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Finding bits of LOTR influences in ASOIAF


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#1 Fire Eater

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:24 PM

I started this thread after a conversation with Jon's Queen Consort on the parallels Jon has with Aragorn. I now see plenty of LOTR influences/homages in ASOIAF.

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the Dúnedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her Dúnedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.

The Elendils left Numenor, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the island was swallowed by the sea, and kept what would be the last line of White Trees, a mystical tree from Numenor and the island's signature tree that became the sigil of House Elendil, the kings of Gondor.

The Targaryens left Valyria, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the Doom came and much of the peninsula was swallowed by the sea, and kept the last dragons with them, dragons being the signature creatures of Valyria. The dragon would become the sigil of House Targaryen, the kings of Westeros.

Ancalagon the Black, was the largest and mightiest of the winged, fire-breathing dragons in Middle Earth, and he was said to be so large that his wingspan was able to blot out the light of the sun. Balerion the Black Dread was the largest of the Targaryen dragons in Westeros, and he was said to have a wingspan so vast that entire towns would be covered up in his shadow when he flew overhead.

If there are other influences from LOTR, please bring them up.


Edited by Fire Eater, 09 November 2013 - 11:32 PM.


#2 Where Boars Glow

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:25 PM

I would say Sam Tarly character is a bit of an homage to Samwell Ganche.

Edited by Where whores go <-, 30 January 2013 - 04:26 PM.


#3 Littlefingers In The Air

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

I think just the scenery overall is an homage to LOTR to a lesser extent, at least to the films. When I watch an episode of Game of Thrones, I'm reminded of the movies taking place in New Zealand.

#4 hollowcrown

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that [part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the Dúnedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her Dúnedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.


Aragorn's dad was also of the Northern Kingdom though and takes after his dad too I thought?

#5 Bolivar

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:32 PM

Recently going through them all, there was a lot of basic things beyond the more "2 and 2 together" putting the OP mentioned, but the only two I can think of now:

The falcons and their Eyrie.

Towards the end of The Hobbit, the characters are trying to get things done with a sense of urgency, repeating the phrase " and Winter is coming."

#6 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:38 PM

I think that this poem:

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king. (JRRTolkien)

works perfectly in ASOIAF.

The CotF are ASOIAF's elves.

The arrival of the First men=Dagor-nuin-Giliath

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 30 January 2013 - 04:38 PM.


#7 Little Wing

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:40 PM

Theon/Reek transformation and duality reminds me of Smeagol/Gollum in LotR.

#8 Jon Wolfwalker

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:43 PM

Arya Underfoot always reminds me of Underhill(Underheel)

#9 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:48 PM

Gondolin reminds me of Winterfell and Storm's End
and King Turgon of Bran the Builder

The Noldor had grey eyes and dark hair like the First men.(I do think that the Noldor=First men)

Gil-galad "Star of bright light" reminds me the "Star of the Morning"

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort, 30 January 2013 - 04:48 PM.


#10 TheGreyKraken

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:52 PM

Theon/Reek transformation and duality reminds me of Smeagol/Gollum in LotR.

Oh my, Great observation! Two characters that have been transformed completely.

#11 Son of a Harpy

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 04:59 PM

Sean Bean died early in both of them.

#12 Kateastrophic

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

Somehow I always felt that Cersei's title of "Light of the West" sounded like something that deserved a Quenya translation...
Also the association of the West with "magic" in LotR seems to be reversed in ASoIaF, where "all the magic had gone from the West" (can't remember the exact quote), and the "magic stuff" is apparently stronger in the east.
But a bit more direct: Brandon the Shipwright. Wasn't there a king of Númenor named Tar-Ciryatan (Shipwright)?
Adds even more to the First Men = Númenoreans feeling...
Some of Sam's lines or internal monologues remind me of the other Sam's lines... When Gilly asks him "Is it far, still?" and he replies with, "Not so far. Not so far as it was.", I half expected a "Mr. Frodo" in there...

Edited by Kateastrophic, 30 January 2013 - 05:28 PM.


#13 Lyanna Stark

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:02 PM

The sacking of Winterfell I believe GRRM has said is inspired by the Scouring of the Shire, and they do have similarities, just that the Sack of Winterfell sort of comes earlier in the story than the scouring of the Shire.

You know, one weird parallel is the sibling incest of Turin Turambar/Nienor Niniel and Jaime/Cersei. Apart from them being siblings they don't have a huge amount in common, but you know...sibling incest isn't *that* common.

Some of Sam's lines or internal monologues remind me of the other Sam's lines... When Gilly asks him "Is it far, still?" and he replies with, "Not so far. Not so far as it was.", I half expected a "Mr. Frodo" in there...


Yes, I agree with this. Sam has definitely "Sam" vibes. Samwell and Samwise after all, so similar, brave despite not having been born to be warriors. And both sidekicks to one of the main heroes, too. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />


I've also written a few long posts on how romance in ASOIAF is inspired by romance in LOTR, if we assume that it will be bittersweet (which I believe GRRM has stated).

Edited by Lyanna Stark, 30 January 2013 - 05:29 PM.


#14 Minsc

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:08 PM

Aragorn's dad was also of the Northern Kingdom though and takes after his dad too I thought?


Aragorn was also the Chieftain of the Dúnedain, aka the hereditary ruler of the Rangers of the North. While, Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night Watch, an organization similar to the traditional fanasty mythos of rangers.

#15 The Doctor's Consort

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:15 PM

Robert's pain over Lyanna's loss reminds me of Finwe's pain over Miriel's loss.
War of Wrath is like Battle of the Trident. Only in the BotT it was the dynasty that changed when in WoW the world had changed.

#16 Stannis Eats No Peaches

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:27 PM

I started this thread after a conversation with Jon's Queen Consort on the parallels Jon has with Aragorn. I now see plenty of LOTR influences/homages in ASOIAF.

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that [part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the D&uacute;nedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her D&uacute;nedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.


The Elendils left Numenor, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the island was swallowed by the sea, and kept what would be the last line of White Trees, a mystical tree from Numenor and the island's signature tree that became the sigil of House Elendil, the kings of Gondor.

The Targaryens left Valyria, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the Doom came and much of the peninsula was swallowed by the sea, and kept the last dragons with them, dragons being the signature creatures of Valyria. The dragon would become the sigil of House Targaryen, the kings of Westeros.

Ancalagon the Black, was the largest and mightiest of the winged, fire-breathing dragons in Middle Earth, and he was said to be so large that his wingspan was able to blot out the light of the sun. Balerion the Black Dread was the largest dragon of the Targaryen dragons in Westeros with a wingspan so vast that entire towns would be covered up in his shadow when he flew overhead.


If there are other influences from LOTR, please bring them up.

/bowdown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bowdown:' />

The Great Other (if it actually exists) and the Others seem to come from The Lands of Always Winter, in the far north of Westeros. Morgoth's fortress, Angband, was located in the far north of Middle Earth.

#17 King Aemon I

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 05:41 PM

I believe Martin likes LOTR and the beauty of its details, but the story is not at all similar.. Just because there are some details alike doesn't mean it influences in scenario..Imo Martin's whole idea of writing these books are breaking the prejudge on "good side - bad side" stuff.. But LOTR is full of it...

#18 Lord Ben

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:31 PM

Having a king who lost his Kingdom isn't new from Tolkien.

While there are similarities there are also as many, and probably more, differences. Aragorn goes up to people and proclaims himself King and people fulfill ancient vows to him. Jon is hidden as a bastard at the very end of the civilized world because if people knew who he was he'd probably be stabbed.

#19 Lion of Judah

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:35 PM

I started this thread after a conversation with Jon's Queen Consort on the parallels Jon has with Aragorn. I now see plenty of LOTR influences/homages in ASOIAF.

Aragorn is descended from the Kings of Gondor, and Jon is descended from the Targaryen kings, that [part is obvious. Aragorn's mother was descended from the first chieftain of the Dúnedain Aranarth, the rightful King of the Northern Kingdom, and takes after his mother in her Dúnedain coloring with grey eyes and dark hair. Jon's mother is descended from the first King in the North, and takes after her in her Stark coloring with dark hair and grey eyes.


The Elendils left Numenor, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the island was swallowed by the sea, and kept what would be the last line of White Trees, a mystical tree from Numenor and the island's signature tree that became the sigil of House Elendil, the kings of Gondor.

The Targaryens left Valyria, the highest human civilization that fell to a cataclysmic event, before the Doom came and much of the peninsula was swallowed by the sea, and kept the last dragons with them, dragons being the signature creatures of Valyria. The dragon would become the sigil of House Targaryen, the kings of Westeros.

Ancalagon the Black, was the largest and mightiest of the winged, fire-breathing dragons in Middle Earth, and he was said to be so large that his wingspan was able to blot out the light of the sun. Balerion the Black Dread was the largest dragon of the Targaryen dragons in Westeros with a wingspan so vast that entire towns would be covered up in his shadow when he flew overhead.


If there are other influences from LOTR, please bring them up.

Do I need to say I agree? Very insightful, it's been a while since I read LOTR but when I read ASOIAF I remember thinking about it's similarities to LOTR.

#20 Florina Laufeyson

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 06:38 PM

Well there is that wildling dude called:
Soren Shieldbreaker

Thorin Oakenshield....

Yeah GRRM, i totes saw what you did there.