Saci Targaryen Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 First I would like to begin by saying that I have been a long time fan of Kat Bigelow since her 1991 Point Break,which still is one of my favorite movies. Her 2009 Hurt Locker is probably the best psycho thriller about war ever filmed since the original Apocalypse Now,and I was really happy for her after she won the Oscar over that piece of broken script called Avatar(probably the worst movie I ever so).However, her new movie Zero Dark Thirty,a script given to her by the CIA, and financed by the jewish-american Hollywood lobby, reminds me a lot of one of those fascist propaganda movies from the 30's, for the following reasons:1-) The main character, a CIA agent called Maya, is entirely fictional. I don't have a problem with fiction, however, a movie that claims to depict the "Greatest man hunt in human history", shouldn't have a fictional character as the main character, because that already shows you this movie is going to be mostly fictional, and I doubt it depicts anything remotely similar as to how the real hunt for Bin Laden was. Maya is also an extremely 1 dimensional character, we don't get to know anything about her other than for some reason she has a rehab-esque obsession with murdering Osama Bin Laden.2-) This movie glorifies torture. I know this topic has been discussed by exhaustion in the media, however I just saw the movie yesterday and I was really dismayed by the extent in which it does so. Apparently, beating up, torturing, humiliating and raping are all honkey-dorey as long as you're striving for the "greater good"(again, a cloudy concept).3-) The movie shows the CIA as this righteous army that fights enemies of liberty and freedom, a bunch of smart, honest man and women who have only the interests of the american people at heart. We all know this couldn't be further from the truth. There is a moment in the movie where one of the CIA operatives say: "We need to be sure UBL is on that house, remember when we thought that Saddam had WMDs, but in fact he hadn't?"HA! In the real world, no one in the CIA ever honestly considered that Saddam had WMDs! You can read a NY times op-ed piece by former American ambassador to Niger, Joseph Wilson, in which he clearly demonstrates the honeytrap story created by the CIA to justify the war in Iraq (Saddam NEVER imported yellowcake from Niger). Also, there is a scene with Leon Panetta and some other top CIA directors where they say "We are all very smart here,*grin*". Yea! the CIA is really smart and competent, thats why they failed to kill Fidel Castro 638 times, botched the bay of Pigs invasion, stole Manuel Noriega's drug money in Panama, and allowed UBL to slip through their fingers for over 10 years.4-) Another scene on the movie has this CIA "tough guy" field operative telling his boss. "I dont care about these coming congressional hearings at the Senate, I created and ran the torture program, I will go to congress and defend it". HA! As if anyone from the CIA caught red handed doing something criminal ever stepped up to openly take the blame! They are all cowards, and as soon as shit hits the fan, they start throwing the blame around to each other!In other words, this movie has a script that reminds me of a "Team America" that takes itself seriously, one of the worst pieces of propaganda I've ever seen from Hollywood, which is really saying something. I feel sad that Kat Bigelow bent the knee to the powerful CIA-Jewish-American-Hollywood lobby, I understand that after this she will never have trouble to find funding for one of her projects again, but I for one won't be seeing any of her future movies. English is not my first language, so I hope I made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Saci,jewish-american Hollywood lobby...the powerful CIA-Jewish-American-Hollywood lobbyWhat do you mean by this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbound Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Saci,What do you mean by this?The only meaning I got out of this, is that this guy is fucking nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 However, her new movie Zero Dark Thirty,a script given to her by the CIA, and financed by the jewish-american Hollywood lobby, reminds me a lot of one of those fascist propaganda movies from the 30's....:If Chuck Hegel was a film critic....1-) The main character, a CIA agent called Maya, is entirely fictional. I don't have a problem with fiction, however, a movie that claims to depict the "Greatest man hunt in human history", shouldn't have a fictional character as the main character, because that already shows you this movie is going to be mostly fictional, and I doubt it depicts anything remotely familiar as to how the real hunt for Bin Laden was. Maya is also an extremely 1 dimensional character, we don't get to know anything about her other than for some reason she has a rehab-esque obsession with murdering Osama Bin Laden.I'm not sure how you know all this, and I don't see any reason why we should care anything about her life other than the hunt for bin Laden. That being said, I was not impressed with the lead actress at all, and think she was nominated more because it was a non-traditional role for a woman rather than because of her performance. She basically sported the same facial experession the entire movie other than a 20 second scene where she was angry. Plus, if you're going to try to make something at least "based on a true story", it helps if all the characters aren't Hollywood good-looking types. To me, movies like Argo and Lincoln got that more right, because every character doesn't look like they just walked out of central casting, even though that it literally true. Real world people are sometimes ugly, sweaty, etc.. Give her some nasty pit stains, salt marks, etc.. on her too-tight t-shirt, at least.2-) This movie glorifies torture. I know this topic has been discussed by exhaustion in the media, however I just saw the movie yesterday and I was really dismayed by the extent in which it does so. Apparently, beating up, torturing, humiliating and raping are all honkey-dorey as long as you're striving for the "greater good"(again, a cloudy concept).I didn't see it as glorifying torture. I thought it presented it pretty flatly, leaving viewers to draw their own conclusions. I'm sure many people were horrified and repulsed. Others may not have minded seeing the screws put to that guy. Nobody denies that happened, so how were they supposed to depict it, other than how they did? With your voice-over lecturing the audience on morality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Of House Hill Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The OP reminds me of a guy from Lebanon who told me the Saudis were Israeli stooges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I didn't think that it glorified torture at all. It presented it in a pretty straight-up way, similar to the way that Tropa de Elite handled the BOPE's interogation of criminals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I've not seen the film yet but:1-) The main character, a CIA agent called Maya, is entirely fictional. I don't have a problem with fiction, however, a movie that claims to depict the "Greatest man hunt in human history", shouldn't have a fictional character as the main character, because that already shows you this movie is going to be mostly fictional, and I doubt it depicts anything remotely familiar as to how the real hunt for Bin Laden was. Maya is also an extremely 1 dimensional character, we don't get to know anything about her other than for some reason she has a rehab-esque obsession with murdering Osama Bin Laden.where did you get that information from? By all accounts, she is based on someone real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I just have to add....4-) Another scene on the movie has this CIA "tough guy" field operative telling his boss. "I dont care about these coming congressional hearings at the Senate, I created and ran the torture program, I will go to congress and defend it". HA! As if anyone from the CIA caught red handed doing something criminal ever stepped up to openly take the blame! They are all cowards, and as soon as shit hits the fan, they start throwing the blame around to each other!It's funny that you have to go back to a completely different operation to "prove" your point that nobody from the CIA ever takes responsibility. And you still got it wrong. Who threw blame around in Iran-Contra? Poindexter admitted it was his idea -- that Reagan approved the sales to Iran but not the fund diversion to the Contras. North's testimony was remarkable precisely because he was so up front in admitting what he did. Plus...do you know the difference between the NSC and the CIA? Nah, guessing not....In any case, you're wrong about the CIA not taking responsibility here. People in the CIA have admitted to doing this, though they wouldn't agree with you that it was criminal.3-) The movie shows the CIA as this righteous army that fights enemies of liberty and freedom, a bunch of smart, honest man and women who have only the interests of the american people at heart. We all know this couldn't be further from the truth.No, "we" don't. And I guess you didn't see Argo, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 words and stuffSo does that make your post a manifesto on a manifesto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Maybe the OP writes for the Onion?English is not my first language, so I hope I made sense. Uh, what is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I'm just glad to know that racism and anti-Semitism are alive and well outside the United States and its not just us that still have backwards views of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saci Targaryen Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 The OP reminds me of a guy from Lebanon who told me the Saudis were Israeli stooges.1-)Israel and Saudi Arabia are dopplëgangers, they are one and the same. One cannot possibly separate Israel from Saudi Arabia when it comes to geo-political interests(I'm jewish btw)2-) Tropa de Elite is fascist too.3-) Some former CIA operatives have come forward to state that this woman does not exist and the movie is heavily fictional.4-) No, I have not watched Argo yet, hope to do it soon.5-) The Iran-Conta affair was the biggest embarrassment on the history of the agency, the CIA and the Presidency denied it for several months and only admitted to the truth after the media had exposed everything. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saci Targaryen Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 I'm just glad to know that racism and anti-Semitism are alive and well outside the United States and its not just us that still have backwards views of the world.Your holocaust card does not work against a Brazilian sephardi jew, whose grandparents fled Hungary in 1941, through Northern Italy, Switzerland, Portugal, and finally Brazil (all ships to the USA were already full of jewish refugees). Most zionists play on Holocaust propaganda, and they keep feeding it on a loop, but the truth is that very few of them are actually holocaust survivors. Bibi Netanyahu's family was having it easy under the british palestine mandate for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Your holocaust card does not work against a Brazilian sephardi jew, whose grandparents fled Hungary in 1941, through Northern Italy, Switzerland, Portugal, and finally Brazil (all ships to the USA were already full of jewish refugees). Most zionists play on Holocaust propaganda, and they keep feeding it on a loop, but the truth is that very few of them are actually holocaust survivors. Bibi Netanyahu's family was having it easy under the british palestine mandate for instance.OMG yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 2-) Tropa de Elite is fascist too.A movie can have fascist themes without being fascist propaganda.There is a big difference between something like Triumph of the Will and Zero Dark Thirty or Tropa de Elite, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Saci,I'm glad your grandparents made it out. A Dutch friend from law school lost all her Grandparents in the Shoah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saci Targaryen Posted February 25, 2013 Author Share Posted February 25, 2013 A movie can have fascist themes without being fascist propaganda.There is a big difference between something like Triumph of the Will and Zero Dark Thirty or Tropa de Elite, for instance.Its funny that you mentioned Tropa de Elite, because that's the first movie that came to my head while watching this. I remember this scene where the CIA agents are disappointed that they haven't managed to break a poor arab man after trying several different types of torture, I thought "They should try Captain Nascimento's method of suffocating the man with a plastic bag, that ought work." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 3-) Some former CIA operatives have come forward to state that this woman does not exist and the movie is heavily fictional.Links would help, but the problem here (obviously) is that the details are all classified. People may leak things to benefit their POV, but we cannot know exactly what is true in terms of whether or not she is real. The most convincing explanation I've heard personally is that she is a composite. That makes sense, because I do know some people who know this stuff, and the different functions they have her perform in the movie, (interrogator, desk analyst, field operative, etc.. are not typically performed by the same person.But, in terms of the bigger picture, none of that really matters. He clearly was tracked over a long period of time in what had to be some pretty tedious detective work, found, and killed. But I do agree with you that the movie was overrated.4-) No, I have not watched Argo yet, hope to do it soon.A little fictionalized as well for the sake of drama, but they got some details amazingly right, right down to the guy leaving the embassy to try to talk down the rioters. He happened to be a friend of my parents, FWIW. One thing I do recall very specifically was that credit for that operation publicly went just to the State Department, and Americans, commentators and regular folk alike, were saying "gee, why can't our CIA pull off something like that?" Turns out, they did.5-) The Iran-Conta affair was the biggest embarrassment on the history of the agency, the CIA and the Presidency denied it for several months and only revealed the truth after the media had exposed everything. Uh, how does that video make your case? Generally, we don't admit to intelligence operations while they are ongoing, so denying that something occured is hardly unusual. The issue with Reagan is that he saw it as fostering improved relations, not trading arms directly for hostages, and that's backed up by contemporaneous notes of disagreements among his advisors.But that's not what you said anyway. You said that people in the CIA "start throwing around blame at each other," then cited to Iran-Contra as your example of that. Okay, so who pointed fingers at who? Because I don't see that at all.Reagan admitted authorizing selling arms to Iran, for the purpose of hopefully improving relations and getting hostages back. It didn't work, and we were suckered. In terms of the Contras, Admiral Poindexter was appointed head of the NSC after McFarlane resigned in late '85. Poindexter admitted personally approving North's suggestion in early '86 to take profits from the deal and use them to finance the Contras. They both admitted to it, so to the extent there was finger-pointing going on, they were pointing it at themselves.And both were members of the NSC, not the CIA, so I don't get the "biggest embarassment in the history of the Agency" line at all. You can blame the CIA for a lot of things, and they did provide some logistical support, but it wasn't their operation or idea. So again, how does Iran-Contra demonstrate that people in the CIA "throw around blame around to each other?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Former Lord of Winterfell Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Your holocaust card does not work against a Brazilian sephardi jew, whose grandparents fled Hungary in 1941, through Northern Italy, Switzerland, Portugal, and finally Brazil (all ships to the USA were already full of jewish refugees). Most zionists play on Holocaust propaganda, and they keep feeding it on a loop, but the truth is that very few of them are actually holocaust survivors. Bibi Netanyahu's family was having it easy under the british palestine mandate for instance.He didn't say anything about the Holocaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seli Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 1) A gestalt persona to represent different people might have been considered a good idea to either protect real persons or streamline the narrative. Nothing weird there.Saci,I'm glad your grandparents made it out. A Dutch friend from law school lost all her Grandparents in the Shoah.The survival rate of Jews in the Netherlands at the start of the occupation is horrible, not one of our best hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.