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Robb and the Red Wedding


Vergo

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I have read it 4 time by now, the first time i was terribly shocked, but after the fourth time the chaper still has hell of an impact and I believe that is because it is so well written - skin turning!

From the first line the impending doom is apparent, every aspect is horrifiying. Cat notices this, the reaction of the wolf, the unfriendly greeting, the separation from the men, bad food, bad music, little remarks from old Frey... the chaper is a masterpiece of horror!

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I just finished Storm of Swords, and I will say that it's definitely worth finishing, Red Wedding aside.

Immediately after it, I started hoping that Jeyne Westerline did actually get pregnant with Robb's child, because then there would still be a part of Robb, of Catelyn and Ned, the direct eldest child line, out there, somewhere...

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I don't understand how it happened. Surely someone must have blabbed about it and told someone? I mean; Roose will have told his own men and the Karstark men that were with him from Harrenhall who didn't abandon the cause, but surely after fighting in the Riverlands for such a long time they will have made friends among Stark men, or any other northern house. If you knew you'd warn your friend to keep away from the feast tents outside. The realism that GRRM tries to put forward in his books is missed here, SOMEONE would have found out and told someone else, there's absolutely no way that the Bolton or Frey men would have enough cause to hate Robb and the other northerners that much to let them be massacred whilst they thought they were safe? Are the Bolton and Frey men really that loyal to their liege lords, after no provocation, other than the slight that Robb came back to apologise for at the RW in the first place?

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I don't understand how it happened. Surely someone must have blabbed about it and told someone? I mean; Roose will have told his own men and the Karstark men that were with him from Harrenhall who didn't abandon the cause, but surely after fighting in the Riverlands for such a long time they will have made friends among Stark men, or any other northern house. If you knew you'd warn your friend to keep away from the feast tents outside. The realism that GRRM tries to put forward in his books is missed here, SOMEONE would have found out and told someone else, there's absolutely no way that the Bolton or Frey men would have enough cause to hate Robb and the other northerners that much to let them be massacred whilst they thought they were safe? Are the Bolton and Frey men really that loyal to their liege lords, after no provocation, other than the slight that Robb came back to apologise for at the RW in the first place?

This is a discussion probably best had in the General forums, as some of the evidence relies on subsequent books.

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This is a discussion probably best had in the General forums, as some of the evidence relies on subsequent books.

The point is....it was not Bolton's idea of Frey's idea....it was Tywin Lannisters plan all along ....he set the whole thing up with Bolton and Frey....of course Robb was a complete fool the way he played his cards politically....by the time he was done he lost many of his important allies and his cause was lost because of silly marriage....then again it's implied that Tywin put Jayne Westerling up to it as to slight the Frey's.....he's a cunning sob that Tywin....and so it was a punch in the gut to read the red Wedding chapter.....but the Starks were never ones for political sophistication. His dopey mother started the whole thing by kidnapping Tyrion...
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His dopey mother started the whole thing by kidnapping Tyrion...

I think Jaime started it all by pushing an innocent child out of a tower window. If I were Catelyn,I would probably kidnap Tyrion too... I can't understand why so many people are that harsh on Catelyn.

As for Robb, he was taught well by his father and all, he was just too honorable and too... good to play the game. His death saddened me, I felt like Roose Bolton's dagger was piercing my back,not Robb's. But as Tyrion said in ACOK - if you want to beat Cersei, you have to play her game, and Jon Arryn and Ned couldn't. And Robb is too much like his father.

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...While reading ACoK, I really started to like Robb. Or more, I liked what he seemed to stand for. Ned's death was a huge shocked, of course, but it made immediate sense how it was absolutely neccessary to progress the plot and start the actual conflict. What Robb stood for, in my mind while first reading that book, was justice. Or, more like revenge...

Anyone else feel the same way, specifically about Robb? I know a few other major characters bite the dust in the book, but really, his impacted me the most. And consolidation to keep reading would be appreciated too. :frown5:

Well first off, you are meant to like Robb, and the Red Wedding is meant to have an impact, so you are not alone.

Revenge is the key. If you can survive your scars and read on long enough you can see what GRRM is trying to tell us about revenge, leadership, how to rule and how to conduct politics in Westeros.

Somewhere else in ASOS we are told that "the wolves will come again" so be of good cheer ;)

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I felt the exact same way as the majority of you. I remember going "Nooooo...." and shedding a tear or two. I laid down the book and was finished with my reading for the day.

The way that we all felt towards this event gives me this HUGE HUNCH that the Red Wedding would be the perfect season finale for this upcoming season.

I can't wait!!!!!!

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The Starks have not been defeated, far from it. The last book in the series which has yet to be written, was originally going to be called "a time for wolves". I know im a month late on this post, but continue reading, its well worth it. Admittedly the Stark stories dwindle a bit, nothing major happening, but they'll come again.

I think GRRMs point was to remove the most genuine characters from the game (of thrones) for now, but certainly not for good.

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The Freys have absolutely NO right to name Robb as oathbreaker after their own conduct of failing to answer the Tullys' call for aid, right at the end of the first book, culminating in Walder blackmailing Catelyn into agreeing for Robb to marry a Frey in the first place.

I mean. They were *already* oathbreakers, failing to aid the Tullys, and their behaviour had already cost lives (failure to give expected military support during a war does that.) Robb's broken promise would have hurt nothing except people's egos when he married Jeyne instead of one of the Freys.

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They didn't really break their oaths though, they just came late..

He swore he would marry the Frey, them married jeyne.

No, the frey's haven't a clue what honor is.

But Robb paid the price for his foolishness

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First, Frey had been slighted many times in the past, so there was some history. 2nd, and mainly, new alliances were being formed, and the Starks were best eliminated. Very Godfather-esk.

This fits right in with the themes of politics, deception, intrigue and violence that are the hallmarks of the series. It's brilliant writing. Don't take it so serious, and enjoy. Heh.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Freys have absolutely NO right to name Robb as oathbreaker after their own conduct of failing to answer the Tullys' call for aid, right at the end of the first book, culminating in Walder blackmailing Catelyn into agreeing for Robb to marry a Frey in the first place.

I mean. They were *already* oathbreakers, failing to aid the Tullys, and their behaviour had already cost lives (failure to give expected military support during a war does that.) Robb's broken promise would have hurt nothing except people's egos when he married Jeyne instead of one of the Freys.

i dont think that can be considered oathbreaking though...

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I just finished reading this, and I am in shock! It mostly saddens me that Catelyn had all of this sadness in her heart (Arya, Bran, Rickon, Sansa's marriage), and then her life just ended! Robb was childish when he married Jeyne, but... he was truly the younger version of Ned, with the passion of his mother, and to just end a life with so much potential saddens me so much! & I agree with your statement about the direwolf's head being sewn on his body. SO unnecessary! :(

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