The future of Great Jon and Sir Loras in WOW

[The Bastard of Walton]

Both these characters could be Prologue's for WOW. To be honest though, I think the GreatJon is dead. If not would be fun to see Arya infiltrate the Twins & free him, to help her kill all the Freys. Loras may turn into a sparrow, like Lancel did or could allie himself to Aegon after hearing the results of the trial by combat.

[Great Winter Knight]

Not at all do I think their future's are going to coincide, I just didn't want to make two threads on similar topics.

Let's debate what we think will happen with each of them, as I don't believe either of them are by any means done.

As far as Loras goes, I partially of the belief that he isn't mortally injured. Then he could champion Margarey. But on the other side of the coin he'd be fighting Ungregor and I don't see him winning, that would make it pointless for Ungregor to even be made. So if he is alive and well and this does happen then I imagine Ungregor will win causing even more strife between the two families of the throne now.

But also this seems crackpot to me as in GOT when Ned calls for someone to take Gregor's head and many other times with Jaime Loras has shown he's too cocky and unafraid of danger and jumps at any chance for valor...which coincides with the description given to him when he attacked Dragonstone. It is almost to "his character not to be true. It could be a ploy by George to show what can come of too much skill and look and show how type of lifestyle and demeanor ends...mortally and in a grievous way in a way to almost juxtapose Jaime who seems to be gaining humility and also seems to notice Loras's flaws more than anyone else.

As for Great Jon, I think things are wide open and I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this. I don't think his days are done. He's too cool of a character and so the essence of the North, that if he is going to die or be left in the dus, there will only be very unnorthern lords in the north like the Boltons, Freys (if they inherit northern lands) and people like Manderly who I love but just doesn't represent "Northmen" historically at all (yes there is more but those are some of the majors that are in control now). And I personally see a redemption of the north brewing at least to some degree, in the sense that they will eventually rally and help some good cause such as the issues at the wall and I think the Great Jon will be a huge part of this uniting. Especially after we know he saw how much trust Robb showed in Jon Snow when discussing his will and his potential heir. I could see him aiding other northmen to help Jon due to his loyalty in Robb's word and the Stark blood.

just a off the wall thought, but if one believes the hound is alive or rather Sandor is alive, could he come back and take this chance to kill his brother. I understand that he might be dead but I believe that the priest was saying the hound is dead but not Sandor. Just thinking out loud.

[Masha]

I think what every one forgot about Great Jon Umber is that he COMPLETELY HATES wildlings!!! And he actually has pretty good reason to do so!

Assuming that Jon Snow survives as a normal man (not like undead Beric or one of Others, or consumed with only 1 purpose like Lady Stoneheart of protecting the Wall or etc). He is still the one who allowed wildlings through and gave them the Gift. Umber lands are last lands before the Gift and the reason GreatJon hates wildlings is because they stole his only daughter and now that SmallJon is dead, he has no children. (unless Wildlings produce his daughter a la Bael the Bard and Starks.

Do you really think that GreatJon will unquestioningly follow Jon after he finds out about him and wildlings?

[Logodnica]

I think he said he wanted all Frey prisoners but I don't remember anything about releasing the prisoners.

Since FFC and ADWD are sort of parallel, this demand happened around the time Drogo took off with Dany. So I don't think enough time had passed to transfer the prisoners.

Personally I hope that the Freys don't transfer Greatjon. There's a wedding coming up at the Twins between Devan Lannister and a Frey girl. I really hope that it turns into RW2 with Lady Stoneheart, BwB, Blackfish and Nymeria's paxk attacking. They can release Greatjon from the Frey dungeons at that time.

As for Loras. They only way he's fighting Robert Strong is if he fights on behalf of the Faith Militant. The faith is the one that will have a champion against Cersei since they are accusing her. The Faith's champion will prob be Lancel who told Jamie that he's leaving Darry to join the faith in Kings Landing. Or maybe the Hound, since it would be magnificent irony to have him take on his own brother.

Margery chose a trial by the Faith. I don't think that involves combat, but is instead an actual trial. With the Tyrells having military control of KL, I doubt she'll be found guilty.

[Fender]

Not at all do I think their future's are going to coincide, I just didn't want to make two threads on similar topics.

Let's debate what we think will happen with each of them, as I don't believe either of them are by any means done.

As far as Loras goes, I partially of the belief that he isn't mortally injured. Then he could champion Margarey. But on the other side of the coin he'd be fighting Ungregor and I don't see him winning, that would make it pointless for Ungregor to even be made. So if he is alive and well and this does happen then I imagine Ungregor will win causing even more strife between the two families of the throne now.

[...]

Just want to mention right now that Loras will not champion Margaery, whether he's hurt or not. It's already been said in-text that she'll simply get a trial by the Faith, since she is convinced she can prove to the masses that she is innocent of the filth she was accused of by Cersei. So no, no championing. Cersei will get a trial by combat, but not Marge.

[BiPolar Bear]

The skull in the box sent to Dorne was the Greatjon's

[Myk Lonmouth]

The skull in the box sent to Dorne was the Greatjon's

Now that's an interesting theory.

[old_wolf]

when we already are at theories:

arya as the blind girl:

Before summoning the serving men to carry him away, she knelt and felt his face, tracing the line of his jaw, brushing her fingers across his cheeks and nose, touching his hair. Curly hair, and thick. A handsome face, unlined. He was young. ... but this man had no wounds she could find.

... On the handsome man she found for golden dragons out of Westeros.

4 golden dragons are not much for a boy of a great house, but at this description my first thought was "Loras"

[andrew_]

The skull in the box sent to Dorne was the Greatjon's

Possible but highly unlikely, the logistics alone would be hard. I think its Gregors skull and Robert Strong may have the head of one of Cersei and Qyburns prisoners. Sir Loras will go from being an attractive young man to a scarred hideous sour knight. Very Shakespearean if you ask me. I look forward to seeing him return to Kings Landing. The GreatJon is still alive imo, Walder Frey is the type of man that would've made a spectacle of an execution, and since nothing has been mentioned I doubt he has been killed.

[The Bastard of Walton]

The skull in the box sent to Dorne was the Greatjon's

I like this idea

Possible but highly unlikely, the logistics alone would be hard. I think its Gregors skull and Robert Strong may have the head of one of Cersei and Qyburns prisoners. Sir Loras will go from being an attractive young man to a scarred hideous sour knight. Very Shakespearean if you ask me. I look forward to seeing him return to Kings Landing. The GreatJon is still alive imo, Walder Frey is the type of man that would've made a spectacle of an execution, and since nothing has been mentioned I doubt he has been killed.

I like to think Gregor may have burning blue eyes under that helmet! But your idea sounds more likely, like in Brans first deep dream where he sees his family at the trident & describes a person "a shadow made from stone with glaring red eyes".

[Lord Spark of House Spark]

I like this idea

I like to think Gregor may have burning blue eyes under that helmet! But your idea sounds more likely, like in Brans first deep dream where he sees his family at the trident & describes a person "a shadow made from stone with glaring red eyes".

I like this idea

I like to think Gregor may have burning blue eyes under that helmet! But your idea sounds more likely, like in Brans first deep dream where he sees his family at the trident & describes a person "a shadow made from stone with glaring red eyes".

Possible but highly unlikely, the logistics alone would be hard. I think its Gregors skull and Robert Strong may have the head of one of Cersei and Qyburns prisoners. Sir Loras will go from being an attractive young man to a scarred hideous sour knight. Very Shakespearean if you ask me. I look forward to seeing him return to Kings Landing. The GreatJon is still alive imo, Walder Frey is the type of man that would've made a spectacle of an execution, and since nothing has been mentioned I doubt he has been killed.

The skull in the box sent to Dorne was the Greatjon's

Bran also had a dream where he sawa Knight in armour and when he lifted up his visor all that was there was a mass of bloody pipes, or something like that. It was in GOT when he was in a coma

Robert Strong has no head at all under his helmet, which is why no-one has ever seen him with it off. gregor's head was the one sent to Dorne

[Capt. Zemblanity]

Bran also had a dream where he sawa Knight in armour and when he lifted up his visor all that was there was a mass of bloody pipes, or something like that. It was in GOT when he was in a coma

Robert Strong has no head at all under his helmet, which is why no-one has ever seen him with it off. gregor's head was the one sent to Dorne

For some reason I wasn't sure that it was, in fact, Ser Gregor's head that went to Dorne... Isn't it possible it was one of the dwarf heads that Cersei had a surplus of at the time.

[EnergeticCrab]

Assuming Loras survives his 'injuries' does anyone think he will love again? After Renly?

when we already are at theories:

arya as the blind girl:

Before summoning the serving men to carry him away, she knelt and felt his face, tracing the line of his jaw, brushing her fingers across his cheeks and nose, touching his hair. Curly hair, and thick. A handsome face, unlined. He was young. ... but this man had no wounds she could find.

... On the handsome man she found for golden dragons out of Westeros.

4 golden dragons are not much for a boy of a great house, but at this description my first thought was "Loras"

DAMN this is kind of interesting actually.

[JLE]

It could have been *Smalljon's* head that went to Dorne - he was apparently even bigger than Greatjon, and he died at the Red Wedding.

Somebody will champion the Faith against Ser Robert Strong, and lose - Cersei will win her trial by combat.

If Sandor is alive and does end up fighting against Ser Robert, my best prediction is that it'll be because *Sansa* ends up being captured, put on trial by an obvious kangaroo court (charged with assisting Tyrion in Joffrey's murder) - she has actually been told by Littlefinger that he, Dontos and Willas Tyrell were involved (and that Tyrion was as innocent as she is). I wonder how much of the truth she'd tell, but probably all of it. Cue uproar at court, at the fresh allegations. Nobody believes her, she would have to choose trial by combat, with Cersei naming Ser Robert as champion, Sansa will need a champion. With nobody else daring to face "Ser Robert", she gets a couple of days to wait for volunteers, and just as time is running out, in walks a big man wearing the infamous Hound helmet (of course he has his own name to clear as well, so one trial-by-combat will do for both)...

[Logodnica]

when we already are at theories:

arya as the blind girl:

Before summoning the serving men to carry him away, she knelt and felt his face, tracing the line of his jaw, brushing her fingers across his cheeks and nose, touching his hair. Curly hair, and thick. A handsome face, unlined. He was young. ... but this man had no wounds she could find.

... On the handsome man she found for golden dragons out of Westeros.

4 golden dragons are not much for a boy of a great house, but at this description my first thought was "Loras"

Loras is a knight through and through and he actually believes all the codes and honor crap. There is no way that he would abandon the siege of Storm's End. He would consider it cowardly to run from battle. And if he runs, why go to Braavos just to commit suicide? Why abandon his sister and family and suddenly give up on his dreams of fame and glory?

If he really wants to die, he can be at the front line of the battle.

[grod823]

Hopefully the Greatjon reunites with the northmen after the Frey's get what is coming to them. The Greatjon (as Robb's most loyal bannerman) should be the one to kill old Walder Frey.

Ser Loras is a mystery though. I think that he ends up coming back only after the trial by the faith where tensions finally will blow up between Tyrell and Lannister.

[Ser Ennepe]

I think what every one forgot about Great Jon Umber is that he COMPLETELY HATES wildlings!!! And he actually has pretty good reason to do so!

Assuming that Jon Snow survives as a normal man (not like undead Beric or one of Others, or consumed with only 1 purpose like Lady Stoneheart of protecting the Wall or etc). He is still the one who allowed wildlings through and gave them the Gift. Umber lands are last lands before the Gift and the reason GreatJon hates wildlings is because they stole his only daughter and now that SmallJon is dead, he has no children. (unless Wildlings produce his daughter a la Bael the Bard and Starks.

Do you really think that GreatJon will unquestioningly follow Jon after he finds out about him and wildlings?

Actually it is said that the GreatJon has sons and daughters so his line is more than safe. Beside this, it wasn´t his daughter that got stolen but the daughter of his uncle Mors Umber, who is also the one that really really hates the free folk.

But Boy do I hope that the GreatJon breaks free and kills every Frey on his way into freedom. And the last one should be Late Lord Frey. :devil:

[Robin the Mighty]

1) Ser Loras:

I have no idea what loras is doing. He might be fighting ironmen ( most probably) or just searching dragonstone for treasures or he was given the gift and the FM have to assassinate someone: cercei or euron.(most unlikely)

2) Greatjon

The Greatjon will escape (*). And he will tell the world of Robb's will. Now Jon Stark will still be a man of the NW, if he is released from the vows he will be the true King in the North, but not the Lord of Winterfell: Staniss does npt recognise Robb as a king so his decrees do not mater.

*: He will nedd help to escape. As someone said before Jaime with the BwB dressed as Lannister men enter the twins and during Davens wedding everybody dies.

P.S.: Robb first choose Galbart Glover for command, so Robett might still be a good commander. Even Alexander the Great would have lost Duskendale.

[Malcolm of House Tucker]

On the Greatjon:

Stannis sacks Winterfell and defeats the Bolton forces. Ramsay is slain, but Roose escapes to the Twins to regroup with the surviving Frey forces and plan their next move. Arya arrives in Westeros as a Faceless Man and makes her way to the Twins. Disguised, she gets into the stronghold and overhears guards talking about how they have the Greatjon in the dungeons. Arya releases the Greatjon and the two of them open the gates of both castles of the Twins. Stannis and his army enter through the eastern side and slaughter all in their path. Nymeria and her massive wolf pack enter the western castle and unleash hell. I like the theory that the Greatjon will encounter Roose Bolton and kill him after uttering "Robb Stark sends his regards."

On Ser Loras Tyrell:

I really think Loras doesn't have much of a role left to play. I think he was not injured on Dragonstone and will be the Faith's champion against Ser Robert Strong during Cersei's trial. Franken-Gregor will kill Loras and allow Cersei to win, keeping her around for most of The Winds of Winter.

[HouseLark]

I'd love to see Loras come back as a Sand dan Glokta figure; a pretty, vain, talented knight who gets disfigured (by the boiling oil and gruesome injuries) and twisted by the loss of everything he was before. It's a nice enough trope, I'm just unsure of the endgame for it in ASoIaF.