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[ADwD SPOILERS] Jon Snow


StarkWolf

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Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger's hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. ''Ghost," he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold ...

I think most of us are agreed that this simply cannot be the end for Jon Snow. Too much has been invested in this character for it to end like this. So what happens now?

A number of different scenarios have been proposed. Jon could become a wight like coldhands and continue his battle against the Others. Melisandre could gift him with the kiss of fire giving us Undead Jon or by burning his body he is reborn, depending, of course, on his being Azor Ahai and a Targaryen.

I don't want to see him as a wight or Undead. He deserves a pulse.

The most likely scenario I can see is his warging into Ghost. I think the prologue for ADwD is very telling. Varamyr Sixskins meets the true death but lives on through his pack master One Eye. Jon will do the same through Ghost. The direwolfs name alone is quite telling.

But Ghost is no ordinary direwolf. Time and time again, his appearance has been commented on throughout the series especially in relation to the weirwood trees and the old gods. HIs fur is white like the bark and his eyes red like the leaves and sap. He is also silent like the trees.

The last we heard of Ghost was in the armory. He is restless and wild so Jon leaves him behind. I can't see Ghost staying at the wall especially with Borroq and his boar nearby. He will escape and head south possibly look for his other direwolf siblings. But I don't believe Jon will remain in Ghosts body forever.

Melisandre has seen Jon in her visions. She forewarned him of his death - Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. Part of that vision, I feel, was also a foreshadowing of things to come.

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again.

Jon will have to find another body. And I don't think it can be just anyone. This is where his Targaryen heritage will come into play. What Targ do we know of in Westeros at the moment? There's only one - Aegon. Whether he is truly Rhaegars Aegon or of Blackfyre descent, he is still the blood of old Valyria. We know Aegon plans on leading the attack on Storm's End and we know Griff is not keen on the idea. What if something happens to the boy? What if Jon is reborn in his body? I know it's a stretch, but if not Aegon, then who else can he use? Or how will he become man again?

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Jon will have to find another body. And I don't think it can be just anyone. This is where his Targaryen heritage will come into play. What Targ do we know of in Westeros at the moment? There's only one - Aegon. Whether he is truly Rhaegars Aegon or of Blackfyre descent, he is still the blood of old Valyria. We know Aegon plans on leading the attack on Storm's End and we know Griff is not keen on the idea. What if something happens to the boy? What if Jon is reborn in his body? I know it's a stretch, but if not Aegon, then who else can he use? Or how will he become man again?

In Varamyr's POV, he mentioned that warging into another human's body is an

abomination.

I believe he's going to warg Ghost but he won't stay there forever. Because if he did,

Jon's memory will perish until everything about him will perish as well.

. That's how the second life of a warg works. I hope Jon's body is only in a state of coma so he can come back ala Bran.

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I don't think Jon will stay a part of the Night's Watch forever. In order for him to be able to move on he has to die. Or his body does. Mormonts raven said some interesting things in his previous POV. And that is no ordinary raven.

''Corn,'' the bird said, and, ''King,'' and, ''Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow.''

Even Jon noted the bird had never said his full name before.

As regards Jon losing himself or his sentient being in Ghost, I don't think he will either. Ghost is connected to the old gods so I don't think they'll allow that to happen and may somehow be involved in finding Jon a new body.

Bran is able to warg into Hodors body. Varamyr is a wildling and probably not as strong a skinchanger as either Bran or Jon. What he calls an abomination may be the only solution for Jon. And if Jon should come across a body in comatose or dying then why not?

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I absolutely despise when people diss cliches but I think Jon inhabiting someone else's body just seems very out of character for Jon. He isn't even fully comfortable with his warg status and he completely distrusts Melisandre's magic. I do think he may warg Ghost until a solution can be found but what it will be... I can't say.

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I'm not fond of the idea of him using someone elses body but he has to survive. GRRM said somewhere that Jon would be going into some grey areas in the next book. It may not be permanent either. His body may be preserved in the ice cells for a time. Dany has three fires to light. The third one 'to love' could be what brings him back to himself.

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Jon will have to find another body. And I don't think it can be just anyone. This is where his Targaryen heritage will come into play. What Targ do we know of in Westeros at the moment? There's only one - Aegon. Whether he is truly Rhaegars Aegon or of Blackfyre descent, he is still the blood of old Valyria. We know Aegon plans on leading the attack on Storm's End and we know Griff is not keen on the idea. What if something happens to the boy? What if Jon is reborn in his body? I know it's a stretch, but if not Aegon, then who else can he use? Or how will he become man again?

That quote is pretty thought provoking and interesting.

Everyone seems so quick to talk about Warging like its nothing, when most of the characters are barely aware of what they can do. I think something to take away from the Prologue Chapter is that it is a very difficult thing to control even if it comes naturally to the Starks. Bran is leaps and bounds above everyone in ability followed probably by Jon or Arya and then Rickon. ( Robbs dead and Sansa has no wolf...)

Jon seemed aware of what was happening but I don't think he really had ability to control it as much as he wanted to, and he certainly wasn't using it to his advantage. If he truly knew, he would have Ghost by his side at all times.

We don't know all that much about Warging but I'd say something like a death combine with Jon's natural inclination to warg could cause him to jump into an old familiar body, like Ghost, and he may not even know what he has done. Because of that the longer he stays there the less of Jon he'll become the more Ghost will take over. My prediction if what Mel saw in the fires is true he may jump to Ghost only to be brought back like Dondarrion or possibly just heal and be in a "Coma" until he realizes he can take his own body back. Man - Wolf - Man. It is possibly she was just seeing in the fire manifestation of his Warging ability. But that is a cool quote either way.

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What if he wargs into Ghost, and then Melisandre breathes life back into him (ala Beric Dondarrion). But because he had warged, he was never really "dead" so he doesn't "lose a little of himself" (memory) like Beric and Cat did. He'll pretty much just be himself. Warging essentially allows him to be revived with zero repercussions.

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I do think he'll warg into Ghost, having his second life fit for a king, and maybe do a bit of exploring North of the Wall in the Land of Always Winter. Its time for Jon's Journey to the Underworld part of his Campbellian myth cycle. Maybe learn some stuff from Bran via wolf-net or weirnet.

Bran warging Hodor is hard enough to read about. The scene with Varamyr trying to warg Thistle is horrible. It is clearly an abonimation. I hope Jon doesn't go that gray, lol.

There is also something about the Wall/cold preserving. I don't know if it is particular to Targs, but Aemon in AFFC clearly deteriorates away from the Wall and there is some acknowledgment or thought that the Wall itself was sustaining his unusually long life. The mention of the ice cells seems to portend Jon being kept in there, either in a coma or otherwise.

I think they killed the boy, but the man will wake. And hopefully kick some Bolton ass. The end.

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I am wondering if this is how we meet Howland Reed. I am purely a tv show fan but for some odd reason baught and read the last book first then the other ones.

Anyways wouldn't it be a nice time to have hims come in and save Jon. And he warns him to watch out for those Red Fire Worshipers. Jon as he mends learns about his parents. It be kinda neat if Howland Kills the entire group who are trying to kill Jon.

I assume Howland had some skill if he and Ned were the only survivors against the kingsguard.

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It be kinda neat if Howland Kills the entire group who are trying to kill Jon.

I assume Howland had some skill if he and Ned were the only survivors against the kingsguard.

I don't see this happening. Howland Reed might be a decent fighter, but he's got to be getting old now, and I think taking on four men at once might be too much for him. That said, I do hope we get to see Howland Reed, maybe when he tells Jon who his real parents are.

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  • 1 year later...

I do think he'll warg into Ghost, having his second life fit for a king, and maybe do a bit of exploring North of the Wall in the Land of Always Winter. Its time for Jon's Journey to the Underworld part of his Campbellian myth cycle. Maybe learn some stuff from Bran via wolf-net or weirnet.

Bran warging Hodor is hard enough to read about. The scene with Varamyr trying to warg Thistle is horrible. It is clearly an abonimation. I hope Jon doesn't go that gray, lol.

There is also something about the Wall/cold preserving. I don't know if it is particular to Targs, but Aemon in AFFC clearly deteriorates away from the Wall and there is some acknowledgment or thought that the Wall itself was sustaining his unusually long life. The mention of the ice cells seems to portend Jon being kept in there, either in a coma or otherwise.

I think they killed the boy, but the man will wake. And hopefully kick some Bolton ass. The end.

Well he could survive the wounds, that's not outside the realm of impossibility. I just don't see with all the foreshadowing how he could not warg into Ghost, for a time at least.

Weirnet? Lol, I like that.

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Jon will go back into his own body. "A man again" seems to pretty much say that. Plus there's the fact that, in another body, he would no longer have the Stark/Targaryen blood that will most likely come into play.


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I do think he'll warg into Ghost, having his second life fit for a king, and maybe do a bit of exploring North of the Wall in the Land of Always Winter. Its time for Jon's Journey to the Underworld part of his Campbellian myth cycle. Maybe learn some stuff from Bran via wolf-net or weirnet.

Bran warging Hodor is hard enough to read about. The scene with Varamyr trying to warg Thistle is horrible. It is clearly an abonimation. I hope Jon doesn't go that gray, lol.

There is also something about the Wall/cold preserving. I don't know if it is particular to Targs, but Aemon in AFFC clearly deteriorates away from the Wall and there is some acknowledgment or thought that the Wall itself was sustaining his unusually long life. The mention of the ice cells seems to portend Jon being kept in there, either in a coma or otherwise.

I think they killed the boy, but the man will wake. And hopefully kick some Bolton ass. The end.

Or as GRRM puts it, he must pass through the shadow.

About the Wall preserving, Jon spent a few days in the ice cells. It's noted that they know meat etc stays preserved longer, but not so much a man. Unless Jon is just meat, he won't stay alive preserved in the cells.

I also don't think the Jon knows the "rules" of warging. Bran obviously doesn't know them. We only learn about them from the Varamyr prologue.

Yup, that boy be dead. Let the man be (re)born!

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