49 replies to this topic

[Roxy]

In a lot of discussions people mention how Ned supposedly had respect for Rhaegar. The evidence for this is usually the quote about him not thinking he used brothels (which isn't proof of his respect or regard no matter how much some might like it to be) and the lack of quotes describing Ned's distaste for him.

My question is, does Ned ever mention or think about hating Aerys (who we know for certain harmed the Starks) either? So far I can't find an instance, but maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

But if there aren't any places where he thinks or says he hates Aerys then this popular stance that Ned worships Rhaegar are pretty groundless. The lack of thoughts and active animosity might stem from Rhaegar and Aerys being dead and not going unpunished for their crimes the way others like the Lannisters and Jorah are.

Edited by Roxy, 07 February 2013 - 07:18 PM.

[Pod The Impaler]

Eddard was probably indifferent towards Rhaegar until after Lyanna got kidnapped (if she got kidnapped; if not he probably thought Rhaegar a fool). The realm in general thought Rhaegar held great promise, as the flipside to their increasing distaste for Aerys.

As for Aerys, if Eddard ever had a case of white-hot hatred, it was probably for Aerys after what happened to Brandon and Rickard. Remember he had contempt for Jaime as an oathbreaker (and arrogant besides that), but if Eddard had come through that door and Aerys had still been alive, I'd wager he'd have happily cut him down to avange his own kin. Probably not before making king Aerys squeal the location of Lyanna.

[Brienne Of Bombay]

After what Aerys did to his brother and father, I don't doubt Ned felt anything but hatred towards him. But he is long dead. And as you said, the Lannisters and Jorah were never tried for their crimes and hence his dislike.

[Southron_Ambitions]

Eddard was furious at Jamie because Eddard wanted to give Aerys the proper trial and execution that Aerys never gave Rickard or Brandon. That was who Eddard was.

[Lion of Judah]

Southron_Ambitions, on 08 February 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

Eddard was furious at Jamie because Eddard wanted to give Aerys the proper trial and execution that Aerys never gave Rickard or Brandon. That was who Eddard was.

True and he didn't appreciate the fact that the Lannisters joined the rebellion so late and decided the faith of the king and his family without consulting Robert. I always found it strange that Ned never seemed to buy into the notion that Rhaegar raped his sister, he seemed so indifferent to the idea that Rhaegar did that it makes you think maybe he didn't.

[A wilding]

Roxy, on 07 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

In a lot of discussions people mention how Ned supposedly had respect for Rhaegar. The evidence for this is usually the quote about him not thinking he used brothels (which isn't proof of his respect or regard no matter how much some might like it to be) and the lack of quotes describing Ned's distaste for him.

It is not just a lack of quotes though. In AGoT we have Robert ranting to Ned about Rhaegar and Ned conspicuously failing to join in. However dead Rhaegar might be, it feels odd that Ned did not say a single word of support and thanks to the friend who avenged Lyanna.

(It is also a little odd to think that a rapist would never visit a brothel.)

[King of Hats]

Roxy, on 07 February 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

popular stance that Ned worships Rhaegar are pretty groundless.

Popular stance that Ned worships Rhaegar????....calm down there

[Great White Walker]

Ned to robert...you were atleast better than aerys. he didnt like aerys at all.

[Frey family reunion]

I think Eddard's main animosity was for Aerys.  My guess is, though, he probably wasn't thrilled with the fact that Rhaegar impregnated his sister and hid her away, even if it wasn't technically a kidnapping.  Unlike Robert however, I don't think Eddard's animosity extended to anyone with a Targaryen last name.

[Fire Eater]

Ned felt no hate or anger towards Rhaegar after visiting the ToJ, since he did no harm to Ned's family, loved Ned's sister and he was the father of the nephew Ned raised like a son. Aerys definitely had Ned's loathing for killing his father and brother.

Edited by Fire Eater, 08 February 2013 - 10:33 AM.

[Frey family reunion]

Fire Eater, on 08 February 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Ned felt no hate or anger towards Rhaegar after visiting the ToJ, since he did no harm to Ned's family, loved Ned's sister and he was the father of the nephew Ned raised like a son. Aerys definitely had Ned's loathing for killing his father and brother.

I can't imagine that a brother wouldn't feel animosity for someone who impregnated his sister outside of marriage and had her hidden away from her family.

[Thendel]

Frey family reunion, on 08 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

I can't imagine that a brother wouldn't feel animosity for someone who impregnated his sister outside of marriage and had her hidden away from her family.

Bear in mind that according to R+L=J, Lyanna willingly hitched up with Rhaegar, and Ned, understanding and fiercely loving his willful sister, would be at least understanding of the reasons behind the eloping. He knew how Lyanna felt about being betrothed to Robert, and he couldn't have been surprised when he found that she ran away from that business to be with Rhaegar.

But yes, Ned wasn't entirely happy about Lyanna's willfulness: He called it the wolf's blood, and blamed it for her all-too early death. Considering that, Ned would actually be unfair to blame Rhaegar for the entire affair, and IMO, there was no way Rhaegar could have predicted how Lyanna running away with him could lead to a bloody civil war that would result in the death of his father, his wife and his children, and the exile of his younger siblings.

[Fire Eater]

Frey family reunion, on 08 February 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

I can't imagine that a brother wouldn't feel animosity for someone who impregnated his sister outside of marriage and had her hidden away from her family.

It wasn't outside of marriage.

[Mladen]

Pod The Impaler, on 08 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

As for Aerys, if Eddard ever had a case of white-hot hatred, it was probably for Aerys after what happened to Brandon and Rickard. Remember he had contempt for Jaime as an oathbreaker (and arrogant besides that), but if Eddard had come through that door and Aerys had still been alive, I'd wager he'd have happily cut him down to avange his own kin. Probably not before making king Aerys squeal the location of Lyanna.

I don`t believe in that. Ned was the guy who wanted Jaime taking black for killing Aerys, he didn`t want to pursue killing Dany, he never said a bad word for Rhaegar...Ned is above cruelties...those are Tywin`s ways, not Ned`s.

@FireEater, we don`t have proof they were married, possibly even the inchling of that...I mean, it`s possible, actually very possible, but entire idea of Rhaegar`s second marriage is repelled to me by `Jon becoming King` fans

Edited by Mladen, 08 February 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[Erudain]

KGs at ToJ say "hi fella"

[Where Boars Glow]

Pod The Impaler, on 08 February 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

Eddard was probably indifferent towards Rhaegar until after Lyanna got kidnapped (if she got kidnapped; if not he probably thought Rhaegar a fool). The realm in general thought Rhaegar held great promise, as the flipside to their increasing distaste for Aerys.

As for Aerys, if Eddard ever had a case of white-hot hatred, it was probably for Aerys after what happened to Brandon and Rickard. Remember he had contempt for Jaime as an oathbreaker (and arrogant besides that), but if Eddard had come through that door and Aerys had still been alive, I'd wager he'd have happily cut him down to avange his own kin. Probably not before making king Aerys squeal the location of Lyanna.

and when Ned Stark thinks you're a fool....well then that is saying something

[Mr Motte]

I'm pretty sure Ned hated Aerys, even if he wasn't too vocal about it.

With Rhaegar.... it depends on what he learned at the Tower of Joy.

[Where Boars Glow]

Thendel, on 08 February 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:

Bear in mind that according to R+L=J, Lyanna willingly hitched up with Rhaegar, and Ned, understanding and fiercely loving his willful sister, would be at least understanding of the reasons behind the eloping. He knew how Lyanna felt about being betrothed to Robert, and he couldn't have been surprised when he found that she ran away from that business to be with Rhaegar.

But yes, Ned wasn't entirely happy about Lyanna's willfulness: He called it the wolf's blood, and blamed it for her all-too early death. Considering that, Ned would actually be unfair to blame Rhaegar for the entire affair, and IMO, there was no way Rhaegar could have predicted how Lyanna running away with him could lead to a bloody civil war that would result in the death of his father, his wife and his children, and the exile of his younger siblings.

People often make this claim...I beleive R + L = J but i don't think that meant they were in love.

Rheagar was obcessed with bringing the PWP. He kidnapped Lyanna or more likely had it done. Then he Charlie Mansoned her into his weird plan....eventually she got into it and proclaimed to Ned on her deathbed Ned....it wasn't his fault...Rheagar is trying to save the world blah blah blah. What matters is that you save the boy. Promise me!

and he did.....that doesn't mean Ned liked, respected, worshiped Rheagar. It means he abbides. Thats how Ned rolls.

[Roxy]

A wilding, on 08 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

It is not just a lack of quotes though. In AGoT we have Robert ranting to Ned about Rhaegar and Ned conspicuously failing to join in. However dead Rhaegar might be, it feels odd that Ned did not say a single word of support and thanks to the friend who avenged Lyanna.

(It is also a little odd to think that a rapist would never visit a brothel.)

But Ned doesn't join in on the Aerys rants either. That's my point. The stance that Ned respected Rhaegar because he doesn't join rants about him doesn't hold water because he doesn't join anti-Aerys rants, though Aerys hurt his family even worse than Rhaegar.

Also, here's another quote where he thinks of Rhaegar:

Quote

Then Cersei would fall, and the Kingslayer with her, and if Lord Tywin dared to rouse the west, Robert would smash him as he had smashed Rhaegar Targaryen on the Trident.
-- AGOT

Linking Rhaegar with Tywin (who he despises) and deciding they deserve the same treatment would suggest that he doesn't respect or think well of Rhaegar -- even if he doesn't join rants about him.

Why is it odd that a rapist wouldn't visit a brothel? How is rape connected with paying for sex?

[thewingedwolf]

I do not doubt that Ned hated Aerys for what he did to his father and brother.  However I think he had, basically like everyone, a deal of respect for Rhaegar and he probably saw him as a worthy opponent.  I do believe that changed when Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna.  However I think that changed at the ToJ since I am a firm believer that Lyanna and Rhaegar were in love and that she wanted nothing to do with Robert (especially considering that Ned and Robert just had a fight at the sack of Kings Landing), may have raised Ned's perception of Rhaegar.