Once Upon a Time (Its very own 2nd thread)

[Alayne's Shadow.]

At this point, I just wish there was more Regina. She was barely in this episode. I do like Hook and Emma, but I'm feeling unbalance in this portion of the season.

I used to really like Hook but somewhere along the way and I can't remember when I started not being able to stand him, wtf.

The problem, I've came to learn, is that the writers push the audience too much to like him, which will always create an anti-movement. I like Hook, but I like him considerably less when I have to see a lot of him, no Robin, barely Snow, 40 seconds of Regina (Two scenes cut, why?), and everyone else just being crammed in regards to him. I'm definitely Outlaw Queen, so I'm just a bit frustrated by this.

[eyenon15]

I'll second that as well. More Regina, please.

[Warg Arry]

The problem with Hook is that they never managed to give him a genuine character arc ever since he gave up on getting his revenge on Rumple. He fell in love with Emma (or became obsessed with her, depending on where you stand) and all he does now is follow her around and try to convince her (and David) that he is good enough for her. That's it. But to convince her, there hasn't been any moment of regret for his dark past, of genuine remorse and apologizing for those he wronged, of trying to do good for any reason other than get into her pants, or anything. He simply stands there looking handsome, always on her shadow, always telling her how he's changed for her, how he's a good guy that knows her better than she knows herself, then there's some manpain and pouting, and then the cycle begins again. And that's it.

So, Hook right now is clearly not a hero, and I have serious doubts he'll ever earn the title, since they don't seem about to write him into a redemption arc, but he's convinced himself and the Charmings (and many viewers) that he's not a villain either (and, let's be honest, even when he was one he was never that competent, just a reasonably good sidekick). He's just there, looking hot in leather and taking up way too much screentime for someone who hasn't got any character development in over a year.

You know what. I completely agree.

I think for a while I got complacent about his existence in this world. I guess I felt like. If he is on our screens and I want to keep watching. I'd have to find peace with that.

But after yet another episode of Everybody Loves Hook. Featuring Hook and a few of the Storybrooke side characters (at least that's what it feels like.) I felt myself getting really annoyed at his existence once again. And I remembered how I felt when he was originally on our screens and how much I wanted him to die.

He was a pawn then. That the "baddies" captured and made him do their evil bidding. And now he is basically back to the same role.

The only thing I hope is that they have realised that Hook hasn't got much substance to him and have now reset him (so to speak) so he can have an actual redemption/character arc. Otherwise I doubt I'd miss him if he disappeared.

Except they'll have him do something noble then die. And Emma will continue to think she is poison (Gah! I hope not)

[Theda Baratheon]

I'm also really upset at the Regina screen time being so little. Cutting her scenes!?! WTF?? Whyyyyy - she's the best.

[Kobayashi Maru]

Wow I am 100% sure I've watched this episode...like copy pasted from few seasons back...Gold makes no sense at all...well to be fair he makes perfect sense if one pretends last season and a half...or more...never happened.

I am going to state unpopular opinion on this thread but if there was no Hook to look at, this episode would be waste of time. I mean his outfit change was :leer: :drool: and other emoticons :) I liked the date,I wish Emma had more nice moments.

And for the record I don't see what is wrong with acting like you're in love if you are. If you're not acting 15 when you fall for someone you're not doing it right. Guilty of being silly here <raises hand> and couldn't be prouder.

Only problem I have with Hook is the same I have with REgina and Gold...their plots are being repeated over and over again.

Right now I'm very interested why is Knave of hearts here. Last I saw him he got his happy ending <no pun intended> so why is he here? Did something change? If so,that means someone can change story endings and that means he might be important for operation Mongoose. Maybe he has some information.

One thing came to my mind while typing this,what if Dark One was the one to write the book,or to at least influence it in some way. So far he's the only one who's powerful enough...that we've seen. I am talking about original DO,but who knows.

The problem with Hook is that they never managed to give him a genuine character arc ever since he gave up on getting his revenge on Rumple. He fell in love with Emma (or became obsessed with her, depending on where you stand) and all he does now is follow her around and try to convince her (and David) that he is good enough for her. That's it. But to convince her, there hasn't been any moment of regret for his dark past, of genuine remorse and apologizing for those he wronged, of trying to do good for any reason other than get into her pants, or anything. He simply stands there looking handsome, always on her shadow, always telling her how he's changed for her, how he's a good guy that knows her better than she knows herself, then there's some manpain and pouting, and then the cycle begins again. And that's it.

None of the villains did. That's not writers' MO. They just waltz in and they are now good...lazy writing imho. I have the same feeling (especially with how the season is going) the same cycle is repeating with every single one of them. Even Regina for couple of episodes. They just have no idea what to do with them after the redemption.

I'm also really upset at the Regina screen time being so little. Cutting her scenes!?! WTF?? Whyyyyy - she's the best.

Simple,they have noooo idea what to do with her. They need her for big moments and in between they are clueless.

[Elba the Intoner]

I pretty much agree with most of the comments I've seen so far. I liked Hook at first (but I liked Neal better) but as others have pointed out Hook is getting too much focus and they don't seem to know what to do with him or really any of the main characters. Henry, Snow and Regina have been barely in this season at all so far, and even Emma seems somewhat marginalized though it looks like they are tying her in to the Snow Queen story somehow. I guess what I am most puzzled about is that it seems like they are bringing in way too many different storylines and they can't seem to focus on any one for too long. There's the Frozen story, the Snow Queen which is somewhat tied to Frozen but seems to be separate too, the sorcerer's apprentice thing now and also this other storyline with Will and something to do with Alice in Wonderland I guess?

Someone earlier mentioned the dropped storylines from past seasons and this got me thinking about something that has been bothering me for a while. What happened to Mulan? She was supposed to be with Robin Hood and the merry men the last we saw of her but then she didn't show up with them in Storybrook when they all were brought over in the last curse.

[Theda Baratheon]

I used to really fancy Hook but now I dont even like him as eye candy anymore :(

[Lady Octarina]

Okay, this has to be the most accurate recap I've ever read. :rofl:

Remember when the people involved in this show cared enough to deliver a good story? Yeah...

Someone earlier mentioned the dropped storylines from past seasons and this got me thinking about something that has been bothering me for a while. What happened to Mulan? She was supposed to be with Robin Hood and the merry men the last we saw of her but then she didn't show up with them in Storybrook when they all were brought over in the last curse.

Mulan got a better role in "Believe" and they seem to have way too many characters now to bring her back, even though that show was cancelled. I've read that Aurora and her baby are appearing again soon, so maybe Mulan will, as well?

And for the record I don't see what is wrong with acting like you're in love if you are. If you're not acting 15 when you fall for someone you're not doing it right.

It's fine to act like you're in love, the problem is that Emma has turned into a complete different character. Season one Emma would never wear a dress like that one; the whole situation was written and acted in a way that made it look like she was going to prom, which is ridiculous for a 30-year-old. Damn, she was almost giggling at various points, and all the while Snow was going "tell me more, tell me more"? I do hope the writers realize "Grease" is not a good model to aspire to when writing romance...

Right now I'm very interested why is Knave of hearts here. Last I saw him he got his happy ending <no pun intended> so why is he here? Did something change? If so,that means someone can change story endings and that means he might be important for operation Mongoose. Maybe he has some information.

I read somewhere that he's being on OUAT has more to do with his contract with ABC stipulating they they him to be regularly appearing on one of their shows, and since OUATiW was cancelled, this was the obvious alternative. I don't know if they intend to keep him around for long, or just until they place him in a different show, but Socha is a series regular now. My guess is, from his actions last episode, that his TL (Ana, is that it?) is either dead, or he believes that to be the case, and his arc in Storybrooke goes from there. Unless it's set before OUATiW? No idea how the timeline works here.

None of the villains did. That's not writers' MO. They just waltz in and they are now good...lazy writing imho. I have the same feeling (especially with how the season is going) the same cycle is repeating with every single one of them. Even Regina for couple of episodes. They just have no idea what to do with them after the redemption.

Simple,they have noooo idea what to do with her. They need her for big moments and in between they are clueless.

As I said above, that's true for Rumple and Hook, but not for Regina. She's the only character who has been getting consistent character development since the second half of season one. We've seen her go from distant but controlling/possessive mother to giving her son space and a freedom she didn't have to give him to be around his birth family. But back then, in season two, she was doing it all to get Henry's love and confidence, so when Cora manipulated her into failing, she let herself be influenced once again and attempted the easy alternative, which she never had a chance to execute because she was kidnapped, tortured, and forced to face the consequences of her past actions. Right after that, she saved Storybrooke, went on a journey surrounded by her former enemies to save her son, became their ally, had to give up what she saw as her only chance of happiness (the reason why she cast the curse in the first place) to save a town filled with people who despised her. Went back to the Enchanted Forest, a place that held nothing but bad memories and was a symbol of her eternal misery, and, even without hope of ever seeing her son again, and while clearly depressed, suicidal, even, still found the strength to once again ally herself with her former nemesis, but this time without the perspective of any advantage to herself (on the contrary, that castle and the presence of Snow White would only serve as a constant reminder of everything she lost, and a very cruel way of making her feel in her skin what it was like for Snow to be parted from her daughter because of her), just because it was the right thing to do. She came to accept her past, and know she was no longer the same woman known as the Evil Queen, became friends, even family with Snow, who she protected with her life more than once, helped her cast the curse, held Snow White's heart in her hand and just did as she asked and shared it in half, when she had probably dreamed about crushing it for decades, that idea wan't even a temptation to her anymore! Then they returned to Storybrooke, and she could see Henry again, but he didn't remember her, and she had to deal with it without falling back into her old habits, without even feeling tempted to do so. In the meantime, she opened herself to the possibility of love again (a door she had closed 40 years ago when she didn't go to that tavern), and came to accept who her mother was and get rid of any hold Cora still might have had over her. She later got Henry back, and saved everyone once again, and using true love's kiss and light magic! She, the woman with the blackened heart! Seeing everything that had happened to her and how important the faith people had in her was, she chose to offer her sister a second chance, a chance to repent and start over, like she did, instead of simply killing her, as she would in the old days. Just like she earned Snow's forgiveness, she asked for Belle's forgiveness and gave her the dagger, the ultimate gesture of trust and giving up any pretense of having power over the most powerful man i the world, a man who had a lot of responsibility in turning her into the monster she became, and she didn't even consider getting revenge. And after all that, just as she thought she had finally gotten her happy ending, she had once again to face the consequence of her past actions in the form of Marian's return and, despite loving Robin and knowing that he loves her, she accepts his choice to stick to his code of honor and twice, when she has the chance to let someone else kill the woman standing in the way of her happiness, she saves her, because that's the person she is now, someone who will save her worst enemy even though it will bring her unbearable heartache just because that is the right thing to do and she wouldn't be able to live with herself if she did otherwise. (okay, so she fantasized once about killing Marian, but let's be honest, who doesn't fantasize of less-than-honorable actions when angry? the important thing is she was strong enough to resist that temptation) And now she's trying to find a way to ensure her happiness that doesn't hurt anyone else.

Honestly, if that isn't redemption and character development, I don't know what is. :dunno:

[Theda Baratheon]

Bravo!!! Excellent post. <3 Regina is the best.

[Elba the Intoner]

Okay, this has to be the most accurate recap I've ever read. :rofl:

OMG! Thank you so much for this! It was hilarious, especially the comments from the evil hand. Thanks also for the info on Mulan. I guessed the actress left the show but I just figured they might have mentioned the character at some point. Like when last year the merry men showed up in the wood in Storybrooke they could have thrown in a line about her. I doubt she'll resurface on this show but you mentioning that Aurora will show up again with her baby has got me thinking about another question I had about this. Did it seem like Mulan was really in love with Aurora at the end before she left?

[eyenon15]

Am I the only one that really hated Mulans costume.

[Theda Baratheon]

Do any of you read the tv.com regular reviews of this show???? If you found that tumblr post hilarious (which I did) you'll love tv.com review's this show, I have to check them out after every episode and have a hearty chuckle.

Checking out Rocky Road's now

[Corvinus85]

My take on the season so far:

Right now it seems that this season doesn’t quite have a direction. Multiple plots or sub-plots have been started, and their ending is murky at best. However, this is not a bad thing. If you don’t count the introduction of Marion and Elsa, last season’s finale felt like a series finale. Everyone had gotten their happy ending. Only this show has always been a good mix of fairy tales and real life, and in real life there is no such thing as living happily ever after.

With the defeat of the Wicked Witch, the story came to a point where, like in most other fantasy stories, the happy ending had been finally achieved, the good guys had won, and the potentially apocalyptic disaster had been averted. Personally, though I’ve always been interested in what happens after. For example, what happened after the aliens in Independence Day had been defeated, how did the reconstruction process go (we might actually find out). This season right now feels a bit like an aftermath story. The Charmings have won their kingdom, but now they find they have to rule it, not just enjoy life until the end. Regina and Rumple are still affected by their villainous past, and in Rumple’s case it doesn’t look like he is ready to shed his. Emma has finally accepted that Storybrooke is her home, but just making out with the guy she was always going to end up with doesn’t mean smooth sailing from there. (pun intended)

Yes, they added more characters, including a new villain, but that has more to do with the writers latching on Frozen’s popularity, rather than a need to introduce a powerful new villain that would once again turn everyone’s lives upside down. And so far the Snow Queen, despite her power, doesn’t quite feel like she belongs in the same venue as Peter Pan, Cora, The Wicked Witch, and our beloved main villains turned apparent heroes.

I counsel patience; each character will once again get his/her due. And if the Snow Queen and Elsa don’t prove to be satisfying characters, there is always Maleficent in the second half of the season.

Now as to some of the speculation regarding Rumple and the Sorcerer’s Hat, and Operation Mongoose, I have a feeling that both schemes have the same goal, to change the story. But while Regina is trying to be a bit of a detective and find and confront the writer, Rumple may be betting on having enough magical power to forcibly change the story. But that would put him at odds with all the other magical characters in Storybrooke, which can only end in failure for Rumple.

As to whom the writer might be, I have two thoughts:

1) Remember August who eventually turned into a real boy? He had a typewriter with him when we first met him. What happened to it? It may be that Pinocchio/August will return.

2) I don’t know what rights Disney holds, and though the dominant characters were directly inspired by the Disney cartoons, their popular origin can be found in the tales collected by the Brothers Grimm. NBC found success by creating its own Grimm version, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see ABC/Disney come up with another version of a Grimm.

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I'll second that as well. More Regina, please.

I'm also really upset at the Regina screen time being so little. Cutting her scenes!?! WTF?? Whyyyyy - she's the best.

I was so upset I've even felt compelled to change my avatar to Regina. It's sad when we have two minutes per episode.

As I said above, that's true for Rumple and Hook, but not for Regina. She's the only character who has been getting consistent character development since the second half of season one. We've seen her go from distant but controlling/possessive mother to giving her son space and a freedom she didn't have to give him to be around his birth family. But back then, in season two, she was doing it all to get Henry's love and confidence, so when Cora manipulated her into failing, she let herself be influenced once again and attempted the easy alternative, which she never had a chance to execute because she was kidnapped, tortured, and forced to face the consequences of her past actions. Right after that, she saved Storybrooke, went on a journey surrounded by her former enemies to save her son, became their ally, had to give up what she saw as her only chance of happiness (the reason why she cast the curse in the first place) to save a town filled with people who despised her. Went back to the Enchanted Forest, a place that held nothing but bad memories and was a symbol of her eternal misery, and, even without hope of ever seeing her son again, and while clearly depressed, suicidal, even, still found the strength to once again ally herself with her former nemesis, but this time without the perspective of any advantage to herself (on the contrary, that castle and the presence of Snow White would only serve as a constant reminder of everything she lost, and a very cruel way of making her feel in her skin what it was like for Snow to be parted from her daughter because of her), just because it was the right thing to do. She came to accept her past, and know she was no longer the same woman known as the Evil Queen, became friends, even family with Snow, who she protected with her life more than once, helped her cast the curse, held Snow White's heart in her hand and just did as she asked and shared it in half, when she had probably dreamed about crushing it for decades, that idea wan't even a temptation to her anymore! Then they returned to Storybrooke, and she could see Henry again, but he didn't remember her, and she had to deal with it without falling back into her old habits, without even feeling tempted to do so. In the meantime, she opened herself to the possibility of love again (a door she had closed 40 years ago when she didn't go to that tavern), and came to accept who her mother was and get rid of any hold Cora still might have had over her. She later got Henry back, and saved everyone once again, and using true love's kiss and light magic! She, the woman with the blackened heart! Seeing everything that had happened to her and how important the faith people had in her was, she chose to offer her sister a second chance, a chance to repent and start over, like she did, instead of simply killing her, as she would in the old days. Just like she earned Snow's forgiveness, she asked for Belle's forgiveness and gave her the dagger, the ultimate gesture of trust and giving up any pretense of having power over the most powerful man i the world, a man who had a lot of responsibility in turning her into the monster she became, and she didn't even consider getting revenge. And after all that, just as she thought she had finally gotten her happy ending, she had once again to face the consequence of her past actions in the form of Marian's return and, despite loving Robin and knowing that he loves her, she accepts his choice to stick to his code of honor and twice, when she has the chance to let someone else kill the woman standing in the way of her happiness, she saves her, because that's the person she is now, someone who will save her worst enemy even though it will bring her unbearable heartache just because that is the right thing to do and she wouldn't be able to live with herself if she did otherwise. (okay, so she fantasized once about killing Marian, but let's be honest, who doesn't fantasize of less-than-honorable actions when angry? the important thing is she was strong enough to resist that temptation) And now she's trying to find a way to ensure her happiness that doesn't hurt anyone else.

Honestly, if that isn't redemption and character development, I don't know what is. :dunno:

This, a million times this.

Simple,they have noooo idea what to do with her. They need her for big moments and in between they are clueless.

The sad part is, I think they honestly do. Regina's arcs aren't bad on a theoretically speaking - They're both quite endearing and interesting. But there's just no screen time for it. I mean, has the show addressed the change of power between Regina and Snow? Regina's conflicts in the past with Marian? How's Robin's take on what's happening? They just aren't giving proper attention to this storyline. And It's not like I'm not enjoying whatever else is on - But the show needs to have balance, and the more they push Hook as a protagonist, the more I'm inclined to dislike him, when they seem to ignore other main characters. I mean, Snow's barely there. Henry is a non-entity, only serving as a plot-device, and was Belle even on this season? Charming has had a bit of focus, but just because he fit in Frozen's back-story regarding Anna. Besides that, his only point is "I'm jealous of my daughter."

[Theda Baratheon]

They could have had an arc of Regina giving up the role of Mayor to Snow but nope - POOF! it just happened. no transition.

[The Mother of The Others]

I bet when the guy who plays Rumplestiltskin signed up for that role he didn't understand how many of his days would be filled up with making that same crazy-person hand gesture and saying, "________, Dearie!" If he'd known, he might have hesitated. But then, he's a TV actor and it's a TV show, so what was he really going to say, No I'm too serious of a talent for this role? I do love what he brings to it, though. Kind of makes me romanticize the Darkness, you know? Seems like a fun gig.

[Lady Octarina]

I bet when the guy who plays Rumplestiltskin signed up for that role he didn't understand how many of his days would be filled up with making that same crazy-person hand gesture and saying, "________, Dearie!" If he'd known, he might have hesitated. But then, he's a TV actor and it's a TV show, so what was he really going to say, No I'm too serious of a talent for this role? I do love what he brings to it, though. Kind of makes me romanticize the Darkness, you know? Seems like a fun gig.

He's a TV actor? I've only ever seen him in movies. Honestly, it still baffles me that they managed to get someone as talented as Robert Carlyle on this show. Lana Parrilla is also amazing, of course, but her career so far isn't as impressive as his. I hope their contracts last as long as this show does, though that is a bit selfish; they do deserve something more challenging... They do seem to have fun on OUAT, though, judging by the pictures the cast posts on Twitter.

OMG! Thank you so much for this! It was hilarious, especially the comments from the evil hand. Thanks also for the info on Mulan. I guessed the actress left the show but I just figured they might have mentioned the character at some point. Like when last year the merry men showed up in the wood in Storybrooke they could have thrown in a line about her. I doubt she'll resurface on this show but you mentioning that Aurora will show up again with her baby has got me thinking about another question I had about this. Did it seem like Mulan was really in love with Aurora at the end before she left?

It was heavily implied that, the last time they met, Mulan went to their castle to tell Aurora she was in love with her, but changed her mind after learning she was pregnant and happy with her prince. I've shipped them from the start, but I must confess that last minute reveal felt like pandering; they just gave up on writing an organic story for them after Emma and Snow returned to Storybrooke in season 2.

I counsel patience; each character will once again get his/her due. And if the Snow Queen and Elsa don’t prove to be satisfying characters, there is always Maleficent in the second half of the season.

(...)

As to whom the writer might be, I have two thoughts:

1) Remember August who eventually turned into a real boy? He had a typewriter with him when we first met him. What happened to it? It may be that Pinocchio/August will return.

2) I don’t know what rights Disney holds, and though the dominant characters were directly inspired by the Disney cartoons, their popular origin can be found in the tales collected by the Brothers Grimm. NBC found success by creating its own Grimm version, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see ABC/Disney come up with another version of a Grimm.

Oh, I honestly can't wait for the second half! Maleficent showing up means more info on Regina's (and probably Rumple's) past and more character development for them (plus, Kristin Bauer being her fabulous self. I'm really curious to see her Storybrooke costume!).

On the writer, I doubt it's August; he was more of a red-herring back in season one, and he's a boy now, unlikely to be changed back into an adult (though I would love that!), and how would he know the story of all those people anyway, when he was just 6 or 7 when he left the Enchanted Forest? I do like your second theory, though. They can probably use the Brothers Grimm as characters, right? But even if they can't, Perrault or Andersen would serve the same purpose here.

Because, really, the only other option I can think of was that future Regina wrote that book and sent it back in time to the necessary moments somehow, and that present Regina will go through another journey of acceptance once she finds out about it. But, damn, your idea really is better, and so much more simple! :bowdown:

They could have had an arc of Regina giving up the role of Mayor to Snow but nope - POOF! it just happened. no transition.

There was transition, actually, but they chose to delete it to give more time to the unrelated plots more likely to get media attention. :bang:

Here's the scene.

[eyenon15]

I've narrowed my book author guesses down to

-Mother Goose

-Aesop

-and Tommy Westphal

[Alayne's Shadow.]

They could have had an arc of Regina giving up the role of Mayor to Snow but nope - POOF! it just happened. no transition.

There was transition, actually, but they chose to delete it to give more time to the unrelated plots more likely to get media attention. :bang:

Here's the scene.

Good to know there's explanation for continuity to suck. They shot the scenes, and yet delete them in order to give space to other plots.

Well, I'm hoping this week's episode improves on the *Other characters but Emma, Hook, Frozen* front. Regina is apparently taking on the Snow Queen.

[The Mother of The Others]

Carlyse was on the aborted Star Gate spinoff, where he was basically doing the same exact thing on that show, lording over everyone with his mastery of math & tech instead of wizardry.

I know not this Ice Queen, my only guess was Narnia Lady but no. So I'm just calling her Cleavage McCold or Chill Top until she chooses to give us a name and a preachy soliloquy. Played an interesting character on Revolution though.

Best episode they've done that I can remember was when they had Snow kill Regina's mom. Edgy. Something the Mickey Mouse network would "never" do. Meaningful sacrifice of Snow's birdsong goodie-goodie-ness. Seemed right, too, despite the obvious wrong of it. They turned the volume up to 11 on that one. The Peter Pan season was kind of like "Huh?" and "I probably shouldn't tell anyone that I'm still watching."