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Valyrian steel in the Iron Thone (kinda crack pot)


dragsaw

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First we are missing three sword (at least) and that the "Iron" Throne is still sharp after an extremely long time in open air contact with human skin etc at this point they will be blunted and rusted as hell, unless there Valyrian steel, magic or a guy comes and sharpens them but that seems odd as for hundreds (to lazy to look up how long) even maintained they will still go "bad"

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Who knows if Balerion's fire could affect Valyrian steel. Or for that matter, if there were no spells involved in shaping the Iron Throne.

It seems to me that Valyrian steel is usually distinctive enough that a whole sword in the Iron Throne would be noticeable, though, unless it was degraded in the making (and therefore no longer really Valyrian steel) or perhaps if the whole throne was made of that same steel (a real possibility).

In any case, I don't expect the edges of the Throne to be very sharp even during Aegon I's reign. It is, after all, something people were supposed to be sitting on for hours at a time.

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**OR!**:

It is possible some of the swords in the Iron Throne were Valyrian steel (many ancient, wealthy and noble families were defeated by Aegon I)... but Valyrian weapons would likely have been kept as prizes rather than melted into the chair - they're not so plentiful: the Targaryens only owned two).

However, We know that the Iron Throne was forged by the fires of the breath of Balerion the Black Dread, Aegon the Conquerer's dragon. We know that magick and dragonflame play some part in the forging/formation of Valyrian steel. There is the slight hint that the Iron Throne possesses a touch of magick with a reputation/myth that it cuts those not meant to sit it/unworthy (NB: Blood magick AND King's blood).

Sooooo, Even if the original swords were not of Valyrian steel I think it is highly possible that they were turned into Valyrian steel. The Iron Throne is a thicket of steel, a mangle of many many swords. So in amongst them I would not be complete astounded to find some Valyrian steel.

If one were to harvest/extract some Valyrian steel from the Iron Throne I imagine it would have to be re-smelted and shaped as Tobho Motte did with 'Ice'. If there are veins (forgive the irony/metaphor/pun) of Valyrian steel buried within or slotted into the Iron Throne, how many swords/weapons could be forged from such a quantity of Valyrian Steel I wonder...

As to the sharpness of the edges of the Iron Throne, unless a blade in its entirety and unity were transmuted into Valyrian steel, blunt edges are to be expected. Valyrian steel KEEPS its edge for centuries, but it must first be given one (skilfully forged). I don't think one sits directly on a swords edge (it's meant to be uncomfortable, not outright deadly/murderous), but many points and edges jut out and it is easy to catch a limb or a garment on them.

But it is a valid point made above: With it's distinctive look, wouldn't the presence of Valyrian steel in the Iron Throne have been noted? Well, would it? There are a lot of swords and many of them are buried between other swords, perhaps with only a sliver visible to the outside observer. And the steel of the collective sword cache served as magick fodder, then the Valyrian steel may be buried *inside* the ordinary steel, even within a given sword of the throne. It would need to be purified out.

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This is pretty daffy....but quite cool. So do you see a future where whoever is holding the iron throne and trying to combat the comming forces of the others tries to "melt down" The iron throne to make weapons of dragonsteel capable of combating them?

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...However, We know that the Iron Throne was forged by the fires of the breath of Balerion the Black Dread, Aegon the Conquerer's dragon. We know that magick and dragonflame play some part in the forging/formation of Valyrian steel. There is the slight hint that the Iron Throne possesses a touch of magick with a reputation/myth that it cuts those not meant to sit it/unworthy (NB: Blood magick AND King's blood).

Sooooo, Even if the original swords were not of Valyrian steel I think it is highly possible that they were turned into Valyrian steel. The Iron Throne is a thicket of steel, a mangle of many many swords...

First of all, it's the Iron Throne and not the Steel Throne. But you got me to thinking... You don't simply melt some iron and have it magically turn into steel. Steel swords where a level of technology advancement from iron (about 500 years in the real world from iron weapons to steel, give or take a few centuries). Valaryin/Dragon/Spell-Forged steel is yet another advancement from normal steel. We know the old kings of winter had iron (not steel) swords, and not sure from Aegon's day, but I always assumed since it was the "Iron" throne, that the swords were made of iron. Which also doesn't make much sense, because by now it would certainly be the Rusty Throne of Tetanus. Hmmm

But when was Westeros introduced to (or discovered) steel? The advantages of steel vs. iron are historically noteworthy, yet I can remember no mention from the canon of when steel weapons became commonplace in Westros as opposed to iron...

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First of all, it's the Iron Throne and not the Steel Throne. But you got me to thinking... You don't simply melt some iron and have it magically turn into steel. Steel swords where a level of technology advancement from iron (about 500 years in the real world from iron weapons to steel, give or take a few centuries). Valaryin/Dragon/Spell-Forged steel is yet another advancement from normal steel. We know the old kings of winter had iron (not steel) swords, and not sure from Aegon's day, but I always assumed since it was the "Iron" throne, that the swords were made of iron. Which also doesn't make much sense, because by now it would certainly be the Rusty Throne of Tetanus. Hmmm

But when was Westeros introduced to (or discovered) steel? The advantages of steel vs. iron are historically noteworthy, yet I can remember no mention from the canon of when steel weapons became commonplace in Westros as opposed to iron...

Yes but steel is primarily made from iron and other alloys.

From AWOIAF...

"Have you ever seen the Iron Throne? The barbs along the back, the ribbons of twisted steel, the jagged ends of swords and knives all tangled up and melted? It is not a comfortable seat ser. Aerys cut himself so often men took to calling him King Scab, and Maegor the Cruel was murdered in that chair. By that chair, to hear some tell it. It is not a seat where a man can rest as ease. Ofttimes I wonder why my brothers wanted it so desperately".[3]

-Stannis Baratheon to Davos Seaworth on the Iron Throne

It's made of steel swords, but Iron Throne sounds better than Steel Throne. I suppose it could've been iron swords and Balerion's fire turned it into steel as well perhaps.

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...However, We know that the Iron Throne was forged by the fires of the breath of Balerion the Black Dread, Aegon the Conquerer's dragon. We know that magick and dragonflame play some part in the forging/formation of Valyrian steel. There is the slight hint that the Iron Throne possesses a touch of magick with a reputation/myth that it cuts those not meant to sit it/unworthy (NB: Blood magick AND King's blood)...

Off topic, but... I was always struck by the idea that Jaime sat on the throne, apparently without harm, until Ned came in to the throne room and stared him down. I can't come up with a plausible scenerio where Jaime could wind up ruling Westeros at this point. But... wouldn't that be some wild and wicked foreshadowing.

Ummm... Carry on. :)

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Yes but steel is primarily made from iron and other alloys.

From AWOIAF...

"Have you ever seen the Iron Throne? The barbs along the back, the ribbons of twisted steel, the jagged ends of swords and knives all tangled up and melted? It is not a comfortable seat ser. Aerys cut himself so often men took to calling him King Scab, and Maegor the Cruel was murdered in that chair. By that chair, to hear some tell it. It is not a seat where a man can rest as ease. Ofttimes I wonder why my brothers wanted it so desperately".[3]

-Stannis Baratheon to Davos Seaworth on the Iron Throne

It's made of steel swords, but Iron Throne sounds better than Steel Throne. I suppose it could've been iron swords and Balerion's fire turned it into steel as well perhaps.

Thanks, that quote clears up the bit about the Iron Throne. Steel is actually made of mostly iron and a little carbon and smaller amounts of other materials, but primarily iron + carbon = steel. So it is made of steel swords, and Steel Throne doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Still doesn't clear up my questions as to how and when they went from iron to steel, but that tidbit is really irrelevant to the story in the present.

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I don't see why there can't be Valyrian steel swords in the Iron Throne. The Targaryens did have Valyrian steel swords in the past so who's to say that they didn't forge the Iron Throne with some spare Valyrian steel swords, to maybe make it indestructible?

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it could be that dragon fire enhances the iron, burning the iron and melting the swords together. It could provide a coating to keep the throne from disintegrading. I personally dont think there would be VS in the throne, its been there for a long time after all.

oh and also note that the throne was forged using the swords from the enemies that Aegon I Targaryen defeated. Does his enemies own valyrian steel??

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I don't see why there can't be Valyrian steel swords in the Iron Throne. The Targaryens did have Valyrian steel swords in the past so who's to say that they didn't forge the Iron Throne with some spare Valyrian steel swords, to maybe make it indestructible?

I just can't buy it. Valyrian steel is always noteable and noticeable in the story. Just seems like over hundreds of years if there were a V-sword mixed in there here and there, it would have become at least semi-common knowledge.

But along that vein, do we know if Westeros had Valyrian steel blades pre-Targaryen?

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it could be that dragon fire enhances the iron, burning the iron and melting the swords together. It could provide a coating to keep the throne from disintegrading. I personally dont think there would be VS in the throne, its been there for a long time after all.

oh and also note that the throne was forged using the swords from the enemies that Aegon I Targaryen defeated. Does his enemies own valyrian steel??

A coating of what? I mean, if you coat steel with steel, you have steel. Protective coatings are of a different material than that they are protecting. For fun, I'm going to say they are magic coated blades, and the magic coating preserves against all corrosives.

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I just can't buy it. Valyrian steel is always noteable and noticeable in the story. Just seems like over hundreds of years if there were a V-sword mixed in there here and there, it would have become at least semi-common knowledge.

But along that vein, do we know if Westeros had Valyrian steel blades pre-Targaryen?

There are several Valyrian swords that have been in Westeros before Aegons conquest. Longclaw and Ice are mentioned to be over 400 years old.

The secrets to making new valyrian steel, where lost in the Doom of Valyria. By the time the iron throne was made, valyrian steel was an invaluable and finite resource. The Targaryens woud have had to have a very good reason to use these swords for the throne, and i haven't heard one yet.

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First of all, it's the Iron Throne and not the Steel Throne. But you got me to thinking... You don't simply melt some iron and have it magically turn into steel. Steel swords where a level of technology advancement from iron (about 500 years in the real world from iron weapons to steel, give or take a few centuries). Valaryin/Dragon/Spell-Forged steel is yet another advancement from normal steel. We know the old kings of winter had iron (not steel) swords, and not sure from Aegon's day, but I always assumed since it was the "Iron" throne, that the swords were made of iron. Which also doesn't make much sense, because by now it would certainly be the Rusty Throne of Tetanus. Hmmm

But when was Westeros introduced to (or discovered) steel? The advantages of steel vs. iron are historically noteworthy, yet I can remember no mention from the canon of when steel weapons became commonplace in Westros as opposed to iron...

The first Men used Iron, the Andels brought Steel to Westeross. then came the Targs, so Steel has been around for a long time before the Targs.

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The first Men used Iron, the Andels brought Steel to Westeross. then came the Targs, so Steel has been around for a long time before the Targs.

Ah, that's my missing link. Thanks for the info... my memory isn't what it used to never be.

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it could be, might be interesting. but it is called the iron throne and not the valrian throne. i believe the myth behind it is they melted all the swords. of the defeated nobles, knights, and soldiers so there might be a valyrian sword or two in there who knows.

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  • 2 weeks later...

First of all, it's the Iron Throne and not the Steel Throne. But you got me to thinking... You don't simply melt some iron and have it magically turn into steel. Steel swords where a level of technology advancement from iron (about 500 years in the real world from iron weapons to steel, give or take a few centuries). Valaryin/Dragon/Spell-Forged steel is yet another advancement from normal steel. We know the old kings of winter had iron (not steel) swords, and not sure from Aegon's day, but I always assumed since it was the "Iron" throne, that the swords were made of iron. Which also doesn't make much sense, because by now it would certainly be the Rusty Throne of Tetanus. Hmmm

But when was Westeros introduced to (or discovered) steel? The advantages of steel vs. iron are historically noteworthy, yet I can remember no mention from the canon of when steel weapons became commonplace in Westros as opposed to iron...

Correct me if I am wrong, but the word "steel" is used but rarely in the novels. More often it is applied to knights than swords, as in describing a knight as "The True Steel" (Barristan Selmy loves this phrase). Primarily the term "steel" is used for Valyrian steel. Can anyone one find a quote where a weapon, not of Valyrian Steel, is described as "steel"??

Usually weapons are described as iron.

But this not entirely problematic, because even if swords are made of steel they are, in a sense, still made of iron, just processed iron (steel). Iron and steel weapons probably exist in Westeros, with steel just being that much more expensive. The Iron Throne may have been made from the iron swords with the steel ones kept for use, but that doesn't sit well with the Iron Throne as a prestige symbol.

More likely is that there is iron and steel in the Throne. Though kings have cut themselves on the Iron Throne, and some even said to have been killed by it (thus), I cannot recall any tale that suggests the symptoms of tetanus. The two primary candidates would be Aerys II and Maegor the Cruel, bot horrific rulers, possibly mad, and continually cutting themselves on the Throne. Aerys maybe have died before symptoms showed, and Maegor was likely infertile (anything else?).

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I thought this post from Tze in the "The Iron Throne is Screwed" thread a worthwhile inclusion for this thread on the symbolism introduced by Donal Noye:

I've always found it fascinating that the throne is called the "Iron Throne". Not the Steel Throne (given that it would have been forged out of steel swords, not iron swords), not the Dragon Throne, not even the Sword Throne---the Iron Throne. Remember Donal Noye's description of Stannis? "Stannis is pure iron, black and hard and strong, but brittle, the way iron gets. He'll break before he bends." Couldn't the same implications be found in the institution of the Iron Throne? It's hard and strong, but brittle, and it will break before it bends. And circumstances have been forcing it to try and bend.

So what is Valyrian steel, and how does it relate to kingship.

Aemon the Targaryen told both Aegon V the Unlikely and Jon Snow to "Kill the boy and let the man be Born". Is Valyrian Steel the "mature", well-worked and superior form of iron/steel?

In this spirit one digs deep within (possibly destroying the original form) to find the "True Steel" and the higher purpose or merely the treasure or divine favour.

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  • 2 years later...

it could be that dragon fire enhances the iron, burning the iron and melting the swords together. It could provide a coating to keep the throne from disintegrading.

I thought of this today but did a google search instead of starting my own thread. This idea is actually quite cool. It's the Iron Throne and we know (or are told):

cold dead things that hated fire, iron, the touch of the sun, and every creature with warm blood

The way I look at it:

-Iron can withhold the power of dragonflame

-Dragonflame coatings create Wight killing swords. Dragon flame coatings of an Iron and Obsidian/Dragonglass mix create Valyrian Steel. Add in the rare remnants of a comet/moon, you've got Lightbringer (Dawn). The Lightbringger story: Water forge (Iron), Flame forge (Dragonglass added), Nissa Nissa (part of the fallen twin moons)

Also OT: If that's the case, consider that there is a small percentage of iron in seawater on Earth. Maybe in this universe there is quite more. It's also how a certain sea-faring island culture came to be. And maybe in certain areas, high iron content can cause greyscale. Cold damp climates are highly susceptible to greyscale in this universe.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The first Men used Iron, the Andels brought Steel to Westeross. then came the Targs, so Steel has been around for a long time before the Targs.

I thought the First Men used bronze. Hence the Royce's bronze armor, which is a nod to their family history (of the First Men).

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