The Rise of a New House?

[Lion of Judah]

So the magic-filled, fantasy based ASoIaF isn't going to end like the real life WotR? I guess we can agree there.

The larger point - not specifically directed at you, Lion of Judah - is that when a theory like the one up thread can connect Jon Snow to Henry Tudor in a few spots, it doesn't matter that there are some other spots where they don't perfectly match up. For example, it's more important that Jon (assuming Stark) and Henry claims both stem from legitimized bastardy than it is that the specifics are different. What if everything else matched up perfectly, but they wore different boots? - would be a good example, involving hyperbole. :)

Now, Lion of Judah, a question for you. Why do you rule out Jon Snow based on your previous point? Do you think he's near the top of the succession list for the IT? In my mind, if/when he ends up king, it will appear to many in the realm as though he came out of nowhere to sit the throne.

To be honest with you IF he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna then I think his claim would be at the top of the list, something that Tudor never had. BUT I do see your point of people in the game viewing him as a Tudor like figure, I wasn't looking at it from that aspect. So you do have a point I suppose.

[J. Stargaryen]

To be honest with you IF he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna then I think his claim would be at the top of the list, something that Tudor never had. BUT I do see your point of people in the game viewing him as a Tudor like figure, I wasn't looking at it from that aspect. So you do have a point I suppose.

Thank you. According to the theory mentioned up thread, Jon won't ascend the throne based on his Targaryen claim, but on his legitimized Stark claim. I do agree that if he can prove that he's Rhaegar's legitimate son he would have arguably the best claim to the throne. However, I'm not sure he'll be able to prove that R&L married.

BTW, my friend's wife's parents live in Bob Dylan's childhood home.

[Lion of Judah]

Thank you. According to the theory mentioned up thread, Jon won't ascend the throne based on his Targaryen claim, but on his legitimized Stark claim. I do agree that if he can prove that he's Rhaegar's legitimate son he would have arguably the best claim to the throne. However, I'm not sure he'll be able to prove that R&L married.

BTW, my friend's wife's parents live in Bob Dylan's childhood home.

I would pay for a tour of that house! I love the music my parents listened to when I was younger, I actually hated it in my high school years, but after I gave it a good listen I was blown away.

[J. Stargaryen]

I would pay for a tour of that house! I love the music my parents listened to when I was younger, I actually hated it in my high school years, but after I gave it a good listen I was blown away.

Even though I'm from the same area, I didn't get into Dylan until after high school either. He's amazing though. I'm a Beatles guy myself. Bobby Z., John, Paul, George and Ringo - it seems we both worship the Old Gods. :bowdown:

[ghost of Harrenhall]

it will be the westerlings on top, it is westeros after all. :)

[hombay]

Best thread I've seen in quite some time here on the forums. Fantastic stuff!

On topic - I don't see strict parallells between Lancaster and Lannister or York and Stark, or any other combination for that matter. In my opinion it seems more like GRRM has taken the key ingredients of the War of the Roses and then shuffles the deck so to say. That means that the 'Tudor' might come from the equivalent of York, and not Lancaster.

However, I may be completely wrong. My contenders for 'Tudor' are, with pros and cons:

Tarly. Vassals under Lannisters, strong leader but no claim on the throne

Jon Snow. The closest match to Henry himself, also has a very strong claim to the throne (both the North and the Iron Throne).

Edric Storm. Has a Baratheon claim to the throne, also an acknowledged bastard. Would be very close to a parallell of Henry Tudor.

Off-topic: Perkin Warbeck = Aegon "Targaryen".

EDIT: Added Edric Storm.

[Myrish Swamp Thing]

Jon Snow has a claim to jack south of the Neck. More specifically, he has a very strong claim but no one to acknowledge it, which makes it worthless.

[thegreatwhitebear]

If you want the MOST unlikely house, why not house seaworth? Absolutely no claim, and began by an onion smuggler. Hows that for completely crackpot lol

[The Chequered Raven]

Littlefinger.

But at his first ascend to the Throne, he stumbles over his own feet and falls with his head right into one of the swords...

[mcb]

Here's what troubles me the most in that hypothesis. One of the "outsider" wannabe kings of the Seven Kingdoms is Euron Crow-Eye. A Greyjoy.

I'm not saying the theory's crackpot. The opposite: it can be right, and it's scary.

[Darryk]

Surely if Jon is Rhaegar's son, he is actually heir to the Iron Throne whereas Henry Tudor was a distant claimant, so they're not really equivalents?

Except maybe in the sense that they both emerge out of nowhere to claim the throne after everyone else has pretty much destroyed each other.

Also, Henry Tudor needed to be legitimized first, right? Robb legitimizing Jon makes him heir to the north, but if Rhaegar and Lyanna weren't secretly married, he's still not legitimate in the eyes of the south, correct? What am I missing here?

[hombay]

Surely if Jon is Rhaegar's son, he is actually heir to the Iron Throne whereas Henry Tudor was a distant claimant, so they're not really equivalents?

Except maybe in the sense that they both emerge out of nowhere to claim the throne after everyone else has pretty much destroyed each other.

Also, Henry Tudor needed to be legitimized first, right? Robb legitimizing Jon makes him heir to the north, but if Rhaegar and Lyanna weren't secretly married, he's still not legitimate in the eyes of the south, correct? What am I missing here?

Lots of ifs - which comes down to the fact that we don't know jack. However, should R+L=J be true, and they were married, and there's proof of it, then he would have the strongest claim. He would also in a sense 'swoop in' to take the throne from the perspective of the commonfolk - not completely unlike Henry Tudor.

[Gauis Julius Caesar]

You're all wrong people! Obviously grrm is basing this off of the late roman republic, he's admitted he loves late republican Rome. Crazy Caligula is killed and his wife and infant daughter have there heads dashed against the wall! Lol. I'm kidding of course. In all seriousness the new house theory and war of roses has a lot of merit

[The Singer]

I'd be happy with a couple of new houses to rise, as long as they take the honors and lands of Frey and Bolton!

Tormund can have the dreadfort and Davos can have the twins.

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

The only family I can conceivably see gaining any sort of status is Davos' family.

[Quiet Isle]

Well if the other forum's crackpottery is right, it could be House Rayder, if Jon is Mance's son.

[Naathi Prince]

poor Maergery Tyrell, I hope the girl does actually get married to someone who isn't a douche and is also both willing and capable of doing their marital duty.

[Gauis Julius Caesar]

Well if the other forum's crackpottery is right, it could be House Rayder, if Jon is Mance's son.

Crackpottery sounds like some sort of pottery equivalent to grunge music, grunge pottery. I like it

[Winter's Prince]

Ser Bronn of House Blackwater, first of his name, King of the Andals and Rhyonar, Lord all the Kingdoms below the Neck and Protector of the Realm. And Rickon of House Stark, first of his name, King in the North and Winter and the First Men, Lord of Winterfell, and Protector of the Realm. Jon of House Nightstark, first of his name, founder of his House, 998th Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, Lord of Castle Black, and King beyond the Wall. So that's the way I see it, three kings.

[Ludd]

My personal preference is for King Mance folowed by King Jon but

I go for King Bronn. Actually I think he MAY have a real claim.