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So... we all know how this is going to end, right? (SPOILER ALERT)


King's Ruin

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That is the point, It is NOT safe to say. Fire and Ice can mean Jon Snow/Stark. It can mean the balance of those things and It can be just be a nice title to describe the Families of the important maincharacters: the Starks and the Targaryens.

Are you seriously suggesting that we won't get to see the DRAGONS setting fire to the WHITEWALKERS? Sure, something else COULD happen. But WHAT could possibly be cooler? And I think the Lannisters are as important as the Starks in Westeros (not as good, not as personal to the reader (debatable) I grant ye, but as important). Besides, the Targaryens stand apart big time.

The merits of the argument are these: what two forces in the GRRM world are the two most powerful by far? Dragons and Others. What two forces are the most distant, geographically? Dragons and Others. What are the two most unconnected narratives in terms of storyline? Dragons and Others. What two mythical creatures are people in denial about coming back into the world? Dragons and Others.

In these three ways you must surely agree there is no greater contrast of anywhere than between the worlds of The Wall and Slaver's Bay.

Yet despite their differences, they also share several connections (as all true opposites do): both Jon and Dany empitomise the character and nature of their respective houses (and as you say, Stark is probably ice & Targaryen is probably fire). They are both well on their way to becoming military commanders of formidable stature. And furthermore, Dragons are the closest thing around to invincible - oh, wait, except for The Others, the only other thing we can say would probably give the Dragons a run for their money.

What happens when two unstoppable forces collide? DRAGONS VS OTHERS. It will be carnage. And I am looking forward to it. Keep your balance, I'm for war me.

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Apart from the fact I did say 'amongst other things' i think it's pretty safe to say Fire and Ice DOES mean Dragons and Others. Fire melts Ice. The End. That is just the problem. As one guy put it so succinctley:

Yes, fire melts ice. Product of melting ice is water, and water distinguishes fire...There are subtle metaphors throughout ASOIAF...

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A Song of Ice and Fire doesn't necessarily translate to something something fire vs. ice something something. The references to ice and fire are so plentiful in this series that the final punch could be so many different things. GRRM has said that it isn't his style to have a storyline where one specific event is destined to happen. Such a destined event in this case would obviously be the dragons vs. the others? So maybe, just maybe this would be to obvious for GRRM. I think he might have something twisty in line for the readers.

I think if the dragon's were to square off against the others it would be too easy of a win. The logistics are simple: fly over them and burn them all. Since it takes dragon glass to kill the Others I'd say its safe to say a fire breathing dragon will do the trick, considering one needs a dragon before one can acquire dragon glass... How would the Others counter?

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Yet despite their differences, they also share several connections (as all true opposites do): both Jon and Dany empitomise the character and nature of their respective houses (and as you say, Stark is probably ice & Targaryen is probably fire). They are both well on their way to becoming military commanders of formidable stature. And furthermore, Dragons are the closest thing around to invincible - oh, wait, except for The Others, the only other thing we can say would probably give the Dragons a run for their money.

My prediction is that Jon Snow will be reborn as part White Walker and Part Red Rhollar, which will make him AA. (yes I subscribe to the R+L=J theory) From the point he is re-raised or unjon whatever you want to call him he will be a combination of the ICE & FIRE, ie: his lineage makes him the perfect person for this. (remember his dream where he's armored in ice and fighting with a flaming sword!!!) At the same time I think Aegon will begin to win certain victories throughout the 7 kingdoms only coming to a standstill against a currently unknown enemy. I then believe after some fighting and gathering men and taming the dragons, Dany will head to Westoros and Marry Aegon and fight by his side. Later giving him children. (yes I know they said she's barren but in ADWD she starts to get her moon blood for the 1st time since khal Drogo died) I believe the flight of the dragon healed her. Aegon and Dany will win the 7 Kingdoms and come to aid Jon their brother/nephew on the wall and leave him with a dragon. And as Dany is delivering the last targareyn baby she will die.

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'Ice and fire' could also be referring to Jon.

I believe it is referring to jon. And the other people just remember GRRM has included the phrase "if fire can burn so can ice multiple times. GRRM doesn't add things like that lightly.

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My prediction is that Jon Snow will be reborn as part White Walker and Part Red Rhollar, which will make him AA. (yes I subscribe to the R+L=J theory) From the point he is re-raised or unjon whatever you want to call him he will be a combination of the ICE & FIRE, ie: his lineage makes him the perfect person for this. (remember his dream where he's armored in ice and fighting with a flaming sword!!!) At the same time I think Aegon will begin to win certain victories throughout the 7 kingdoms only coming to a standstill against a currently unknown enemy. I then believe after some fighting and gathering men and taming the dragons, Dany will head to Westoros and Marry Aegon and fight by his side. Later giving him children. (yes I know they said she's barren but in ADWD she starts to get her moon blood for the 1st time since khal Drogo died) I believe the flight of the dragon healed her. Aegon and Dany will win the 7 Kingdoms and come to aid Jon their brother/nephew on the wall and leave him with a dragon. And as Dany is delivering the last targareyn baby she will die.

This would take so many books.

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If you want to dance, okay.

Are you seriously suggesting that we won't get to see the DRAGONS setting fire to the WHITEWALKERS? Sure, something else COULD happen. But WHAT could possibly be cooler? And I think the Lannisters are as important as the Starks in Westeros (not as good, not as personal to the reader (debatable) I grant ye, but as important). Besides, the Targaryens stand apart big time.

Yes I do suggest that we might not get the "Übercool" moment of three young dragons who are kept down on the ground by rain fighting a force that brings the cold and winter with them. Cooler would be a real fight, not some magical "oh look dragons, they are sooooo awesome" moment. The Lannisters might be important in Westeros, but they are about to fall. And why do the Targs stand apart?

The merits of the argument are these: what two forces in the GRRM world are the two most powerful by far? Dragons and Others.

Seriously? three young Dragons that can be kept down by rain are definetely NOT one of the two most powerful forces. And we also have no clue how powerful the Others really are.

What two forces are the most distant, geographically? Dragons and Others. What are the two most unconnected narratives in terms of storyline? Dragons and Others. What two mythical creatures are people in denial about coming back into the world? Dragons and Others.

The Others and whoever lives in southern Sothoryos :P So? Just because they are unconnected they have to clash? The only people who know about the Others are the Wildlings and the Night´s Watch, the rest of the Realm pretty much says "lol you northerners are sooo crazy…now duck off". Same with the Dragons, rumors start to pop up in Westeros but they are mostly saying "yeahhh right!" to them.
In these three ways you must surely agree there is no greater contrast of anywhere than between the worlds of The Wall and Slaver's Bay.
So? they are pretty different but not because of this stuff you mentioned. The one is a place where shit is about to go down and is missing its leader at the moment ;)
Yet despite their differences, they also share several connections (as all true opposites do): both Jon and Dany empitomise the character and nature of their respective houses (and as you say, Stark is probably ice & Targaryen is probably fire). They are both well on their way to becoming military commanders of formidable stature. And furthermore, Dragons are the closest thing around to invincible - oh, wait, except for The Others, the only other thing we can say would probably give the Dragons a run for their money. What happens when two unstoppable forces collide? DRAGONS VS OTHERS. It will be carnage. And I am looking forward to it. Keep your balance, I'm for war me.
I won´t comment on the Jon and Dany Stuff because I am biased (I think Dany is overrated). But seriously, Dragons and Invincible? check your history of Westeros again, they were killed by humans and they can kill each other, and guess who got killed by Sam the Slayer, yep an Other. That doesn´t sound invincible to me. I will keep my balance, but you should better not weep if your war will be nothing more than a dream of Spring ;)
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Are you seriously suggesting that we won't get to see the DRAGONS setting fire to the WHITEWALKERS? Sure, something else COULD happen. But WHAT could possibly be cooler? And I think the Lannisters are as important as the Starks in Westeros (not as good, not as personal to the reader (debatable) I grant ye, but as important). Besides, the Targaryens stand apart big time.

The merits of the argument are these: what two forces in the GRRM world are the two most powerful by far? Dragons and Others. What two forces are the most distant, geographically? Dragons and Others. What are the two most unconnected narratives in terms of storyline? Dragons and Others. What two mythical creatures are people in denial about coming back into the world? Dragons and Others.

In these three ways you must surely agree there is no greater contrast of anywhere than between the worlds of The Wall and Slaver's Bay.

Yet despite their differences, they also share several connections (as all true opposites do): both Jon and Dany empitomise the character and nature of their respective houses (and as you say, Stark is probably ice & Targaryen is probably fire). They are both well on their way to becoming military commanders of formidable stature. And furthermore, Dragons are the closest thing around to invincible - oh, wait, except for The Others, the only other thing we can say would probably give the Dragons a run for their money.

What happens when two unstoppable forces collide? DRAGONS VS OTHERS. It will be carnage. And I am looking forward to it. Keep your balance, I'm for war me.

Yes, this is exactly what you would completely expect to happen. Which is probably why GRRM won't write it ;)

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My prediction is that Jon Snow will be reborn as part White Walker and Part Red Rhollar, which will make him AA.

By now I'm a little weary of people dying and then not actually being dead after all. I'd just like Jon to crawl to his room bloodied and wounded and then be nursed back to his health in secret, possibly by a wilding. Then he slips past the Night's Watch unnoticed and goes to Winterfell, still injured, and forced to recover in the freezing winter.

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I think if this series has shown us anything it's that both extremes are bad. If this comes down to Ice vs. Fire (Others vs. Dragons, etc.) then Westeros is screwed no matter which side wins. Success lies in finding the balance.

Also, the song of ice and fire is the song of Jon Snow. :)

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I think it’s more likely that the battle with the Others will be an entirely Northern affair with the North repelling the Others. The final showdown will be between the Northern Kingdoms (North, Riverlands, and Vale) and the reunited South under Dany.

Stannis wins the battle of Winterfell, and the Boltons and Freys are pushed from the North. I think Rickon returns, and the North rallies around him. Manderly and the other Northern Lords are willing to throw weight behind Stannis and his claim to the Iron Throne, but little Rickon is young, angry, and has grown increasingly feral in his time away. (I also think he will have a small pack of “wildling-ish” individuals from Skagos as his advisors/kingsguard.) Rickon’s young wild eyes will only see Stannis as another false King from the south seeking the Iron Throne, the same throne which killed his father and has ruined House Stark since before he was born.

If there is one prediction I truly believe, it’s that Stannis will die (he can’t win the thrown, but he also will never relent in pursuing it), and tiny Rickon will order it in a childish temper tantrum. The North will still rally around Rickon, and may even agree with his killing Stannis. After all, Robb didn’t declare for him. Fuck the South all that comes with it.

Jon will probably be a little scared of the prospect of Rickon as King in the North after this, but will still be able to convince Rickon/his handlers to use the reunited North to defend the wall. Which they will.

I also think Sansa, with or without Littlefinger, will be able to get little Robert and the Vale to march North as well.

In the South, Tommen will die. Lannisters are pretty much screwed at that point. Tyrell’s will want to make a play for the throne but wish to do it legitimately. Ideally, Doran Martell would have liked an alliance with Dany, or maybe even Aegon, but after the Dragon scorched his boy, I doubt that happens easily. Instead, Doran Martell agrees to essentially deliver Myrcella to King’s Landing to Rule as Queen/regent or something. The whole council will remain Tyrells, and Mace effectively controls the IT. In exchange, Tyrell and Martell unite to destroy the Lannisters once and for all. They also fight Aegon in the stormlands.

Finally Dany arrives with her host, threatening to strike Sunspear first. Doran is not an idiot. Seeing the Dragons, he gives Dany his support and abandons Myrcela as leader and orders his son to leaves King's Landing and get back to Dorne. Tryion has cut a deal with Dany as well, and returns to Casterly Rock. Nearly destroyed by the Tyrell’s, the Rock region has no choice but to accept Tryion and Dany’s plan. Tryion becomes Warden of the West, Lord of Casterly Rock, and the Lannister host is ironically back under the control of the Targs.

Dany gives the Tyrell’s an ultimatum. Join or be 100% destroyed. Mace seriously considered yielding the Throne to Dany and kneeling to the dragons, but The Tyrells have a huge Host, even bigger than the Lannisters/Dorne/Aegon/Dany combined. Plus they control the Iron Throne. Plus the Dragons are not fully developed yet, nor proven in combat. They gamble and fight, but are slowly, but soundly beaten by the Dragons. Eventually, they scatter their forces, adopting the tactics of Dorne/brotherhood without banners. The Reach is a major pain in Dany’s ass using these tactics. Dany finally has her dragons LEVEL Oldtown and Hightower. Like Hiroshima wipe out. Like the Japanese, Tyrell’s order their banners to end the resistance. Mace and his whole family is executed by Dany.

Then the Last book is the liberation of the Riverlands from the Frey’s, and a final showdown as Dany’s remaining and battered host moves north to fight The Vale/North’s battered forces. Somehow, this is where Jon Snow shows his value. (I say he's alive. Like alive-alive.) I am guessing that the Dragons cook him, but like Dany, he only loses his hair and clothes. Maybe even Ghost survives the dragon fire. I dunno. Jon just does some cool shit.

Not saying the North will win, but Jon’s actions may end the battle somehow. And Dany recognizes him as a fellow Dragon and perhaps parlays with Jon and spares the North. Maybe the kingdom is split in two.

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OP: This was my theory as well, before I connected the dots to R+L=J, did some Googling, and found this lovely website!

I'm still of the opinion that the dragons and the Others will get to have a playdate before the books end. The Dragons are the perfect solution to the others. I mean, realistically, I think that even if Jon or some other character is AA, how is he and an army going to take out the Others entirely from what we've seen with the NW coming into contact with them?

After reading more, thinking on it more, discussing it on here, I'm pretty sure the Ice and Fire GRRM was alluding to is either Jon Snow himself, or his relationship in regards to Daenerys. There's just too much foreshadowing to ignore it, for me.

I'm not convinced that AA and PTWP are the same person.

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