Fire Eater Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 We learn from Jon Snow that Mors Umber's daughter was kidnapped by wildlings thirty years ago.My theory is that she was Val and Dalla's mother. I'd expect Dalla to be in her twenties, and Crowfood's daughter was in her teens when she was kidnapped, thirty years is plenty of time for her to have given birth to Dalla and later Val.Here are a few quotes:a description of Val's wardrobe from ADwD: white bearskin cloak and she rode a garron with one blind white eyeFrom TWoW Theon: He had been seated on a garron, clad in the pelt of a gigantic snow bear, its head his hood. Under it he wore a stained white leather eye patch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 This is quite interesting, but would it be relevant to the story in any way? I don't think it would make an impact at all really. But something cool to think about and speculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think that Crowfood's daughter was carried off by Tormund the Giantsbane. Her children are: Toregg the Tall, Torwyn the Tame, Munda and Dryn, Crackpot I know but still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I think Tormund is more likely to have had the occasional fling with Maege Mormont...I agree that Val and Dalla seem curiously high-born in their nurturing. 'Mylord', not 'm'lord' and all that. It certainly makes sense to assume they have some relatives south of the Wall - and yes, Crowfood's daughter might be a good connection there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 :agree: - I too lean towards a Tormund / Maege connection, more so than Crowfood's daughter.Nice catch, Fire Eater. Knowing GRRM's habits, a subtle parallel like this shouldn't be dismissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Sprungfeld Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 :agree: - I too lean towards a Tormund / Maege connection, more so than Crowfood's daughter.Nice catch, Fire Eater. Knowing GRRM's habits, a subtle parallel like this shouldn't be dismissed.I subscribe to both theories. This is Tormund, I don't see how those are mutually exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Mac Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Interesting theory. Possible, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zupoleon Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I subscribe to both theories. This is Tormund, I don't see how those are mutually exclusive.Agree, they don't have to be, but trying to marry that with Fire Eater's theory would make Val and Dalla Tormund's daughters, which, unless I missed something, they're not.Since I'm entertaining the op's theory, Tormund couldn't have done both... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bemused Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Tormund ( when joking that Toregg maybe better stay away from Val , after all ) says he has one daughter ( that's Munda), he doesn't need another. Of course , that doesn't rule out that Val could have Umber heritage , however, I always want to say , "Not so hasty, there" when it's automatically assumed that being well spoken must be a sign of having a non-wildling parent.If Val and Dalla turn out to be priestesses or seers, it might be a sign of education , not blood. ( If GRRM is using a Norse or Celtic model , such an education could be lengthy and varied ).On a side note , do we actually have a physical description of Dalla ? I don't think we do..at least not very detailed, apart from her being heavy with child ... but we've quite a few of Val. ...Dalla and Val may not even be blood relations , but sisters in a spiritual or professional sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
True_lord_of_york Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 And timett son of timett is actually the true heir of the vale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Daemon Blackfyre Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 And timett son of timett is actually the true heir of the valeHe's a bastard though (I doubt the offspring of forced wildling 'marriages', i.e. kidnap and rape, are recognised as legitimate in the Seven Kingdoms). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Eater Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 He's a bastard though (I doubt the offspring of forced wildling 'marriages', i.e. kidnap and rape, are recognised as legitimate in the Seven Kingdoms).What if the mountain clans follow the Old Gods and married her before a heart tree? The names of their clans could have been their sigils, and they were driven from the Vale because they refused to forsake the Old Gods for the Seven and take the Arryns as their kings.Back to the main topic, what do you think of the fate of Crowfood's daughter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I'm not sure about this. I think if the wildings do make some sort of alliance with the North the Umbers will want an account of what happened to this girl. So we will probaly find out in the next book. I think her being one of Tormunds wives seems the most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frost Wolf Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 What if the mountain clans follow the Old Gods and married her before a heart tree? The names of their clans could have been their sigils, and they were driven from the Vale because they refused to forsake the Old Gods for the Seven and take the Arryns as their kings.Back to the main topic, what do you think of the fate of Crowfood's daughter?I like that theory, that the mountain clans refused to convert to the Seven. Very logical.Most likely she is dead and Crowsfood won't ever see his daughter again. Seems the most likely thing to happen, although if this were a perfect disney world she would be reunited with her father and tell him she was happy in her marriage and her daughters were the wives to kings, lovey-dovey crap, etc, etc.Boy, has that ship sailed on this series :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 When Sansa tells Chella that she wants to go to the Godswood Chella replies that, "....Pray here,the gods will hear." Not your gods she says the gods. Not a confirmation but its close. It seems possible that the Burned Men might have a religion based more on R'hollorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Targaryen Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I subscribe to the theory that Tormund stole the girl, and at least Toregg is her son. That would explain why Toregg is so much taller than his father. If Munda is her daugther, too, she might look like her mother. When/if Mors and Tormund's people meet, Mors may recognise Munda, and it may help the Umbers to accept the wildlings more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 I subscribe to the theory that Tormund stole the girl, and at least Toregg is her son. That would explain why Toregg is so much taller than his father. If Munda is her daugther, too, she might look like her mother. When/if Mors and Tormund's people meet, Mors may recognise Munda, and it may help the Umbers to accept the wildlings more.Mors will behead Tormund's fat head more like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Targaryen Posted February 10, 2013 Share Posted February 10, 2013 Mors will behead Tormund's fat head more likeNot if Mors meets Munda first, and learns that Tormund married her, and her mother was happy with him. (We obviously don't know if that was what really happened but I hope it was... :drool: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordBloodraven Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Not if Mors meets Munda first, and learns that Tormund married her, and her mother was happy with him. (We obviously don't know if that was what really happened but I hope it was... :drool: )If Munda's mother was Mors's daughter, I doubt she was happy being carried off and living beyond the Wall while her father and cousins were on the other side, grieving for her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Daemon Blackfyre Posted February 11, 2013 Share Posted February 11, 2013 Back to the main topic, what do you think of the fate of Crowfood's daughter?Yeah I definitely think its plausible that she was Val and Dalla's mother. If its true, Val could eventually even be a bridge to forge peace between the Umbers and wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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