he wants. Someone who had to have patience his whole life and will finally have power is someone I don't see wanting to share it.

I've recently entertained Arya saying of Dareon that he was fair of face and foul of heart is exactly how she will see Aegon before she kills him if that theory is true.

Yes, I am not sure how people think that Sansa will somehow outsmart Aegon and Varys by way of her magic knees or something. Aegon may be pretty, but he's definitely not free of issues, and he's certainly proven to be negative towards being ruled by a woman. He also saw it as his right to marry Dany, regardless of what she thought (and Dany has accomplished far more than f!Aegon),

He wilfully appointed his own Kingsguard despite Jon Conn disagreeing with his choice.

So no, I doubt that Sansa could play "Good Queen Alysanne" in that and she has no posse like Olenna Tyrell has to draw organisational power from. While Olenna is certainly clever and funny, she relies a lot on having the Tyrell network and financial strength. Sansa would have none of those. Littlefinger relies a lot on his riches to buy up people's debts, to pay of people, to place his own people within organisations, from the bottom up. Sansa has none of this either. Even if she has the game playing strengths of Varys, Olenna and LF combined, her lack of connections, network and resources are things that would severely impair her progress.

Anything else is really unrealistic.

Justice for her family requires her to be Queen? - I would have thought once Joffery, Tywin, Walder Frey and Theon were dead and her family pardoned with their lands restored she would have that justice.

She almost certainly would sacrifice her own happiness to get that Justice, but I don't see how becoming queen is going to help that at all.

One more person to enact justice on: Littlefinger. ;)

He was behind Ned's beheading, behind the lie to Cat, behind Jon Arryn's murder, he worked to sow chaos in the Seven Kingdoms and he was behind getting Tyrion and in extension Sansa blamed for Joffrey's murder. He even made Sansa carry the murder weapon on her person. LF also made sure Jeyne Poole were beaten and "trained" as a prostitute and then facilitated her being sent to Ramsay Snow.

[western wolf]

i am on the fence as to who will marry Aegon, or as to whether or not he's really a Targaryen or a Blackfyre. Either way, I don't think he'll get close to either Sansa or Arya. They're both out of his reach for now.

[Ducks in a Field]

He's no Jaehaerys. In ADWD he said something who is there left in Westeros to oppose me? A woman.

As said once his disguise was done then he started to be harder to control. He wants to do what he wants. Someone who had to have patience his whole life and will finally have power is someone I don't see wanting to share it.

I've recently entertained Arya saying of Dareon that he was fair of face and foul of heart is exactly how she will see Aegon before she kills him if that theory is true.

I think people are giving (F?)Aegon a bit of a hard rap at the minute. I read his wilfulness as a positive thing at the end. Him wanting to lead the attack on Storms End was in my mind as much about a king needing to be seen as doing something - especially if he is returning to westeros from a posistion of exile - as it was about the glory. Him promoting Duck to the King's Guard was about rewarding a good man, reminisent of the lowborn Dunk ascending to the position. He knows that a king has a duty to all - not just the glorious and the highborn.

Sure his veiws on woman are far less than enlightened - But I think he is assumng Cersei is not much of a battle commander based on her gender - And he is right, she was not trained in warfare because she was a woman. He has not decried woman as only good for breeding and seems to value the idea of Dany's support as his queen rather than thinking she should let go of her aspirations to the throne because his claim is better.

Aegon does have the potential to go either way in my opinion. At the moment I take the view that he would be a good king - knowing his duty rather than his right - but there are things he might easily do in the next book that would change my mind.

One more person to enact justice on: Littlefinger. ;)

He was behind Ned's beheading, behind the lie to Cat, behind Jon Arryn's murder, he worked to sow chaos in the Seven Kingdoms and he was behind getting Tyrion and in extension Sansa blamed for Joffrey's murder. He even made Sansa carry the murder weapon on her person. LF also made sure Jeyne Poole were beaten and "trained" as a prostitute and then facilitated her being sent to Ramsay Snow.

Quite right - edited my original post.

[AdrianAegon]

Justice for her family requires her to be Queen? - I would have thought once Joffery, Tywin, Walder Frey, Littlefinger and Theon were dead and her family pardoned with their lands restored she would have that justice.

She almost certainly would sacrifice her own happiness to get that Justice, but I don't see how becoming queen is going to help that at all.

Edit : Including Littlefinger in the list of baddies

Well, being queen, is like, making sure that what she holds dear will be kept safe, as long as she remains queen. She makes justice, but to keep it, and to prevent something else bad happening, she must hold on to that position.

He's no Jaehaerys. In ADWD he said something who is there left in Westeros to oppose me? A woman.

I said about her being a good queen as Alysanne. Not Aegon being another Jaeherys. :P Maybe another Daeron. Yes, Aegon might be a little stubborn now, but he is 17, and after all this years of being hidden, and with blue hair all the time, I guess I would be a little to eager to do something. He has his faults, but overall he seems like a nice guy.