Self-publishing; Fad or Future?

[polishgenius]

Excuse the terrible title. >_> And let's not let rudeness obscure an interesting discussion, I reckon. I wanted to reply to something Wert said in the closed topic:

and I do think it's only a matter of time before the next GRRM, Erikson or whomever comes out of self-publishing, not because they 'can't get a deal' but out of open choice and because they want more money than the 10-15% they'd get from a professional publisher.

I think things will have to change a very great deal still before we get to that point, though. At the moment, we're at the stage where authors are getting noticed and successful through indie publishing, but as far as I can tell the ones who do are taking publishing house offers when they come along; presumably because while they get a much smaller share of the pie, that's at the moment more than countered by the promotional opportunities offered by a publishing house.

Getting good word of mouth is a great help, but those of us who chatter about these sorts of books on the internet are still a drop in the pond in terms of sales and I think that's going to have to change before we see an indie writer take off on their own.

SE is a fairly useful illustration of the problem here: he's successful, obviously, but the Malazan series is I gather quite notable as a series of which the Internet presence is far in excess, proportionally, of its sales compared to other books and series. A self-published book could generate some sizeable online buzz without making any real dent in sales, and they need that buzz a whole lot more.

Anyone got any thoughts on this? How is the scene changing and what else does it need to change to get useful attention? Is there any sort of process- even just between authors, say, cross-promoting other good work they find if they build themselves a fanbase- for sorting the good from the bad? What does the indie publishing blogosphere look like? I do confess, I know very little about this. I don't read anything independent at the moment, but I think it's worth trying to get a discussion going...

[Lannes]

I think with e-reader use spreading like wildfire, self-publishing will only become more common....and, while much of that output will be god awful, some of that output will be excellent. There are excellent self-published books out there right now.

[Daario's*before*Snows]

Indies and do it yourselfers sure enhanced the quality of music and film industry.

[Larry.]

I've had limited but positive experiences with a certain type of SF/F self-publishing. More and more, as Seli and I were discussing in the locked thread, established SF/F writers are turning to self-publishing or creating their own boutique e-presses to publish a certain type of fiction that would barely meet the margins of certain publisher lists yet which have their own niche audiences. The VanderMeers with their Cheeky Frawg Press (disclaimer: I have a translation published in their October 2011 anthology, ODD?); K.J. Bishop with her story collection; Tim Pratt with his new collection and an omnibus collection paid for via Kickstarter; Tobias Buckell with the funding of his new Xenowealth novel; and others whose names don't immediate come to mind. It seems there's a growing trend toward things that used to appear in genre print magazines or small presses being self-published by established writers as a means of testing the sort of market there truly is for e-book/"indie" publishing.

I provided a link in the other thread for a major self-publishing forum, if you want to investigate that.

[Darth Richard]

Wheeere do these people come from?

[Larry.]

Wheeere do these people come from?

Wombs, most of them at least.

[The Anti-Targ]

Self publishing will be (is) a breeding ground for tomorrow's great writers. Publishing houses being the gatekeepers for how the public accesses literature and poetry is not a model that is set in stone, and it doesn't particularly serve the artists' best interests either.

When accessing the mass market required printing thousands of copies of one's work, with the associated printing and distribution costs, publishers became a necessary middle man. But e-distribution makes publishers and distributors unnecessary.

There's an entirely different business model available where the writer will be able to pocket 80-90% of the value of their work by having a direct connection to the reader, thus allowing them to live as a full time writer on a much lower sales base. And the writer gets to own their copyright forever (or at least until it runs out) rather than handing over the rights to a middle man.

[Rob B]

It is the past AND the future. Lots of writers are bringing their backlists into electronic print, self publishing their work that has gone out of print.

[MisterOJ]

I think things will have to change a very great deal still before we get to that point, though. At the moment, we're at the stage where authors are getting noticed and successful through indie publishing, but as far as I can tell the ones who do are taking publishing house offers when they come along; presumably because while they get a much smaller share of the pie, that's at the moment more than countered by the promotional opportunities offered by a publishing house.

Maybe. But I think Hugh Howey will wind up being the poster child for the successful indy author. And that's not what he did.

His Wool books became so successful that the big publishers came after him, but instead of just signing a traditional deal, he was able to get a deal that allowed himself to retain the rights to his ebooks, while allowing S&S to publish his print books.

Since ebooks is the future, but it's still "cool" to see your book on a shelf, that's the perfect deal for an indy author.

[SkynJay]

While I have read a grand total of three self-pub books, I have had good luck with two of them, and only read one real clunker.

That said, is there any reason for an aspiring author to not go the self pub route? If they really believe in it, why wait for the big publishers to notice? Make a few bucks, perhaps gain buzz and get that deal. Is there any reason they can not keep submitting the book to publishers as well? (He asks because he truly doesn't know).

[kcf]

That said, is there any reason for an aspiring author to not go the self pub route? If they really believe in it, why wait for the big publishers to notice? Make a few bucks, perhaps gain buzz and get that deal. Is there any reason they can not keep submitting the book to publishers as well? (He asks because he truly doesn't know).

Let's say this aspiring author is a good one. One who should be published and has a great potential to be hit and a monetary success. This means that the aspiring author is good at writing. But, is said aspiring author good at promoting, marketing, proof reading, distributing, etc? Is the said aspiring author trained in contracts and contract negotiation? Is said aspiring author good at managing people, subcontractors, their finances? Etc. Etc.

Publishing houses for all their faults have professionals to fill all the roles I mention above and many more. Our hypothetical author above may be a great author, but they may not have any time left over after dealing with the proverbial bullshit to actually write. Publishers provide expertise and allow the author freedom to actually write. They make a professional product and adhere to standards that are generally known. (John Scalzi has a great post somewhere that goes into all this - he's been on both sides of the coin)

So, no, in my opionion an aspiring author is much better off with a publisher unless they the time, expertise, or support network to do what a publisher does. With all that said, a big name author with money to invest and a devoted audience. Why should they stick with a publisher when they can self pub for a much higher profit?

[Centrist Simon Steele]

I don't know, for me self publishing my first book was purely a way for me to move on after ten years of obsessing, revising, editing, revising, editing, and so on. Getting it out there has forced me to let it go, and in the mean time I've sold enough to pay off my son's hospital bills for the year! It isn't a huge sum but for a single father middle school teacher, it really added up.

Of course in the big scheme of things the buzz for it still equals about ZERO.

But that's okay, I am writing other things now and done with the obsessing. Is it a valid model? Who knows. One thing I have learned is that it won't happen overnight and I absolutely have to have patience. I'm pretty happy with where things stand now, but I wouldn't mind trying to go a more traditional route on my next novel.

Edit: And in response to kcf, I would say that my ability to promote effectively is not a skill I have. My website sucks, my promotion skills suck, and my ability to generate interest sucks. I am left with hoping the book is good enough to promote itself, which, let's be honest, is never the case.

[Angalin]

While I have read a grand total of three self-pub books, I have had good luck with two of them, and only read one real clunker.

That said, is there any reason for an aspiring author to not go the self pub route? If they really believe in it, why wait for the big publishers to notice? Make a few bucks, perhaps gain buzz and get that deal. Is there any reason they can not keep submitting the book to publishers as well? (He asks because he truly doesn't know).

A good example would be EL James, author of the Fifty Shades books. She self-published, the books were a wild success, and when the trilogy was picked up by a mainstream publisher she pulled the online versions. There's some discussion of it on wikipedia and here (along with a lot of comments going back and forth on the ethics of earning money by publishing what is essentially fanfiction, but let's not get into that can of worms here). But it took Fifty Shades - which is a terrible, terrible book and has its own thread for mockery - selling like hotcakes for the big publishers to notice it. I'd say that as a rule, publishers want fresh material.

eta: for full mockery and dismissal of Fifty Shades, see this thread (now closed for length)

[Shryke]

It also probably helped that no one thought it would ever sell. :P

Apparently they were overestimating the reading public.

[SkynJay]

My question wasn't clear, and that is my fault. I will try this again. Would the fact that the book is for sale on in e-book format keep a publisher from picking up said book if it was still in their submission file? Does self-published preclude the author from still submitting the material hoping for better distribution?

[Tears of Lys]

I'd write pornography and get rich, but I could never face my parents.

I'll have to wait until after they die. :leaving:

[Larry.]

My question wasn't clear, and that is my fault. I will try this again. Would the fact that the book is for sale on in e-book format keep a publisher from picking up said book if it was still in their submission file? Does self-published preclude the author from still submitting the material hoping for better distribution?

It can, since not only would the e-book rights be part of the negotiations, but also many publishers want first publication rights in a region for particular works. Reprint rights would have to be negotiated and there can be trouble in terms of marketing a "new" writer when that work is neither "new" nor already widely known. But that doesn't make it impossible. It just depends on individual contract negotiations.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

You can get a decent book cover for about 50 dollars now. Signing up for KDP Select gives you 5 free days every 90 days, and using sites like Bookbub, Pixels of Ink, and Ereader News Today can get you out in front of about a million people on their collective newslists/twitters/facebooks. It's not uncommon for books to give away tens of thousands of copies and get tons of buzz without needing a bit of skill at promoting yourself. The one downside still remains the search for a good editor...prices are rising and those claiming to be editors when they're just some guy are rising even faster.

Looking back on when I first published the debut novel of my Urban Fantasy series in 2011...things are vastly better for a newbie than they were then. There's actually more reason to self publish nowadays than there ever has been before.

Personally, it wasn't that I didn't think I could get an agent or that I got rejected over and over...I didn't even bother with that whole route. You're talking months even years just waiting around. I'm not a Howey or Hocking, but I have built myself up to about 100 to 200 sales a month from no sales ever when I stared this thing...I'm going to be releasing the third book in the series sometime this year too, and it's all extremely rewarding.

Speaking about Howey, I think his deal for only print rights was a huge breakthrough. To me...that's the eventual future. The Publishers will survive to print ebook bestsellers.

[Errant Bard]

I wonder, without those "gatekeepers", and with a model relying on popularity for visibility, wouldn't that mean that the fifty shades-like crap would be what's actually read, and we would miss reading the Vandermeer, Duncan, Wolfe because they would be lost among the millions of unread fanfictions wannabe millionaires woul push out there?

I think at least some gatekeepers are needed, even if they are not the current publishing houses.

[Angalin]

I think it's very hard to edit your own story effectively, being so close to it. At least one reader is necessary to pick up on the gaffes, whether plot-related or typographic. Are there that many reputable editors-for-hire out there?

(mod note)

Self-publishing is a tricky subject; be polite to the other people in the discussion, even and especially when you don't agree with them.