The Others invasion

[White Neighbor]

has for Gorne's cavern :Gendel and Gorne, it is
said, ultimately resolved the matter through
trickery, making both sides disavow any desire
for the cavern, after the brothers discovered it
was a part of a greater chain of caverns that
eventually passed beneath the Wall:

[Tharvot]

The Others' invasion won't happen till the end of tWoW I'd bet. We still have several storylines to sew up before that end game comes in to play. Still have the Stannis-Bolton clash, which will happen at the beginning of the book. The attack on Mereen happens at the beginning of the book too (after which I think we can safely assume Tyrion and Dany will be hanging out if the screenshots from the show are any hint). So, we have to get those 2 things rolling and settled before we introduce a 3rd major battlefront...and I'd assume there will be other storylines cleared up (Brienne, Sansa, LF, the hound?, Jaime, etc in the Riverlands).

I'd expect the invasion to happen en force towards the end of the book and continue on in to the 1st half of the final book. The Others are the howling winds of winter and the dream of spring is the aftermath.

Just my 2 cents.

[Ser Gareth]

I think the whole Others story is the big weakness in the books simply because the rest of Westeros ignores the threat. We know communications are flowing from the Wall to the rest of Westeros (everyone seemed to know Stannis was there) and we know the Night's Watch sent out the word to the realm. And nothing. Not even dismissive talk about what a load of nonsense it is. Even if the rest of the realm didn't believe it I am sure the reaction in the North, even from the Bolton's, would be more attentive.

[Lance Corporal Underpants]

From a narrative perspective, I would expect the Others invasion to come at a time when the powers which will overthrow them (theoretically Dany, Jon & (tyrion?)) are together, but have not coalesced into an alliance. I see the invasion as a catalyst for collaboration among the powers which will ultimately push them back (for the next 8k years or so).

So I agree we will not see it priot to the last 1/3 of WoW, though we will likely get rumbles of it beforehand.

[mirthula]

Even I think we are overestimating the involvement of the dragons. Last time there was a war with the others dragons were not involved and peace was achieved. Dragons to the rescue, how many white walkers and wights are out there 1000,100000 how long will it take for three dragons to roast them all, poor dead zombies they won't have a fighting chance. I think dragons power will be neutralized somehow they won't be able to help, besides dragon like warm weather if this is the deep freeze they might lose it this will be a fight between the living and the dead. We might also be overthinking that the others are an evil force, if they are truly evil why don't they invade now more often, I mean it seems they attack for a reason or there will be a purpose to keeping humans away from them, they might not be a friendly race but that does not mean they want to annihilate man kind. I just don't see Others as an invading force, can we really imagine them moving all the way to KL just to pillage and kill people, they seem to have a purpose I don't think they care much for the rest of westeros.

I also think rest of westeros is so ignorant of the others no one knows what they are they are too busy fighting for the iron throne. Even most of the north don't care, it is not like we have people thinking OMG something is bad happening at the wall. White walkers are even a bigger myth than dragons.

Isn't it curious that Jon is 998 commander of the nights watch it is like prefect 1000 is waiting to happen. Jon is dead for now, 999 commander is appointed and killed, Jon is revived and he takes his vows again and becomes 1000 lord commander of the nights watch.

[DJE]

I think the Wall will fall somewhere in the middle, How, I have no clue, but I have thought since my first reading it had to fall eventually, and that the true threat to Westeros was the WW. Plus, once the Wall falls, there is no longer a need for the NW.

[mirthula]

From a narrative perspective, I would expect the Others invasion to come at a time when the powers which will overthrow them (theoretically Dany, Jon & (tyrion?)) are together, but have not coalesced into an alliance. I see the invasion as a catalyst for collaboration among the powers which will ultimately push them back (for the next 8k years or so).

So I agree we will not see it priot to the last 1/3 of WoW, though we will likely get rumbles of it beforehand.

Would it be shocking if the only ones involved in the battle are those that are in the North. What is Dany and Tyrion never get involved or know what is going on. Personally I don't see Tyrion a dwarf man becoming a dragon rider or fighting any big battle, his strength is his mind not fighting wars. Dany has no clue what is happening in westeros alone you think she understands the North, the culture and forces there are way beyond her understanding does she even know there is such a thing called the wall and the nights watch, she lives in some bubble. What if this is Jon's fight, what if others are invading for a purpose because they are pissed about something Jon will broker a peace deal and all will be well. Would this be too anti climatic. There are three separate big battles here, how is slavery going to be resolved in eastern continent, what is going to happen to the iron throne, what is going to happen at the wall.

[mirthula]

I think the Wall will fall somewhere in the middle, How, I have no clue, but I have thought since my first reading it had to fall eventually, and that the true threat to Westeros was the WW. Plus, once the Wall falls, there is no longer a need for the NW.

That will be brilliantly tragic and how epic to see something that stood for 8000 years to finally crumble away. Next to doom of valyria this will be next big disaster.

No I don't think NW will end, they will come back after the war is over. I just think Jon destiny is up at the wall, he will be part of the some sort of rebuilding force as lord commander it will be a new age.

[Lord Damian]

I think the Others will be at the Wall and or will begin to breach it somehow towards the end of TWOW, right at the same time when I think Dany will either land at Dragonstone, her birthplace or mainland Westeros itself.

[DJE]

That will be brilliantly tragic and how epic to see something that stood for 8000 years to finally crumble away. Next to doom of valyria this will be next big disaster.

No I don't think NW will end, they will come back after the war is over. I just think Jon destiny is up at the wall, he will be part of the some sort of rebuilding force as lord commander it will be a new age.

If they are able to destroy the WW threat by the end of ADOS, then there wouldn't be a need for the NW anylonger, Wildings are not the reason the Wall was built

[123456750]

I don't think there will be much story left to tell after Other's invasion, and I suspect that TWOW will have as much Others as ADWD had dragons.

[The Reckoner]

The invasion is nothing more than an action sequence. I expect GRRM to dolly up and show us the human response and cost of the invasion.

[Ser Gareth]

Even I think we are overestimating the involvement of the dragons. Last time there was a war with the others dragons were not involved and peace was achieved. Dragons to the rescue, how many white walkers and wights are out there 1000,100000 how long will it take for three dragons to roast them all, poor dead zombies they won't have a fighting chance. I think dragons power will be neutralized somehow they won't be able to help, besides dragon like warm weather if this is the deep freeze they might lose it this will be a fight between the living and the dead. We might also be overthinking that the others are an evil force, if they are truly evil why don't they invade now more often, I mean it seems they attack for a reason or there will be a purpose to keeping humans away from them, they might not be a friendly race but that does not mean they want to annihilate man kind. I just don't see Others as an invading force, can we really imagine them moving all the way to KL just to pillage and kill people, they seem to have a purpose I don't think they care much for the rest of westeros.

I also think rest of westeros is so ignorant of the others no one knows what they are they are too busy fighting for the iron throne. Even most of the north don't care, it is not like we have people thinking OMG something is bad happening at the wall. White walkers are even a bigger myth than dragons.

Isn't it curious that Jon is 998 commander of the nights watch it is like prefect 1000 is waiting to happen. Jon is dead for now, 999 commander is appointed and killed, Jon is revived and he takes his vows again and becomes 1000 lord commander of the nights watch.

I'm not sure Jon is going to survive the series at all. GRRM has said the finale will be bittersweet and I personally do believe in R+L=J. My prediction is that the Targ bloodline will become extinct at the end of the series because the prophecy will have been fulfilled. I suppose it could be fitting that the last Targ is the 1000th Commander but I also think there is a chance that there will never be a 1000th Commander because the Wall will no longer exist and because the destruction of the Others means one is no longer required.

[mirthula]

I'm not sure Jon is going to survive the series at all. GRRM has said the finale will be bittersweet and I personally do believe in R+L=J. My prediction is that the Targ bloodline will become extinct at the end of the series because the prophecy will have been fulfilled. I suppose it could be fitting that the last Targ is the 1000th Commander but I also think there is a chance that there will never be a 1000th Commander because the Wall will no longer exist and because the destruction of the Others means one is no longer required.

I just don't see george killing of an entire race. I think that is how he describes them they are a race of their own and they are a part of this world and maybe they are not purely evil. It would be convenient to say that and have an epic fight like a superhero movie good guys versus those dead thingies that terrifies everyone. Martin seems to love complex stuff we can't explain. I don't know there is that whole thing about winter and how they seemed to be linked to the coming of the cold.

You are right about the targ race being eliminated. What might happen is that Jon might find out he is a targ but very few people will know about this secret because it doesn't matter anymore as a Targ Jon is not bound to benefit from anything, truth is he loves Ned and the stark family, they raised him protected him. I think Jon will live but will be legitimized as a stark and continue to serve the north if not as lord commander then atleast help the wildings, so him being a secret targ just will be lost in time and forgotten.

Dany might ride off her dragons to the smoking sea to the lost Valyria and will never be seen again, leaving us to imagine what happened to her.

So yeah that would be sad Targ line is over, and with that the pure blooded Valyrian dynasty would end.

[Ser Gareth]

I just don't see george killing of an entire race. I think that is how he describes them they are a race of their own and they are a part of this world and maybe they are not purely evil. It would be convenient to say that and have an epic fight like a superhero movie good guys versus those dead thingies that terrifies everyone. Martin seems to love complex stuff we can't explain. I don't know there is that whole thing about winter and how they seemed to be linked to the coming of the cold.

You are right about the targ race being eliminated. What might happen is that Jon might find out he is a targ but very few people will know about this secret because it doesn't matter anymore as a Targ Jon is not bound to benefit from anything, truth is he loves Ned and the stark family, they raised him protected him. I think Jon will live but will be legitimized as a stark and continue to serve the north if not as lord commander then atleast help the wildings, so him being a secret targ just will be lost in time and forgotten.

Dany might ride off her dragons to the smoking sea to the lost Valyria and will never be seen again, leaving us to imagine what happened to her.

So yeah that would be sad Targ line is over, and with that the pure blooded Valyrian dynasty would end.

I think the part in bold is also a myth. The deeper we get into the story the more repetitive, formulaic and unbelievable it is becoming. The story has always been about the fate of humanity in Westeros and how man can be its own worst enemy and ignore the perils right in front of its face. Many of the characters in the books do have great depths for a novel but ultimately the story is nothing more than a twisted fairy tale and the coming of a new age of heroes (GRRM has said the story ultimately is about the kids).

[SevasTra82]

I think the part in bold is also a myth. The deeper we get into the story the more repetitive, formulaic and unbelievable it is becoming. The story has always been about the fate of humanity in Westeros and how man can be its own worst enemy and ignore the perils right in front of its face. Many of the characters in the books do have great depths for a novel but ultimately the story is nothing more than a twisted fairy tale and the coming of a new age of heroes (GRRM has said the story ultimately is about the kids).

Totally agree.

I think time and popularity have spun GRRM into people thinking he's some kind of mythical writer who has spun a web of something so complex that nobody can ever figure it out. When in reality, the story of ASoIaF is pretty simple. It's a "coming of age" story about the Stark kids.

GRRM has created a very detailed and vivid world, and he's a master at dropping hints and clues into his books, many in which people (due to time) have figured out already. The problem is, after people piece together and figure out future events, they take the answer to the extreme, creating some weird, twisted paradox theory that makes NO sense, because they refuse to believe that they actually figured it out in the first place. Then they say "Oh, that can't be true, because it's too obvious...it must be THIS crackpot theory!".

It's like people now saying there is an Ice Dragon frozen in the wall. This has NEVER been hinted in the books, but people would rather believe GRRM has some "masterly woven plot line" involving an ice dragon because of the childrens book he (re)released last year. It's this kind of stuff that is silly to me. People over-think themselves and try to create paradoxes where there simply isn't any.

[jet199]

I think the whole Others story is the big weakness in the books simply because the rest of Westeros ignores the threat. We know communications are flowing from the Wall to the rest of Westeros (everyone seemed to know Stannis was there) and we know the Night's Watch sent out the word to the realm. And nothing. Not even dismissive talk about what a load of nonsense it is. Even if the rest of the realm didn't believe it I am sure the reaction in the North, even from the Bolton's, would be more attentive.

It's because the war and politics is so distracting. Even Jon starts to ignore the threat of Others during ADWD and starts putting his resources into Stannis's claim and rescuing Arya and this is after he nearly got killed himself by wights. When your family has been murdered it's quite hard to see any other problem as more important than that and nearly every person in Westeros is in that position at the moment. The other problem is that the Others aren't showing signs that they want to invade yet, they are just herding wildlings.

[Ser Gareth]

It's because the war and politics is so distracting. Even Jon starts to ignore the threat of Others during ADWD and starts putting his resources into Stannis's claim and rescuing Arya and this is after he nearly got killed himself by wights. When your family has been murdered it's quite hard to see any other problem as more important than that and nearly every person in Westeros is in that position at the moment. The other problem is that the Others aren't showing signs that they want to invade yet, they are just herding wildlings.

I disagree on this scale. There were survivors from the fist of the first men. Jon has killed a wight. Sam has killed an Other. A realistic reaction would be everyone on the wall would be in a constant state of nervousness. The boogie man stories they were told as children are true and they have witnessed it first hand. They'd be doing a lot more to get their message across by now and those in the North would receive a raven stating the Others have returned and there is no way they'd think to themselves "The Others will have to wait because of other problems we have!". They'd at least send an envoy to find out what on earth was happening on the Wall.

[Voice]

Considering the state of the Night's Watch at this moment, and the change in season, no time seems better than the present. I think it will come with the Prologue. But rather than a loud clangor of steel on steel, or the scream of steel on an ice sword, it will be completely silent.

The Others will know of the Black Gate, and use it.

[The Sword of the Darkness]

I'm not the first to come up with this idea, but seriously I would be just fine if the Others wiped out all of Westeros. The 4 Starks and Jon are the only characters I like, if they all survived somehow and everyone else perished in Westeros from an Others' massive attack, I could honestly live with that. Sadly that probably won't be the outcome.