The role of Braavos in tWoW

[Arya_Ghostface]

It appears that Braavos, both as a location and as far as its institutions are concerned, will be featured a lot in tWoW. Looks like the Iron Bank is properly meddling in Westeros affairs now, and since where there's money there's power, it is quite safe to assume that some of the sides they seem to be supporting (Stannis, Jon, maybe others we don't know of?) will achieve their goals and go on to rule the kingdom or part of it, trying to pay off their debts.

Won't that make the Iron Bank the de facto ruler of Westeros? Can't the rulers of Westeros see that with every loan they sign they become indebted and -in a sense- slaves to the city of the freed slaves?

And clearly the FM are up to something with Jaqen/Pate in Oldtown, and the only thing stopping those highly trained assassins (with Arya soon becoming one of them) from using their skills at will is their commitment to their God of Many Faces.

So, what do you think the influence of Braavos on Westeros will be in the next book? Which direction will they lead the battle considering their purpose is to maximise profit?

[The Dragon has three heads]

The other question to ask, is are the FM and the IB seperate entities or work hand in glove?

And what was Jaqen, given his obvious power, even doing in the dungeons of KL? Unless he ment to be there?

And then, if an FM killed Balon, most likely this was also Jaqen. Unless there are more than one FM operating in Westeros and I don't think there are enough of them to go around.

[MMAJim]

Braavos, Pentos, its all ball bearings these days.

[Ser Coffee The Bold]

We know from Jon's POV that the Iron Bank holds more sway than any other bank in the world. I remember reading something about how when debtors default on other national banks they sell their stuff and their family members into slavery, and then commit suicide; but that when one defaults on the Iron Bank, another prince springs up to take their head.

This says something about how the Iron bank operates. Other banks want to be made as whole by their debtors as possible, but the Iron Bank wants to be made whole by their debtor or whoever they support to take over their debtor's principality.

I'm not sure they operate simpatico with the faceless men... although they can surely afford to hire a contract.

I think the Faceless men have a different agenda, but hold to a similar anti-slavery braavosi values.

[Lord Damian]

I would love to see if there is people/relatives of Syrio Florel that answer the call.

[andrew_]

I have a feeling Norvos will play a part in books to come. After all if Danny goes by land to Westeros she'll most likely pass through there, Doran Martell's wife lives there and his bodyguard warrior-priest Areo Hotah is from there as well. Maybe she'll get an army of warrior priests to join her which would be cool :cool4:

[Arya_Ghostface]

We can't know for sure whether the FM and the IB are the same, or somehow communicating, or one is serving the purposes of the other, but they both represent Braavos, and apparently work for the city's best interest, making it the most powerful of all the Free cities, and, as far as I remember, the one least involved in wars (plase correct me if I'm wrong). So, to my mind, it appears that Braavos, with its Bank and its assassins and its money, is becoming a kind of superpower that may be seeking to expand its control, or which maybe already has many lords of Westeros under its control.

The tactic of supporting a new lord to depose the one who defaulted on their debts is probably quite old, meaning they've probably already done it several times and the new ruler is indebted to the IB and likely to do their bidding.

So my question would be, can we speculate on what Braavos may be after in Westeros? What is there to take? What would their role be if Daenerys returns? What if Stannis dies and Jon is dead (I don't think he is dead, it's about time Mel proved her strength by reviving or saving him from dying)? Whow ill they support then?

My personal opinion (and it's just speculation of course) is that their motive is making as much money as possible, meaning they want to bring back stability to Westeros under a ruler of their making who will steadily pay back the debts to the IB, and in the meantime have someone from the IB in the king's court to influence the king's decisions in ways that are advantageous to Braavos.

As for the FM, I like to think they are a separate entity to the IB, but they are in some kind of alliance. So I think the presence of the FM in KL and Oldtown is for a different purpose which I can't begin to fathom, but if needed by the IB, someone will be on hand to present a gift to whoever needs to be out of the way. As for Balon, I really think that it was only a contract: Euron hired a FM to kill Balon and paid a price for it and that was it.

[The Bastard's Bastard]

Petyr Baelish is a faceless man for sure. His family comes from Braavos, he's good with coin and plotting and getting people killed.

BEWARE OF THE MOCKINGBIRD

[Arya_Ghostface]

His face is too visible for a faceless man, but his ease at procuring coin when needed that no other master of coin could achieve and his roots in Braavos could mean he, too is in league with the IB.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, he claims that he chose to change his house's sigil because he didn't like the Titan's head, but what if he just wanted to make his enemies forget his connection to Braavos?

I am quite fascinated by this city and its power and its long reaching, um, fingers... I really believe only the coming of the long night and the Others, or some other catastrophic event can stop them from dominating Westeros in all but name.

[armidil0]

If what hte Kindly Man says is true, then no one in the IB would hire FM because it would be half of what they value. And what they truly value they can't make back with just another loan.

[Patrick Tully]

Petyr Baelish is a faceless man for sure. His family comes from Braavos, he's good with coin and plotting and getting people killed.

No. He is too high profile and needs pawns to commit his assassinations for him. He is a schemer and we'll see he had his hands in more than we have seen thus far.

[The Bastard's Bastard]

No. He is too high profile and needs pawns to commit his assassinations for him. He is a schemer and we'll see he had his hands in more than we have seen thus far.

Yeh i wasn't being serious 'bout that :D

[Arya_Ghostface]

You know, sometimes it's difficult to tell who's being serious and who isn't, at least it's hard for me. I have seen crazy theories peddled as serious, and serious things being laughed at. It's confusing for people who have just joined :P

LF does have a connection to Braavos, and his ability to get money when no one else can while the kingdom is heavily indebted to the IB means he's got some means to convince them to lend more. It could be only his cunning, or it could be he has played their game up to a point, but maybe no more.

And if the IB and FM are in some sort of league, the IB would not have to pay for the murders, they would be steps towards the common cause, whatever that is.

[Tyryan Lannister]

If what hte Kindly Man says is true, then no one in the IB would hire FM because it would be half of what they value. And what they truly value they can't make back with just another loan.

Which begs the question of "where does all that money the FM get go?" Well, if the FM and IB are one and the same, then the IB gets the money that the FM take in, and the FM serve as the enforcers of the IB's rules and regulations vis-a-vis debts

[The Iron Suitor]

Which begs the question of "where does all that money the FM get go?" Well, if the FM and IB are one and the same, then the IB gets the money that the FM take in, and the FM serve as the enforcers of the IB's rules and regulations vis-a-vis debts

This makes the most sense to me. When you think about it where else could all of their payments go and the bank needs some form of protection.

[HouseBluth]

Maybe it's the skeptic in me, but I believe very little of the honor that the FM try to portray. They have to have some sort of political agenda, with or without IB influence.

[Veltigar]

LF does have a connection to Braavos, and his ability to get money when no one else can while the kingdom is heavily indebted to the IB means he's got some means to convince them to lend more. It could be only his cunning, or it could be he has played their game up to a point, but maybe no more.

I don't think LF is in cahoots with the Iron Bank. He's just the master of Pyramid games, the Westerosi equivalent of Bernie Madoff (or the present day Lan the clever if you like).

I do think that there's a connection between the IB and the FM, although I hope that that doesn't mean that the Kindly Man leaves the temple every tuesday to go to some board meeting (+ that would be a bit cliche I think, reminds me a bit about the work of Abercrombie).I think they just had to do something with their money and they probably decided to lend it out, as some sort of service to the city.

I don't think that this means that the IB get their murders for free. I mean think about it, the FM want to provide the gift to as many people as they can. Sadly, dead people aren't inclined to pay their loans back. This puts the FM and the IB on opposing sides of the spectrum.

If the theory about the grand FM conspiracy turns out to be true in the end than I would like to see the IB and the FM facing off. It would be a little bit like "the Last Samurai" (although we would root for the bankers in this case and dislike the Samurai). That would be thrilling to read :cool4:

[Nelapsi]

The other question to ask, is are the FM and the IB seperate entities or work hand in glove?

I feel stupid for never even suspecting such a thing lol

[Fire Eater]

The Iron Bank will back Stannis. Cersei has ceased repayment, Euron is a pirate, and Dany has dragons, which Braavosi have an deep set fear of. Stannis is the best option as he is known to be a prudent man, and they know he needs their support.

[Veltigar]

The Iron Bank will back Stannis. Cersei has ceased repayment, Euron is a pirate, and Dany has dragons, which Braavosi have an deep set fear of. Stannis is the best option as he is known to be a prudent man, and they know he needs their support.

They back up Stannis that's true, but the Bravosi aren't that affraid of dragons (they sided with Aegon against Volantis remember) + Dany has the whole I abolish slavery vibe to her. That's more important to the Bravosi.