Angalin Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 The previous thread got an overdue locking for length.So from this birthday, it looks like Jon will be 18 in a couple of months. The 4 years was based on Aegon being 19 (but looking 15-16 so taking the more extreme gap).As Lykos mentioned, we are currently in 301AL; GOT was set in 297AL so it's ~4 years.It's possible that Rhaeger foisted a doppelganger on Elia much earlier in the piece. Aerys was holding Elia and the kids hostage to prevent Rhaeger from turning on him. So it's possible that Rhaeger (with Varys) located a kid, swapped them, sent Aegon somewhere else (even the Tower of Joy?) before or even during Robert's war. Aerys isn't really stable, and Rhaeger would want his heir safe.Also, having baby Aegon at the Tower of Joy would explain presence of the kingsguard that does without the need for R+L=J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinkie Baelish Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Why do people think Aegon is a fake?Because I didn't read 5 books about the last Targaryen's quest to reclaim the throne only for another Targaryen with a better claim to pop up and become king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woftis Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I don't necessarily think he's fake; I'm still in between minds on that.But without Tyrion's description of him, he comes as across as really young in the books (he's quite childish). In fact, if Tyrion never described his age, I would of assumed he was 13-14. For this reason, I decided to look into the time line and there's no denying there's a bit of a discrepancy here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the Scorpion Knight Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 I don't necessarily think he's fake; I'm still in between minds on that.But without Tyrion's description of him, he comes as across as really young in the books (he's quite childish). In fact, if Tyrion never described his age, I would of assumed he was 13-14. For this reason, I decided to look into the time line and there's no denying there's a bit of a discrepancy here.fun part is he does come out that childish in his age group(robb, jon snow, Loras, brienne,samwell, quentyn ) notz thast bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woftis Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 fun part is he does come out that childish in his age group(robb, jon snow, Loras, brienne,samwell, quentyn ) notz thast badI think the problem is that if he's successful in conquering Westeros, who will rule? Aegon's not mature enough and JonCon is on death's door. Does Aegon have anyone else who could help him that I'm possibly over-looking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Reynolds Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Septa Lemore is Ashara, we know via Selmy that someone violated her at Harrenhal, her family puts out her death-by-tower-leap while she heads east to hide the shame of her illegitimate pregnancy, and X number of years later Tyrion runs into the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Tyrell Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 The reason I think he's fake is mostly for Varys supporting him. Varys put Aerys paranoia into overdrive and played him against his son Rhaegar. If he was a true Targaryen loyalist, he would have sided with Rhaegar over Aerys. And now I'm led to believe that Varys would risk everything on a man's son he helped destroy? I seriously doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Why would a true Targaryen loyalist have sided with Rhaegar? A loyalist would have sided with his king, not with the king's heir.We think that Varys destroyed Aerys, but he did not want Aerys to open the gates for Tywin Lannister - it would seem that he did have Aerys best interests at heart at that time.We don't really know what went on during Aerys reign - we only have Jaime Lannister's take on Varys being responsible for Aerys' paranoia. Jaime says that Varys drove a wedge between Aerys and Rhaegar. But there are also hints that Rhaegar was turning against his father. Varys may have been forced to take sides in the conflict - and he chose his king.I think Rhaegar destroyed himself. And when he did, Aegon became Aerys' heir. For a loyalist, the latter would be more important than the fact that he was Rhaegar's son.Still, I am not sure that Varys is up to anything good. Aegon would be well advised not to trust Varys and Illyrio. No matter who he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingHodorTargaryen Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 GRRM is a perfect writing for pacing when it isn't too slow. We focused on Dany for so long, and then to have us just have Aegon pop up like "Hi, I'm a lost Targaryen. The Aegon killed was a fake that my mommy didn't know about somehow. We didn't save my sister because IDGAF I guess. Did I mention I'm going to either marry or kill my aunt, who has three dragons, an army of the best trained warriors, uncountable freedmen soldiers, and maybe now the Iron Fleet as well as a Dothraki Khalasar? All I have is a company founded by the bitter enemies of my ancestoral family, who are surprisingly supportive of me, which heavily implies I'm a Blackfyre, whether I know it or not. Also, Illyrio seems really attached to me for some reason, and he probably had a Blackfyre wife, so I'm most likely his son. Totally legit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shiera Seastar~ Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I thought Dany was the last Targaryen, but a few more blood of the dragon or blood of Old Valyria were popping out: Bloodraven, Aegon, Jon... any more coming??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tini Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 GRRM is a perfect writing for pacing when it isn't too slow. We focused on Dany for so long, and then to have us just have Aegon pop up like "Hi, I'm a lost Targaryen. The Aegon killed was a fake that my mommy didn't know about somehow. ..."For all Aegon knows his mother was fully aware that her real son had been taken away, and she was covering for his escape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkWolf Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Why do people think he's fake?It all boils down to ''The Mummers Dragon''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shiera Seastar~ Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Why do people think he's fake?It all boils down to ''The Mummers Dragon''.And maybe because he's a late comer and it was hard for some people to root for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDMNDBAMMD Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Why is he fake? It just doesn't add up.Illaryio calls Viserys "Your Grace" and offers to let him stay in Pentos until the Darthaki are ready to sail to Westeros. Meanwhile Young Griff is getting ready to join up with Viserys and his army of Darthaki screamers. Viserys stupidly gets himself killed, if he'd listened to Illaryio he'd be in Pentos still waiting for his Darthaki army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingHodorTargaryen Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 For all Aegon knows his mother was fully aware that her real son had been taken away, and she was covering for his escape.And she didnt find a replacement for her daughter? That seems kinda stupid to me. Plus there's the fact that there's supposed to be the mummer's dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingHodorTargaryen Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Why is he fake? It just doesn't add up.Illaryio calls Viserys "Your Grace" and offers to let him stay in Pentos until the Darthaki are ready to sail to Westeros. Meanwhile Young Griff is getting ready to join up with Viserys and his army of Darthaki screamers. Viserys stupidly gets himself killed, if he'd listened to Illaryio he'd be in Pentos still waiting for his Darthaki army.I really think that Aegon was originally a tactic to bolster Viserys campaign. It would make Tywin look bad, show Rhaegar's heir, who many people would fight for, make an alliance through a marriage and maybe if Khal Drogo died, marry Daenerys. After Viserys died, the plan would've changed to maybe put Aegon on the throne with Daenrys as some sort of council person, or marrying her if Drogo dies. After Drogo died and she had three dragons, Griff would have wanted her to get to Pentos to meet Aegon, then marry her. Now all those plans are gone, and Aegon is just like "Screw this, she can come to me." If Septa Lemore really is Ashara, then Aegon could be her son. So, lots of evidence Aegon is fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Shiera Seastar~ Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 And she didnt find a replacement for her daughter? That seems kinda stupid to me. Plus there's the fact that there's supposed to be the mummer's dragon.You have a point. Why Elia would not want to save Rhaenys, too? And how did she know her children would be murdered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travex Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Rhaenys was old enough to be recognized and nobody cared about girls anyway... It was much easier to replace an infant Aegon. It wasn't exactly Elia's choice or plan anyway. Varys just showed up with a fake infant and she went along with it. Presumably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DExit Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It's THE mystery of the last book and it is awesome.All the reasons of believing him real are stated already- I myself simply don't know and do not care, because the lad thinks himself targ, so he is doing what he believes to be right.He might be a fraude though.Maybe george intended his conquest to be Dany's, but he kept that little ... doing useless things abroad, far far away. So he needed someone to stirr things up.Sure, without him it was still going to be awesome, but those are minor stories, imagine writing a brief history about asoiaf, awesome things as the brienne quest are going to be dealt with in 15 words or so. You need something big, pretender big, invasion big: AEGON BIG!That's my major argument for him being a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joluoto Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Aegon might be real, he might be a fake. The whole Mummer's dragon thing might mean a false Targaryen will rise. It might also mean something else. The whole Aegon being swapped thing would have been very hard to pull of, but not impossible. But I wouldn't put it past Varys to faking it all. Varys want his perfect king, and I don't think it matter much to him whether it's real Targaryen or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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