Darth Richard Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 So, I was thinking about finally reading Clavell's SHogun(I know, I know) and then I read thos on wikipeida and it scared the crap out of me:Clavell admired Ayn Rand, founder of the Objectivist school of philosophy, and sent Ayn Rand a copy of Noble House in 1981 inscribed: "This is for Ayn Rand—one of the real, true talents on this earth for which many, many thanks. James C, New York, 2 September 81."My question is is how much of this, uh, "philosophy" is present, because I've already had my fucking fill of objectivism being shoved in my face in other..."novels". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racker Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I didn't get any 'objectivist' vibe from Shogun when I read it. I wasn't looking for it either, though. The novel deals mostly with ancient Japanese feudalism, where I suppose there isn't a lot of room for Objectivism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzer32 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I didn't get any 'objectivist' vibe from Shogun when I read it. I wasn't looking for it either, though. The novel deals mostly with ancient Japanese feudalism, where I suppose there isn't a lot of room for Objectivism.+1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I've never read it either, but I just got a copy on saturday. Planning on starting it tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Do note that Wikipedia itself is an objectivist project.(I’ve never found the “argument from association” useful. Wikipedia is the best thing since fertiliser, Shogon is okay, and Rand sucks hairy Lumberjack balls.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Shogun is awesome. I remember zero objectivism in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTinyKittens Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 There is no objectivism in Shogun. It's a great book, definitely read it. Actually, given the Japanese cultural norms that pervade the book, one could argue that it is anti-objectivist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I thought this book had a decent sized free sample? Probably can just read start it and see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy g. Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I highly recommend Shogun. I can't believe it's been 25 years since I read it. The mini-series did it little credit, although Toshira Mifune was absolutely terrific in his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I thought this book had a decent sized free sample? Probably can just read start it and see?I got the sample on nook and it's 174 pages, so yeah definitely good sized sample. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Buck Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Shogun instantly became one of my favorite books of all time. I wasn't looking for any objectivism when I read it, but I certainly didn't notice any. I definitely wouldn't let one line of a Wikipedia article stop you from reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocc Arris Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 If you're aware of Clavell's interest in Objectivism going into the book, then yes, you can see ways in which that worldview informs some of the opinions of the characters, but it's never too prevalent and is particularly low-key in Shogun due to the overall lack of Western characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ah good, this is all very reassuring. I shall purchase book at the next approved B&N outing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearbert Dondarrion Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Well, King Rat looked a bit obiectivist to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zocc Arris Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 King Rat is the least subtle about it, but the book is hardly conclusive in that regard. Clavell treats The King's nemesis with a fair bit of sympathy and although the tone of the book makes it clear that Clavell meant for the King's conclusions to be irrefutable, he had a good enough handle on the characters for that to come off as amateurish and first-novelish. None of his other books that I've read have been nearly as unsubtle, and Shogun has less Objectivism than any of the others that I've read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 I started Shogun this afternoon. I'm keeping a padded hammer next to the book, in order to make note of any "Randiness." Whack-a-mole style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronEmperor Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Shogun is a pretty damn good book. You will learn a lot about sailing and Fedual Japan, thats for sure.If you do a google search for "Learning from Shogun", you will find a PDF file that is used to compare and contrast the characters in the book to their real life counterparts. Just don't read it before you finish the book, as some fates are the same in fiction and reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Shogun is a pretty damn good book. You will learn a lot about sailing and Fedual Japan, thats for sure.If you do a google search for "Learning from Shogun", you will find a PDF file that is used to compare and contrast the characters in the book to their real life counterparts. Just don't read it before you finish the book, as some fates are the same in fiction and reality.thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Easily one of my favorite books.It helps that i have a beautiful 1st edition hardcover set that i got from my grandfather. The books still have the jacket sleeves, surprisingly. I did not know he owned the books until i was looking through his things after he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted March 20, 2013 Share Posted March 20, 2013 Shogun is a pretty damn good book. You will learn a lot about sailing and Fedual Japan, thats for sure.If you do a google search for "Learning from Shogun", you will find a PDF file that is used to compare and contrast the characters in the book to their real life counterparts. Just don't read it before you finish the book, as some fates are the same in fiction and reality.I'll check that out. This book is pretty sweet, I gotta say. I've been hanging on every word.I highly recommend Shogun. I can't believe it's been 25 years since I read it. The mini-series did it little credit, although Toshira Mifune was absolutely terrific in his role.We watched a couple of scenes from that in a high school history class, and you could clearly see some of the samurai wearing Reeboks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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