The future of Great Jon and Sir Loras in WOW

[drayrock]

Not at all do I think their future's are going to coincide, I just didn't want to make two threads on similar topics.

Let's debate what we think will happen with each of them, as I don't believe either of them are by any means done.

As far as Loras goes, I partially of the belief that he isn't mortally injured. Then he could champion Margarey. But on the other side of the coin he'd be fighting Ungregor and I don't see him winning, that would make it pointless for Ungregor to even be made. So if he is alive and well and this does happen then I imagine Ungregor will win causing even more strife between the two families of the throne now.

But also this seems crackpot to me as in GOT when Ned calls for someone to take Gregor's head and many other times with Jaime Loras has shown he's too cocky and unafraid of danger and jumps at any chance for valor...which coincides with the description given to him when he attacked Dragonstone. It is almost to "his character not to be true. It could be a ploy by George to show what can come of too much skill and look and show how type of lifestyle and demeanor ends...mortally and in a grievous way in a way to almost juxtapose Jaime who seems to be gaining humility and also seems to notice Loras's flaws more than anyone else.

As for Great Jon, I think things are wide open and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. I don't think his days are done. He's too cool of a character and so the essence of the North, that if he is going to die or be left in the dus, there will only be very unnorthern lords in the north like the Boltons, Freys (if they inherit northern lands) and people like Manderly who I love but just doesn't represent "Northmen" historically at all (yes there is more but those are some of the majors that are in control now). And I personally see a redemption of the north brewing at least to some degree, in the sense that they will eventually rally and help some good cause such as the issues at the wall and I think the Great Jon will be a huge part of this uniting. Especially after we know he saw how much trust Robb showed in Jon Snow when discussing his will and his potential heir. I could see him aiding other northmen to help Jon due to his loyalty in Robb's word and the Stark blood.

[winteriscome]

Not at all do I think their future's are going to coincide, I just didn't want to make two threads on similar topics.

Let's debate what we think will happen with each of them, as I don't believe either of them are by any means done.

As far as Loras goes, I partially of the belief that he isn't mortally injured. Then he could champion Margarey. But on the other side of the coin he'd be fighting Ungregor and I don't see him winning, that would make it pointless for Ungregor to even be made. So if he is alive and well and this does happen then I imagine Ungregor will win causing even more strife between the two families of the throne now.

But also this seems crackpot to me as in GOT when Ned calls for someone to take Gregor's head and many other times with Jaime Loras has shown he's too cocky and unafraid of danger and jumps at any chance for valor...which coincides with the description given to him when he attacked Dragonstone. It is almost to "his character not to be true. It could be a ploy by George to show what can come of too much skill and look and show how type of lifestyle and demeanor ends...mortally and in a grievous way in a way to almost juxtapose Jaime who seems to be gaining humility and also seems to notice Loras's flaws more than anyone else.

As for Great Jon, I think things are wide open and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. I don't think his days are done. He's too cool of a character and so the essence of the North, that if he is going to die or be left in the dus, there will only be very unnorthern lords in the north like the Boltons, Freys (if they inherit northern lands) and people like Manderly who I love but just doesn't represent "Northmen" historically at all (yes there is more but those are some of the majors that are in control now). And I personally see a redemption of the north brewing at least to some degree, in the sense that they will eventually rally and help some good cause such as the issues at the wall and I think the Great Jon will be a huge part of this uniting. Especially after we know he saw how much trust Robb showed in Jon Snow when discussing his will and his potential heir. I could see him aiding other northmen to help Jon due to his loyalty in Robb's word and the Stark blood.

Agree with you on both counts the GJ is waiting for a chance, one that Manderly will provide him an then he will unleash an ass whooping on the freys as for Loras I think he's hiding, dont think he will fight Robert Strong, in fact I believe this is the exact reason he is in hiding; to avoid fighting Robert Strong.

[The Red Star]

Loras to survive but to be horribly disfigured, like a good Darth Vader, youll never see him out of his armor

[The Iron Suitor]

I think The Great Jon will be the one who kills Roose in the end while saying King Robb sends his regards. He wants revenge for the Starks more than anyone the thing he values most is strength and honor and he saw both of those in Robb and he became his right hand man. He needs to kill Roose.

@RedStar

Isn't Gregor kind of like a Darth Vader who was never good; presumably he will never be seen without his armor again.

[Bayard]

Greatjon is the natural military leader for Northern troops. He could lead Jon's vanguard :). The other competent Northerners are kind of gone. There still are the Glovers, but they don't look like great generals.

[BlueEyedCrow]

I think Loras is on his way to fight the Ironborn. They never went to, or faked (somehow) going to dragonstone. He really went around Dorne with the Redwyne fleet to fight the Ironborn. It seems the Ironborn are preparing a raid on Oldtown, which puts Highgarden next on the hit list. We really don't know much about what the Hightowers are doing, except for the fact that Lord Hightower doesn't leave his tower. We already have POV in Oldtown (Sam), so this could make sense. You might have Sam meet an Oldtown-savior Loras after the fight, OR you mgiht have Sam meet Euron after his victory at Oldtown...or neither idk

Greatjon is wide open, but what a great secondary character!

[Col. Forbin]

Loras is the ghost of Winterfell and he is waiting for Stannis to arrive so he can exact his revenge for Renley. I guess he decided to take out a few Frey's and Ramsay scumbags in the meantime. :P

[jon stark I]

Greatjon must return North but how?I think BWB or Arya will storm the Twins and rescue the prisoners.If BWB rescues and Uncat shows her face to Greatjon and the other prisoners they will be real believers.I mean she returned from death and Northmen might take that as a sign from the Old Gods.If that happens I really look forward a conversation between Uncat and Greatjon.

[DExit]

The GJ is awesome, but he doesn't have the sort of cunning that is needed to rule or win great victories.

I also partially blame him for the Karstark-disaster, Robb was a stubborn boy of fifteen thinking more of honour than of consequences, but the GJ is a grown man! The way he treats lord Rickard... that man fought alongside him and when he falls to despair the GJ just drops him as a sack of dung.

The main man for commanding an army in the north is, aside from roose and stan, Robbet Glover! Anyone remember the chapter where he got Davos out of the cells in the wolfs den? Loved it! BTW, Glover already had his own command, he faild, but learning is done by trial and error or something like that ;)

[The Iron Suitor]

Imagine a Northern army behind Jon with his advisers being Tormund and the Greatjon. Just imagine how their conversations would go.

[The Red Star]

Greatjon must return North but how?I think BWB or Arya will storm the Twins and rescue the prisoners.If BWB rescues and Uncat shows her face to Greatjon and the other prisoners they will be real believers.I mean she returned from death and Northmen might take that as a sign from the Old Gods.If that happens I really look forward a conversation between Uncat and Greatjon.

I may be wrong but didnt Jaimie demand the release of prisoners, wether or not they heed him is another thing

[jon stark I]

I think he said he wanted all Frey prisoners but I don't remember anything about releasing the prisoners.

[Myk Lonmouth]

Loras to survive but to be horribly disfigured, like a good Darth Vader, youll never see him out of his armor

I like this idea. The green armor of Renley's perhaps.

[drayrock]

Imagine a Northern army behind Jon with his advisers being Tormund and the Greatjon. Just imagine how their conversations would go.

hahhahahha

[BarristanTheBold1]

Do you guys and gals see the knights of the vale joining in when the Northmen "remember"? I think that there is an untapped army that wants to join the Northmen but have been held back. Once LF is disposed of (possibly by Sansa), can we look for them to hook up with the North to exact revenge?

[The Bastard's Bastard]

Imagine a Northern army behind Jon with his advisers being Tormund and the Greatjon. Just imagine how their conversations would go.

HAR!

/OT Damn i'd like to see Jon as the King in the North.

[DExit]

/OT Damn i'd like to see Jon as the King in the North.

Rickon is the head of the Stark family, he'll be either king in the north or lord of winterfell!

It always annoys me, half of us is sure jon isn't Ned's son at all, and even if he is he is still base born, what has rickon ever done to anyone to diserve his rights being taken away from him.

It would be awesome if he wed shireen and became the new Stan the man a few years after ados: "Winterfell is mine, by right!" he probably has the awesomness to do it if he was shunned from his homecastle. I like jon, but if he takes up kingship or lordship and keeps doing so while knowing rickon is alive...

[Myk Lonmouth]

what has rickon ever done to anyone to diserve his rights being taken away from him.

Nothing. But if Rob, The King in the North, legitimized Jon and made him his heir... well, the King has spoken.

[Runaway Penguin]

I may be wrong but didnt Jaimie demand the release of prisoners, wether or not they heed him is another thing

He demanded the prisoners to be transfered to King's Landing.

There are two options:

1. the transfer takes place, and Jaime provided BwB with itinerary. Unlikely as he doesn't know it.

2. Freys didn't obey. Likely. Weeks have passed since jaime's disappearance, even more since his command. Breakout of prisoners enroute to KL would be noted, and prisoners never arrived. Hence Freys keep them.

2. leads to something that may provoke enough anger from Jaime to convince LS/BwB it is not faked... After all it is disobeying his direct order and at the same time not giving any hostages into Lannister hands ;) So if Freys refused to send the prisoners, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard may deem it breach of the King's Piece... Err, Peace and enlist assistance of King's Men to visit King's Justice upon House Frey.

Any way it happens, Greatjon stands true to House Umber sigil and will have some Frey or Lannister (but my guess is Frey... Lannisters were enemy, but Freys were traitors ;)) slaughter.

As for Loras, story seems fishy. ESPECIALLY with the messenger (Aurane Waters) generally bringing in the news, waiting for a proper moment and deserting... With strongest units of the fleet. Maybe Tyrells feel the change in the air and wanted to curry favors with whoever non-Lannister? After all they like to hae multiple angles covered and they want Redwyne fleet. So:

Margarey covers King's Landing

Loras disappears and offers Tyrell alliance to Stannis or fAegon... Or he just leads Redwyne fleet to scour the ironborn. However it is I think reports of his injuries are highly exaggerated and I won't believe them until GRRM shos the body :)

[aryagonnakill]

He demanded the prisoners to be transfered to King's Landing.

There are two options:

1. the transfer takes place, and Jaime provided BwB with itinerary. Unlikely as he doesn't know it.

2. Freys didn't obey. Likely. Weeks have passed since jaime's disappearance, even more since his command. Breakout of prisoners enroute to KL would be noted, and prisoners never arrived. Hence Freys keep them.

2. leads to something that may provoke enough anger from Jaime to convince LS/BwB it is not faked... After all it is disobeying his direct order and at the same time not giving any hostages into Lannister hands ;) So if Freys refused to send the prisoners, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard may deem it breach of the King's Piece... Err, Peace and enlist assistance of King's Men to visit King's Justice upon House Frey.

Any way it happens, Greatjon stands true to House Umber sigil and will have some Frey or Lannister (but my guess is Frey... Lannisters were enemy, but Freys were traitors ;)) slaughter.

As for Loras, story seems fishy. ESPECIALLY with the messenger (Aurane Waters) generally bringing in the news, waiting for a proper moment and deserting... With strongest units of the fleet. Maybe Tyrells feel the change in the air and wanted to curry favors with whoever non-Lannister? After all they like to hae multiple angles covered and they want Redwyne fleet. So:

Margarey covers King's Landing

Loras disappears and offers Tyrell alliance to Stannis or fAegon... Or he just leads Redwyne fleet to scour the ironborn. However it is I think reports of his injuries are highly exaggerated and I won't believe them until GRRM shos the body :)

The only problem with him being in league with the Tyrells is the reports we get of Aurane being a new pirate king based out of torturers deep.