Why do some people think Aegon is fake, v.3

[Tini]

Aegon is fake (i.e. Blackfyre pretender) because in the Sample chapter "Theon" Stannis mentions Bittersteel and Ser Justin tels all about how Bittersteel swore to put a Blackfyre son on the iron Throne.

Obviously to remind us about it and inform those who doesn't know.

Bittersteel is dead. He is not going to put anybody on any thrones, and he won't help the Golden Company return to Westeros.

[Giskard Reventlov]

Bittersteel is dead. He is not going to put anybody on any thrones, and he won't help the Golden Company return to Westeros.

Of course he is dead. My post was not very clear, sorry.

My point was that GRRM wanted to remind (and inform for those who doesn't know the story) us about the story of Blackfyre pretenders because they will be part of the plot later in the book (female line).

Why would he insert this sentence otherwise ?

[Rashtibram]

Ok this kid is 17ish and we are bashing him because he didn't react well when being attacked and because when manipulated by a master player (tyrion) he threw a fit when he realized he was being manipulated? At 17 I probably would have done the same. Also it seems like most people don't believe he is real is based on the fact that people don't want another dragon thrown in the mix so late...which is pretty silly. I hope he is real, it would add even more depth to the story. Thank you GRRM for constantly evolving this story. I think it would be completely boring and preditable if Dany was the only dragon (minus JS). At least now there is something to debate for the next 8 years until WoW is out.

No offense, but you must have been one immature seventeen year old.

Robb and Jon are around the same age, and both are so much more mature than him.

[the Scorpion Knight]

Yes, there is the Cyvasse match. I do agree that he knows he is special. That doesn't necessarily make him a bad person.

Just a hotheaded one, without much experience outside the classroom. If he acts like a 5 year-old who just lost a popsicle when he lost the game, he acted with the pure joy of a 5 year-old with a new toy when he appointed Ser Duckfield to his King's Guard. He is still learning.

I don't think he is like Viserys. Viserys wouldn't have thrown the Cyvasse pieces across the room. He would have thrown them at Tyrion. Then followed up by beating up the dwarf.

Young Griff's training is not yet complete, Jon Connington admits as much. So far it was all theory, this was the first time that he was in real danger. And he is willing to face that danger again, taking Storm's End. I think he might do better there.

Joffrey didn't have any training at all. He refused to listen to his intsructors, he didn't like to be beaten, so he just stopped practicing.

Actually I think appointing Duck was a good idea and a sane Choice from aegon. Duck follows Aegon Everywhere. this isn't the rainbow guard.

I don't think aegon was pissed because he lost (duck, haldon and JonC certainly didn't kidglove him) but beause tyrion couldn't once again shut his own mouth.)

I think the tossing was a sign from aegon: know your place.

Dany is obsessed with an overly flamboyant lowborn sellsword captain. She's also consistently doing nothing at the edge of the known world. It was cool at first, but now its just procrastinating. She's also demonstrated a similar level of maturity to Aegon, remember when Barristan was telling her about Eddard? 'Nup, he's an honorless pig by affiliation'. As for bravery, Danny was a scared weak little girl until she got herself a shiny new Khal, an army of a hundred thousand screamers, followed by dragons, fanatic ex-slaves, etc.

Aegon was on a small boat, it was the first real threat they'd experienced ('on the run' isn't the same as 'under attack'), I'd argue that wights are hardly as dangerous as stone men (greyscale being highly infectious and all). Also, Jon is noted (by Jeor) to have trained under the master of arms at winterfell, Rodrik I think?, and had finished his training well before he went to the NW. After all, Jon isn't versed in 4 or 5 different languages, wasn't on the run, is hardly well learned in history, etc, so its easy to understand that he was better trained for battle, having so much time on his hands.

All in all, Aegon is currently personally leading the attack on Storms End. Not exactly the actions of a craven. He's also shown to be charismatic, having easily convinced the GC to launch an attack on Westeros, something Viserys tried time and time again to accomplish, and inspires loyalty in everyone around him (so far). He's done more to claim the Iron Throne in the last half book than Dany has in the entire series. She actually hasn't gone in a westward direction since leaving Pentos.

another point to aegon defense: he doesn't care about the grudges( i wouldn't be surprised if he heroworships ned):. proof: he insisted on the saving of tyrion

Yes. Aegon grew up believing he is the rightful heir to a very large kingdom. For a person in that situation at the age of 17 in this world, his combat training should be much farther along than it is.

Yes. Tyrion was teaching him a very valuable lesson about politics and life; one that could save his life many times over. Instead of being wise enough to realize this and understand what he was being taught and asking to learn more, he acted like a bratty 5-year-old and threw a tantrum and learned nothing.

Real or not, Aegon Bieber is not fit king material.

well he reacted better that loras(he's roughly of an age with him ). and not to mention HE THOUGHT ABOUT WHAT TYRION SAID.

[Red Raven]

fAegon took the bait, he didn't learn the lesson.

The tossing of the board was him showing that he's an immature brat.

Unlike fAegon, Loras actually has fighting chops. However, even that couldn't save Loras when his hotheadedness got the better of him and he now lies disfigured and near death.

[Pallantides]

fAegon took the bait, he didn't learn the lesson.

The tossing of the board was him showing that he's an immature brat.

Unlike fAegon, Loras actually has fighting chops. However, even that couldn't save Loras when his hotheadedness got the better of him and he now lies disfigured and near death.

He didn't learn the lessen at that moment. But who's to say he hasn't reflected on what happened? Who's to say that the lessen he was taught won't actually be put into fruition later in the story.

I don't know about anyone else here, but there's been plenty of times in my life where I've been taught a lesson and responded in a way that might be considered "bratty" or "childish" like Aegon did, only to later recall that moment that I was taught, and to act upon what I was taught.

One instance does not an immature brat make.

[Lannister Hamster]

It's not going to matter.

If people think he's a targarean then he's a targarean. And if they don't then he has no claim.

[mrlukeduke]

However, even that couldn't save Loras when his hotheadedness got the better of him and he now lies disfigured and near death.

Ah, but does he though... :cool4: ?

[Vengeance]

It's not going to matter.

If people think he's a targarean then he's a targarean.

This is the crux of it. They don't have DNA testing, no one can definitively prove his lineage one way or another. We've already seen people will follow him, if enough lords of Westeros choose to believe that he is who he says he is and support him, then he has a claim to the throne. If it looks like a Targaryen, acts like a Targaryen and people believe it's a Targaryen, then for all intents and purposes IT IS a Targaryen. There is no independent arbiter of kingship, no higher power who decides who gets to sit the throne: a claim is determined by how much support you can win from the lords and ladies of the realm. If he is a Blackfyre or just an imposter with Valyrian features, then I suspect Martin is drawing on medieval pretenders/imposters who have posed a threat to the ruling dynasty i.e. Perkin Warbeck who claimed to be one of the Princes in the Tower following the War of the Roses. The fact that people believed (or chose to believe) he was who he said he was, gave him a claim to the throne.

It looks like Dorne will back Aegon, and no doubt more will flock to his cause before Dany lands - we may get a reveal about his true identity from Varys or something, but ultimately it won't matter. It seems Martin is setting things up for a conflict between the two, but if that's the case I think he's somehow going to have to contrive it so that Aegon gets control of at least one of the dragons, or her massive advantage is mitigated in some other way: maybe this is how the Ironborn plotline will unfold? I do struggle to see how he can do Dany vs. Aegon and Everyone vs. the Others in two books though, with Dany stuck in the Dothraki Sea and the meagre plot progression of the last two. Given Martin's preference for extremely detailed prose, I suspect 8 books will be needed to wrap things up nicely.