Who is Quaithe ?

[roxWolfox]

Like this, but don't think is true.

Why would Serella warn Dany for the Sun's son and tell her not to trust him?

I'm still working this out, but a few things sprung to mind when reading over Quaithe and Dany's interaction the second time. The riddles quote wasn't the only thing that struck me as odd.

Quaithe is very keen on Dany taking her dragons and going to Westeros (in riddles, of course). For revenge, perhaps? Or to seal a family alliance promised long ago? Oberyn knew of Doran's plots/schemes (Targaryen and Martell children marrying). Oberyn trained at the Citadel. Alleras/Sarella is currently training with the man that is known as Marwyn the Mage (who studied shadowbinding and other creepy stuff), and Sarella currently has the trust of this Archmaester, so may have access to the dragonglass candles. There is also something I'd read about Quaithe 'playing a game' that I haven't found yet. Much like what Doran said about it not being necessary to find Sarella, as she was out playing her game.

Are these things just red herrings? Who knows. I'm just wondering why all these statements were made, and my hestitant conclusion is that she may be Quaithe, trying to bring Dany 'home'.

[Mrs.Grumpy]

I find this particular line pretty suggestive:
-
See here.

It's just a metaphor, trust me. It means that, her face/mask is in the night sky. Probably, she has a glass candle. So, she can show up everywhere she wants.

[Golden Lady]

Does everyone notice how we are never told the color of her eyes even though they are mentioned at various times and they are the only part of her face that can be seen? Or that she speaks the Common Tongue of the Seven Kingdoms flawlessly?

Maybe her eyes are violet ... ( if you know what I mean )

[Mrs.Grumpy]

Also, I think Quaithe is the sphinx that mentioned by Maester Aemon. She talks in riddles, just like a sphinx.

[roxWolfox]

Well, after having slept on it, I can see Ashara being a viable candidate for Quaithe. My first impression was that Ashara was Septa Lemore, until I remembered that Oberyn had a daughter from a Septa...could Lemore be the mother of Tyene? Though Tyene is blue eyed and blonde and Lemore is a brunette - her eye colour isn't mentioned, iirc.

Barristan ponders on how much Dany reminds him of Ashara (could have been mother and daughter), so would that explain why Ashara/Quaithe has to hide her face from Dany? Hmmm.

I was just so fixated on the 'riddles' and Sphinx thing, that my mind was made up before I looked at the other possiblities. :blink:

[EnergeticCrab]

Quaithe is seen by multiple people the first time she meets Dany, But the second and third time she speaks to Dany in places that would seem Impossible for her to be and then she disappears. So to me she is either speaking to her through a glass candle the 2nd and 3rd time. Or Dany is a little crazy town banana pants. But hey who dosen't have the odd banana in his or her pants.

Every time you say crazy town banana pants in a thread I guffaw

[JMJ]

RE: the Quaithe = Ashara or Quaithe = Seastar theories, they seem half-baked to me. Not quite crackpot, but close. Other than the fact that these are two possibly unaccounted for, moderately important women, I don't see the likely connection, motivation or timeline fit. Both Ashara and Seastar would be older than the descriptions of Quaithe. Sure, you can hand-wave that she learned to keep her appearance young, but that sorta violates Occam's Razor. Second, are there any hints that either of these women had the desire or motivation to go East and learn the ways of shadowbinding?

[The guy from the Vale]

RE: the Quaithe = Ashara or Quaithe = Seastar theories, they seem half-baked to me. Not quite crackpot, but close. Other than the fact that these are two possibly unaccounted for, moderately important women, I don't see the likely connection, motivation or timeline fit. Both Ashara and Seastar would be older than the descriptions of Quaithe. Sure, you can hand-wave that she learned to keep her appearance young, but that sorta violates Occam's Razor. Second, are there any hints that either of these women had the desire or motivation to go East and learn the ways of shadowbinding?

For Ashara, you're right, in my opinion. Shiera, however, was described as a sorceress, had origins in Essos (Lys, not Asshai, but still...) and was said to keep her appearance deliberately younger than she was. Some even say she bathed in blood to achieve that goal. So while Ashara really seems a stretch to me, Shiera is possible - although I am far from convinced it's her.

[rejndjer]

has any1 thought of her as a faceless (wo)man?

also she/it might be glamoring the body of woman represnted as quaithe, who it really is then? no1 knows :D

[JMJ]

For Ashara, you're right, in my opinion. Shiera, however, was described as a sorceress, had origins in Essos (Lys, not Asshai, but still...) and was said to keep her appearance deliberately younger than she was. Some even say she bathed in blood to achieve that goal. So while Ashara really seems a stretch to me, Shiera is possible - although I am far from convinced it's her.

Yup, thanks for the details. As far as Shiera, let's just ignore the possibility of magic keeping her younger, etc. I still don't understand her motivation for doing the Quaithe thing. Sure, she's a Targ by blood, but I don't recall her being a fiercely pro-Targ person.

Like you, I'm not convinced. I would need to see more evidence...

[Stark Wolf]

Bloodraven takes the form of a crow to communicate with Bran. What other forms can he take? Best guess any he likes.

We have yet to learn the number of glass candles and their capablities. If they are capable of projection of form timeline goes out the window.

[Faint]

Both Ashara and Seastar would be older than the descriptions of Quaithe. Sure, you can hand-wave that she learned to keep her appearance young, but that sorta violates Occam's Razor. Second, are there any hints that either of these women had the desire or motivation to go East and learn the ways of shadowbinding?

Where did you get the idea that Quaithe was young? The only POV character to have seen her is Daenerys and she has no idea what age she is, primarily, I would think, because she has never seen her face.

As it stands, we have no idea what she looks like, what age she is, the color of her hair or her eyes.

[NoBoldVillain]

Has it ever been brought up that maybe she's behind the Mad Kings madness, and is out to do the same to Dany as well for whatever reason (reason depends on who she actually is)?

This is just a spur of the moment thought, and I don't have any evidence to support this, but maybe someone has brought it up before.

[JMJ]

Where did you get the idea that Quaithe was young? The only POV character to have seen her is Daenerys and she has no idea what age she is, primarily, I would think, because she has never seen her face.

As it stands, we have no idea what she looks like, what age she is, the color of her hair or her eyes.

Hey, good of you to point that out. Now that I think about it, you're right - there's never really any physical description of Quaithe that would give away any sense of her age. I probably made that assumption based on how she seems to be described as fairly nimble. However, on second thought, that could be because of the shadowbinding.

Also, this led me to recall that one of her appearances to Dany was whilst Dany was on that ship. That means that either she used dragonglass or some other means to communicate with he, or there is some other magic that allows her to show up on a ship in the middle of the water.

[Faint]

The only thing we know for certain in regard to her appearances is that Quaithe was present in Qarth. From that point forward, either she communicated with Daenerys via a glass candle, some form of magic, or perhaps Daenerys is hallucinating her appearances; it might even be the case that it's a combination of the three. In my view, she hinted that she is using a glass candle (i.e., "The glass candles are burning . . ."). Regardless, none of that takes us any closer to uncovering her identity. I think it far more probative that she speaks in the Common Tongue of Westeros.

[rejndjer]

jorah sees her in the series, he also talks to her, i know it's not canon, but D&D are supposed to be close with martin, and if im not wrong they know how the books will end.

[The Witch Queen of Angmar]

In my opinion, Quaithe is Shiera Seastar. She was a well known sorceress and was well-read in the histories of the world. It is also claimed that she was linguistic and from a young age, she was able to speak many languages. Considering that Mel is from Ashaai, she speaks with a foreign accent in Westeros. Quaithe, however, though from these parts, speaks perfectly in the common tongue with a flawless accent. Since Shiera was a bastard of a royal and legitamised, she would be well-educated. Her mother was also said to be a sorceress, which is where her daughter inherited her abilities. Since Shiera's most famous lover was her half, fellow bastard brother, Brynden Rivers better known as Bloodraven and he is still alive (or so I imagine as he does seem to be the 3 eyed crow), the possibilities of her being alive are still very high. Since she was said to bath in blood to retain her youth, this is plausible. She and Bloodraven were prolific "lovers" (though I'm not sure she was half as in love with him as he was her), and he also practised black magic. So if he is alive, why should The Seastar not be? As Bloodraven is advising Bran in the snowy and icy regions, Quaithe or Shiera might be doing the same for Dany is hot and fiery regions. This might be a play on the title asoiaf, tying in with their relationship and different situations. Maybe (although this may be farfetched) the weirwood mask Quaithe wears is a connection to the north, which is really far from Ashaai, where Bloodraven happens to be. Where did she get it? Why does she wear it? Who gave it to her? How? I also find it really strange that her eyes, the only visible part of her face, are never mentioned. This is weird because GRRM loves to describe both eyes and hair, so him not mentioning them could well mean that he is purposely "forgetting" to tell us the most important feature of Quaithe. Some might say that if it were Shiera Seastar, everyone would have picked up on her mismatched eyes and that GRRM would have not left this out. But, taking into consideration that Dany is young and impressionable, she might not pick up on this aspect. Most people probably wouldn't initially, especially a young girl-queen who trusted a maegi. This shows us that Dany has a lot yet to learn about most things, including her histories and reading people. Or maybe GRRM just left the eyes of Quaithe out because he knew that most people wouldn't pick up on this random aspect or would not suspect the absent detail to be one that is hugely amazing. After all, we all know how much he likes to play with our minds and usually the things we expect are quite reversed. Also, we don't know the true standing of Quaithe: is she good? Evil? Mildly ok? Unassumingly random? Same with, in my opinion, The Three Eyed Crow. What are their REAL agendas? Why can't they just damn well say who they are and what they want? Because maybe their plans are not so genuine of less genuine then what is seen through the other characters eyes. Another farfetched idea suggested by my friend is that maybe Seastar and Bloodraven are still together and are plotting something we still have yet to discover. Maybe Quaithe is getting the dragons and Bloodraven, the Warg. Together, a warg inside a dragon could make for an impossible feat to win against. This I suppose makes sense, considering that Bloodraven was brilliant at war and strategy. But, again, the purpose would be totally unknown until th next books come out. As well, Dany is ill in favour of magic and its weilders, taking into account that her husband and child were killed by a maegi. So when she first enters Quarth, it is stated that she had no trust for magic and warlocks after her traumatic experience, understandably. So why is she so willing to trust Quaithe? Does she have some hold on Dany? Some weird attachment? Or does Dany, again, willingly give her heart out in the wrong place? So Quaithe has predicted some stuff right and helped Dany, I suppose. But it's still not convincing as to why dany obviously feels such a strong trust in this woman's words. I mean, really, what the hell is up with this mysteriously enchanting lady? Another trait of the Seastar; compelling. Have you also noticed how both 3Eyed Crow and Quaithe are met only when an immense atrocity or ill-happening befell both Dany and Bran? It was as though it was almost timed quite well. Maybe they are able to predict futures and wish to bend such to their will. Why not? If one considers, only a price of blood can be paid to hatch dragons. In Dany's case, she had three eggs, three lives had to be taken. We all know that these lives were Drogo and Rhaego, but I still can't decide whether the Mirri maz dur's or Viserys' life paid the blood price. With Jojen Reed, he nearly died and after his miraculous recovery, he was a greenseer. Bran, too almost died from his "fall". Only after these incidents are the two visited by the 3eyed Crow. So, in a way, their shave with death was their price, as well as the never ending torment of their dreams. Of course, Dany's price is paid in the Valyrian magics; with fire and with blood. Could Bran and Jojen's be magics of the old North? Who the hell knows with GRRM (which is why its so interesting) I personally feel that Quaithe the Shadowbinder of Ashaai is not Ashara Dayne, because... I just don't. I believe she will play a role in the greater end, but not as Quaithe. Anyway, views?

[Morienthar]

If she has to be some one,It's Shiera............

[Roadside Rose]

I find this particular line pretty suggestive:

Quaithe?; Dany called.Where are you, Quaithe?;

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight.

Martin, George R.R. (2011-07-12). A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (p. 936). Bantam. Kindle Edition.

See here.

Nice catch! This seems to be a nod in the direction of Ashara Dayne.

I have never bought the Quaithe = Shiera Seastar theory because if Quaithe had mismatched eyes, Dany would notice.

Secondly, there is hardly any mention of her in ASOIAF. I don't recall reading about her anywhere in the story. GRRM would not give her such an important role when she has absolutely no backstory in the series so far.

Quaithe seems to be hiding her identity from everyone.

I also rule out Alleras because I think Alleras would be too young to be a representative of the Qartheen.

Ashara seems to have a very valid reason to hide her identity - because people think she's dead.

[Roadside Rose]

Dany looked at Missandei. "What are they shouting?"

"It is Ghiscari, the old pure tongue. It means ‘Mother.' "

Dany felt a lightness in her chest. I will never bear a living child, she remembered. Her hand trembled as she raised it. Perhaps she smiled. She must have, because the man grinned and shouted again, and others took up the cry. "Mhysa!" they called. "Mhysa! MHYSA!" They were all smiling at her, reaching for her, kneeling before her. "Maela," some called her while others cried "Aelalla" or "Qathei" or "Tato," but whatever the tongue it all meant the same thing. Mother. They are calling me Mother.

I was reading this part in the Storm of Swords, and for some reason the word 'Qathei' looked really odd to me in there, because 'Qathei' seems a lot like 'Quaithe'. Or maybe I'm just over analyzing.