Jump to content

The Daylight War - Spoilers!


Cause

Recommended Posts

Does it? It doesn't take a genius to realise that they can try to increase the population by making sure that women don't fight.

I don't know if it would be the reason. However, assuming it was. Kaji, with a much larger population, forbade women to fight. Jardir cites a declining population as the reason he has no choice but to allow women to fight. I feel like it would undermine itself.

I like how the final step to becoming a feared and respected Dama'ting is to get a giant fat dildo stuffed in your bunghole.

Yeah, that was one of the more groan-worthy scenes. And of course it was followed by renewed virginity. Then, still later, Inevera being completely overwhelmed by a virgin Jardir. Kvothe/Felurian all over again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Justin from Staffer's Blog reviewed the book.

All told Daylight War is excellent epic fantasy–one of the most compelling in recent memory–albeit no longer as successful at discussing the esoteric ideas of Warded Man. However, as it drew to a close on the final page, he asks a question of his reader. What will a man do when confronted with an impossible choice? That question manifests as a massive cliffhanger, something many will find inexcusable. For me it’s quite the opposite. It’s a promise that Peter V. Brett is finding his way back to the crux of the questions he began with in The Warded Man. If he chooses to continue down that path, the Demon Cycle will be long remembered.

The Daylight War is getting quite strong reviews from the blogosphere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The pacing seems to be fairly brisk, the plot is moving,

No, this thread is about The Daylight War, by Peter V. Brett. I don't know what book you are reading, but it's very clearly not that one.

I mean, unless you consider Crossroads of Twilight to be brisk and plot-moving as well.

As I said elsewhere:

What Brett has done with The Daylight War has created an epic fantasy novel in which almost nothing happens, but he's chucked in a few explosions and fights to appease to the undiscerning masses, and it appears to have worked for him.

Sweet fuck-all happens in this novel to advance the plot. Fact. You can get away with that if your primary goal is characterisation, beautiful prose or achieving some kind of thematic goal. But you can't if you are writing a plot-driven, epic fantasy with fairly blank prose and basic characterisation, like Brett does. You need stuff to happen. And when it doesn't, you have failed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I give it 3 stars. The treatment of women is ... well, he has lots of women characters who are strong, but the Krasian women and Leesha are insanely sexualized. Like, Leesha's whole story in this book is about banging one guy or another. In the first two she might have been raped and almost-raped, but at least she was also a badass Warder and healer and maker of explosives. Here she has sex with various men and laments not having sex with at least two others (I'm including Gared here since tries to do him, even though he isn't her first, second, or third choice beau) and delegates her other roles. The Krasians and Arlen are better healers, she wards nothing but a couple pieces of armor for Wonda and Gared, and she lets Darsy handle the fire.

Inevera... well she uses sex as a tool, but at least she owns it. As for the rest of the Krasian women, I won't even get into the craziness of training all of your holy, powerful women in the literal same way they train their harem girls.

Leaving the hillbilly speech aside, Arlen and Renna were bright points (although again Brett makes a point to keep Renna dressed like a slut at all times). The growth of Arlen's power (along with Renna's and Jardir's) was interesting and felt natural. The battles against the stronger mind demons were interesting, and the demons felt like a legitimate threat even to Arlen.

The plotting was slow, but it didn't feel like it dragged in any particular section for me. The road chapters were long but Brett wisely chose to have most of them be from Rojer's POV, which I have always found entertaining. I liked the addition of his wives and I liked that he basically told Leesha to mind her own business and let him make his own decisions. But I hated the ending, it felt rushed and cheap. Given that Arlen can dematerialize at will, it made no sense to me that Jardir would be able to strike him more than once. Especially since Arlen can solidify different parts of his body - so the fight was dumbed down to give Jardir a chance, which I don't like. The cliffhanger was cheap, but I'll admit to being interested where it's headed.

If you improved the pace a bit, killed Leesha :P, and made the ending less rushed and forced, it'd be a pretty good book. As is, it was enjoyable with some elements best ignored. I'll still buy book 4 :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I, for one, look forward to the rape that will surely occur in the next book (possibly the fifth if book four covers as little time as this one did).

Yeah, that's when Arlen goes to the core and rapes the demon queen to imprint on her eggs. She's practically begging for it. I don't think you can even call it rape.

>_>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I ended up enjoying this book, and I went into it just wanting to finish the series, since I loathed the second book. I also found the hill-billy speak enraging. The lack of over-arching plot movement didn't bother me. In fact, I hadn't realized it until pointed out. Mainly because, I'm not really certain where the books are meant to be heading? With Wheel of Time or ASoIaF, you know where the series is supposed to be going, and the fact that it's not gotten there. With this series, there hasn't really been any established myth-arc for how they're supposed to take down the demons. Long, grueling war? Giant final battle? Invading the Core?

Could have done with more fighting, rather than whatever it was filled with. Also, I'm 99% the author has some sort of polygamist fetish or fantasy, or something.

I'd forgotten nearly everything about everyone involved, and the backstory and terminology, so perhaps that aided in my lack of boredom? A good part of the novel was spent trying to figure out what all the terms meant, and who was who.

It was definitely a 3/5 book for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I, for one, look forward to the rape that will surely occur in the next book (possibly the fifth if book four covers as little time as this one did).

Yeah, that's when Arlen goes to the core and rapes the demon queen to imprint on her eggs. She's practically begging for it. I don't think you can even call it rape.

>_>

Golly, I ent evah tried rapin one o them Demon Queens before!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oddly, the hillbilly speak didn't bother me a whit, though I shared Adam/Werthead's general dislike for the novel and its slow pace.

Really, though, here's how it makes sense. Jardir, despite everything we've learned from hearing a zillion stories over the years, is actually dead. Book 4 will be about Inevera's attempt to establish and assert her power in the Krasian power struggle in the aftermath of Jardir's death. This will involve the attack on Lakton's grain resources, led by Jardir's son (the one who likes to kill people and not demons). Inevera will of course succeed, and then will have to struggle to attain some sort of modus vivendi or alliance or union or whatever with Tribe Arlen, since he's the sole remaining Deliverer candidate. That includes convincing him of the power of Kaji's artifacts. It's possible Brett develops the idea that Arlen by eating demon flesh is starting to become more like one of the demon princes-the Consort chapters certainly raise this possibility. Since of course Arlen and Inevera therefore need to get married and Arlen's already married in a culture of single marriage, that means Renna has to die. That'll probably happen saving Arlen from the Core, with Inevera's help in some manner, and be why Arlen recognizes the need to take advantage of Kaji's artifacts.

Also, why didn't Inevera check what was going to happen in the duel? Obviously she would have, so Brett's just didn't tell us. In that case, she may have known Jardir was going to die (assuming by crazy theory is wrong).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm of the opinion he planned the whole thing fake his and Jardir's death (Messiah Arlen might be able to heal him still) so they can surprise the demons. Take the fight secretly to the core while buying humanity time. Only reason to end the book at that point it seems to me. Anyone have any other opinions?

That's my thought as well. Jardir dying just doesn't make sense to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Civilian Reader reviewed TDW:

Should you read The Daylight War? Absolutely.

The Demon Cycle is everything an expansive epic fantasy should be: immersive, utterly addictive, and extremely good. Carve out a lot of time to read this – you won’t want to put it down.

This is a must read series.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Civilian Reader reviewed TDW:

I think you'll find the overwhelming opinion on the book is positive. I'm not sure if Brett refused to give Wert an interview, or what, but he's sure got a hard on for knocking this book.

/A LOT/ of shit happened in this book. A lot. Marriages, preparations for battle, fleshing out backstory, a main character gets knocked up, wisdom is passed down to the masses, world building occurs, we get a demon POV, fuck, one of the main characters dies! How the hell can you say nothing happens in this book (and give it a low rating) and yet extol the virtues of a piece of shit like AMoL? Just because what you wanted to happen didn't, doesn't mean the book was devoid of action or plot movement.

I'll leave it with Mark's Review, I like it the most:

There are almost no authors I wait on. George Martin is one, Peter Brett another. I'm hooked on these books. They're the fun, exciting, imaginative fantasy I used to love way back in the 80s, but written for the new milenium with all the additional sharpness and insights that entails.

Brett combines a wonderful idea - the particular combination of 'bad guys' and magic that drives the series - with great characterisation across a broad cast.

To deliver literary punches, to write scenes where we care who lives and who dies, takes time. Time to wind up for the blow. Time to put lives behind those name-tags, time to make the solutions to problems meaningful rather than arbitrary. Fortunately it's time well spent. I found the Inervera back-story absorbing both in its own right and for the second perspective it offered on events in Desert Spear. I am not a person who believes there's a 'now' in storyland and that unless we're moving the plot forward in the 'now' then nothing is happening. If the story of Inervera's initiation into the disciplines of her craft is well told (and it was) that's as interesting to me as the 'now' at Cutters' Hollow and the coming attacks. I don't see one as more valid and important as the other.

It is true that the timeline doesn't advance a great many days past the point reached in Desert Spear. However an enormous amount is learned in that space of days, a hell of a lot of stuff blows up, ichor and blood splatter the page, and a good time is had by all... kinda. Well, by this reader at the very least.

So, yes, The Daylight War delivered like a... deliverer. I got my new information, I got my development of the demon world and the daylight world. I got my fix of the main cast and a collection of new faces. I got my mass battles, touching moments, tension, fun... I'm a happy camper. Just need the next book now.

(less)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I, for one, look forward to the rape that will surely occur in the next book (possibly the fifth if book four covers as little time as this one did).

Yeah, that's when Arlen goes to the core and rapes the demon queen to imprint on her eggs. She's practically begging for it. I don't think you can even call it rape.

>_>

But surely in cases of legitimate demon queen rape, her body could naturally reject the imprint on the eggs?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you'll find the overwhelming opinion on the book is positive. I'm not sure if Brett refused to give Wert an interview, or what, but he's sure got a hard on for knocking this book.

I don't do interviews with authors for this reason. Seeing people make nice with writers and then slag off their next book feels dishonest to me, and it's not something I indulge in. I also didn't completely slate the book. It got a low score but not a zero, meaning there was a fuckton wrong with it, but it also did a few things well (like the magic system and some reasonably well-executed battles). It's not as bad as, say a Kevin J. Anderson or Terry Goodkind novel. It's better than anything written by Robert Newcombe. So it has that going for it.

As for overwhelming opinion, that's a bit of an exaggeration. There's a lot of negative reviews on Amazon (where I have the highest-rated review for the book, showing that a lot of people agree with me). Pornokitsch slated the book worse than I did. Not just this volume but the entire series has has been ripped on for its gender politics and its ludicrous over-use of rape (which The Daylight War tries to resolve, somewhat clumsily, by turning the female characters from rape-victims into willing prostitues; not sure if this is an improvement). TVTropes even notes the series for its somewhat dubious use of Rape-As-Drama.

/A LOT/ of shit happened in this book.

No, it did not, and it just makes you look silly when you start slamming your caps lock on because you think it gives added credence to your comments.

A lot. Marriages, preparations for battle, fleshing out backstory, a main character gets knocked up, wisdom is passed down to the masses, world building occurs, we get a demon POV, fuck, one of the main characters dies!

Uh-huh. So nothing happens. Marriages are only important if they have some kind of grand consequence later on (like almost any wedding in ASoIaF). Arlen and whatsherface's wedding is either irrelevant or there for added pathos if she gets killed off later on. Preparations for battle are great, but not when they go on for 800 pages, and then the battle unfolds pretty much as we expected (the good guys win but at a cost). 'Wisdom is passed down to the masses'? WTF? There is also no added worldbuilding to what we knew beforehand (unless you mean that learning that "the major fake Muslim woman character used a dildo and then magically regrew her hymens afterwards as part of her graduation" is vital backstory knowledge). The demon POV is probably the single biggest step forwards in knowing the parameters of the conflict since the start of Book 1, but it makes up about 0.5% of the book at best.

As for one of the main characters dying, that is not confirmed. He could have shattered every bone in his body and might live along enough for someone to use magic to heal him. Until the next book comes out, he's as dead as the main character who 'dies' at the end of ADWD. If Brett actually has killed him off, that'd be pretty bold.

How the hell can you say nothing happens in this book (and give it a low rating) and yet extol the virtues of a piece of shit like AMoL?

Because AMoL resolves a metric ton of plot threads in a satisfying and mostly coherent manner (others, less so). Sure, people may be weeping into their keyboards that Random Aes Sedai Who Appeared For Seven Seconds Eight Books Ago is not given a goodbye scene, but that's not really important. The book was not perfect (there's a whole ton of little niggles which individually are irrelevant, but together show serious editing and space problems), but it was sure as hell better-plotted than The Daylight War. At least things happened and the action scenes (though somewhat overdrawn-out) contributed to the narrative and the conclusion.

Just because what you wanted to happen didn't, doesn't mean the book was devoid of action or plot movement.

Oh, the book isn't devoid of action. Brett knows he has to throw in a demon fight every 200 pages or so to keep the popcorn-munchers happy, and does that reasonably well. Precious little of those action scenes contribute anything to the overall narrative, however. The really big fight at the end is important in that it shows how screwed humanity is in the long run (humanity arguably doesn't have the resources to keep up that level of defence every single month), which contributes something, and the Arlen/Jardir fight is obviously important (though the full impact will not be felt until the next volume), but beyond that most of the action scenes are just there for the sheer hell of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's a lot of negative reviews on Amazon (where I have the highest-rated review for the book, showing that a lot of people agree with me)

Not on Amazon UK. Perhaps British people enjoyed the book more than American readers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you'll find the overwhelming opinion on the book is positive. I'm not sure if Brett refused to give Wert an interview, or what, but he's sure got a hard on for knocking this book.

I just wanted to say that I think it's pretty fucked up of you to question Wert's integrity just because you have different opinions about a couple of books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tend to agree with both camps, as I commented on Mark's goodreads review. I don't think the book is as bad as Wert claims - I dont see why we can't count marriages and other character-growing moments as plot movement, for example, especially since Renna is still being established as a major character and this was a big thing to her - but at the same time the ridiculous sexual stuff definitely takes away from the book.

There are also other inconsistencies - for example, Jardir only began to grow in personal strength once he actually warded his skin in TDS, but here he draws all of his magical strength from Kaji's weapons. Also, in TWM, Arlen is nearly killed when his wards get splashed in mud, and in another scene is able to disable a ward simply by putting his foot over it. Yet this isn't happening anymore - there's no mention of damaged or obscured wards on armor or skin lowering their effectiveness. The demon prince could beat Jardir by throwing a gob of mud onto the Crown, for instance, based on the magical logic from TWM.

(Don't get me wrong, I think it makes more sense this way, but at some point you start to drag up a whole bunch of fundamental issues with symbol-based magic.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...