Gregor Clegane is a double agent

[Alester Florent]

I think it's time the career of Ser Gregor Clegane was re-evaluated. I've heard it suggested that he's a victim of circumstance, but so many of his actions seem like they must be deliberate. But why are Gregor's actions so over-the-top and brutal? Won't they damage Tywin's reputation? We know Gregor was a promising young squire, knighted by Rhaegar himself, so how did he come to be such a monster? The answer is simple: Gregor Clegane is a double agent working for the Tullys to discredit the Lannisters.

Gregor was recruited by Hoster Tully at an early age, after the marriage alliance between Catelyn and Jaime fell through. Hoster knew he couldn't rely on Tywin in future, so made an effort to get a man on the inside of Tywin's operation. The Cleganes were known as a loyal house and Gregor looked like he would develop into a great fighter, so Gregor was a good choice. Gregor would make himself invaluable to Tywin, and meanwhile do everything in his power to undermine the Lannisters and help the Tullys. In exchange, Hoster promised to protect Gregor's beloved sister, who was being abused by their cruel father. Hoster arranged for the Clegane girl to be spirited away to safety and a new identity, covering it up as a death. He and Gregor also worked together to dispose of Gregor's father.

Gregor's first big mission for the Tullys came in Robert's Rebellion. When he realised that Tywin was to join the rebels, he knew he had to make sure that the Lannisters weren't in a position to take over the kingdom. So when given orders to storm the Red Keep, he deliberately undermined Tywin's moral authority by misinterpreting his orders and raping and killing Elia, despite there being no order. He knew this was likely to enrage Ned Stark, who would be first on the scene, and deprive the Lannisters of a good bargaining position. In fact, Robert forgave Tywin, but Ned never did, helping ensure he would side with the Tullys in future.

At the start of the War of the Five Kings, Gregor is “set loose” on the Riverlands by Tywin, and raids a number of towns and villages. This gives the Riverlords an opportunity to travel to King's Landing and, in full view of the court and the king, expose Tywin Lannister's villainy. Unfortunately, it's not Robert who hears the news but Ned, but it still helps to turn the minds of those present towards the threat presented by the Lannisters.

When Gregor discovers that the force sent by Ned is not commanded by Ned himself, he realises that if he attacks the king's banner, this will make Tywin a rebel and answerable to the king's authority. He attacks Beric as publicly and graphically as possible, making sure that everyone hears about it. Unfortunately, events overtake him, and Robert dies before he can retaliate. The Lannisters are now in a much more powerful position, and Gregor has to rely on his own efforts, rather than just doing things to disgrace Tywin publicly.

At the Battle of the Green Fork, Tywin gives Gregor command of the vanguard and the left flank. Tywin's intention is for the vanguard to be overrun, so he can spring a trap, but Gregor selflessly ruins this plan by winning his area of the field and persuading the northmen to withdraw. This deprives Tywin of a decisive victory and allows Roose Bolton to remain as a thorn in Tywin's side.

When given his own command, Gregor heads straight to Castle Darry, held by a family who led the resistance to Hoster Tully during Robert's Rebellion. Under the guise of a Lannister atrocity, Gregor sacks the castle to punish the family for their past transgressions against his Tully masters. After this, Gregor continues to rampage around the Riverlands, ensuring that the local lords are increasingly dependent on Riverrun and the Tullys for their defence and security.

Tywin then recalls Gregor for his assault on the Stone Mill. Gregor has worked out Robb's plan, but doesn't know if Hoster has told Edmure about his double agency, and doubts whether any messages he sends will be believed. Instead, he decides to do his best to make sure Robb's plan succeeds, and so strives more than any of Tywin's other commanders to force a crossing. When he realises this is impossible, he ensures the Lannister army suffers heavy casualties in retreat to weaken Tywin further.

Gregor's next target is Roose Bolton. He knows Roose has been planning to betray the Starks and Tullys, thanks to his spies in Harrenhal, and wants to eliminate him before he can do any damage. Unfortunately, at the Ruby Ford, Roose is able to escape Gregor before he can bring him to justice. Enraged that Roose has eluded him, Gregor takes it out on Roose's followers at Harrenhal, although he makes sure the captive loyal Northmen are well-fed on roast goat.

In his final act, Gregor is recalled to Kings Landing to stand as champion against Oberyn Martell. Gregor does his best to annoy Oberyn publicly by feigning ignorance of his past crimes, ensuring that Oberyn declares them loudly for all to hear. Then Gregor finally confesses his guilt, knowing that Westeros will judge Tywin for the crime rather than him. Finally, he kills Oberyn so that Tyrion remains locked up, depriving the Lannisters of a useful brain, and driving a wedge through their family unity.

It remains to be seen whether Robert Strong retains his former allegiances and memories, and whether he will take a dive in Cersei's trial by combat. Overall, though, I think it's clear that Gregor is probably the most underappreciated, arguably even the greatest, hero of Westeros in modern times. The full litany of his deeds will probably never come to light, since the Tullys are all but gone and it's in their interests for Gregor's actions on their behalf to remain unknown but it would be nice to think that in a hundred years' time there could be a statue, or town named after him, in the Riverlands, commemorating all he did for them.

[Ramsay Gimp]

:lol:

I think you should look into that whole Moon Landing thing as well. Seems fishy

[StarkDragon]

The answer is simple: Gregor Clegane is a double agent working for the Tullys to discredit the Lannisters.

Lost me right there. Didn't The Mountain rape the Riverlands villages? I don't think Edmure (he was the man running the show at the time, IIRC) would be so cruel.

Unlike in the show, there is no 'good' in Book Tywin. He is a lion; his gold is his mane, and his Mountain are merely another of his claws.

[Alester Florent]

:lol:

I think you should look into that whole Moon Landing thing as well. Seems fishy

I know that NASA and the USSR would have us believe dogs were the first animals in space but I always thought that was literal. I didn't realise that it meant a Clegane. I suppose it makes sense because they're smaller than lions and fish can't live in land or in space. But Gregor is quite big and heavy so I suppose he wouldn't have made a good astronaut - it would make much more sense for them to stage it on Earth. You're right, this is worth looking into!

[shk12344]

HODOR

[StarkDragon]

I know that NASA and the USSR would have us believe dogs were the first animals in space but I always thought that was literal. I didn't realise that it meant a Clegane. I suppose it makes sense because they're smaller than lions and fish can't live in land or in space. But Gregor is quite big and heavy so I suppose he wouldn't have made a good astronaut - it would make much more sense for them to stage it on Earth. You're right, this is worth looking into!

Actually, they sent Gregor due to Space Crabs.

They figured he could remedy the situation, given that when he first landed on this* planet, he made the Dinosaurs extinct.

[Alester Florent]

Lost me right there. Didn't The Mountain rape the Riverlands villages? I don't think Edmure (he was the man running the show at the time, IIRC) would be so cruel.

This is part of the problem. Gregor reported exclusively to Hoster, and didn't know how many of the other Tullys were in on it. This is why at the Stone Mill he didn't send a message to notify Edmure of his intentions to make sure Robb's plan succeeded, and had to try to force the crossing himself. It's not clear from the books whether Edmure ever knew that Gregor was working for his family. Hoster told the Blackfish on his deathbed so that he could take over as Gregor's handler - this is why Brynden didn't allow himself to be captured by Jaime at Riverrun, his information was too valuable.

[StarkDragon]

Hoster told the Blackfish on his deathbed so that he could take over as Gregor's handler...

And now we know why the Mountain works for Hoster instead of Tywin.

[Lion of Judah]

Well you get an A+ for effort.

[MixMaesterMarwyn]

I just have to quote this-

[+]Bake-me"Maddest of them All"

Day 454: Dear Diary, It has been over a year since A Dance with Dragons was released and things have gone from bad to worse. The numerous cliff hangers at the end of book five have left fans ravenous for the next book, but still nothing... With nothing to fill the hole inside them they reread the first 5 books over and over and over. Without new substance to curve their hunger they over analyze minuscule details from previous books which have no plot significance. This subreddit has become a madhouse. The theories don't make since anymore. It started slow, at first it was a theory about Jon's true parents. It was a good theory, it made sense, but then people got crazy. There was no limit to the theories they would concoct, no logic, they over analyzed to the point of insanity. Varys is a merling, Rickon is Azor Ahai, Tyrion is a Targaryen, Daario is Benjen is disguise, Tywin's penis is lightbringer, THE MADNESS.... WHY GEORGE WHY!??!?!?!?! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!?!?! GIVES US WINDS OF WINTER BEFORE WE ALL GO MAD!!!!!

From www.reddit.com, comments about a theory that Benjen Stark is incognito as Daario

[Rhymes with Chic]

Crackpot: I heard somewhere he had a brother. :dunno:

[Alester Florent]

Crackpot: I heard somewhere he had a brother. :dunno:

Don't be crazy.

[Tetrarch42]

The pot isn;t just broken at this point, it's a sieve.

[StarkDragon]

Tywin's penis is lightbringer

:lmao:

Still a terrible handler.

[Alester Florent]

And now we know why the Mountain works for Hoster instead of Tywin.

Hmm, Jon Arryn might have been in on it too. The "hand" in the title is a clue there. Gregor's poor performance at the Tourney of the Hand might have been because he was privately upset about Jon's death. But if Gregor always needs two handlers, and Brynden took over from Hoster, who's taken over from Jon? I think it's probably Qyburn, hence why he went to such lengths to keep Gregor up and about after his injury: he knows he still has a part to play.

Crackpot: I heard somewhere he had a brother. :dunno:

Sorry, I thought you meant Marwyn, but I realise now you meant Gregor. Sandor and Gregor have never seen eye to eye, mostly because Gregor's a bit bigger. It's not clear how Sandor fits in. It might be that he's loyal to the Lannisters and hates Gregor for his treachery, even though he keeps quiet for the sake of his sister, who'd be in danger if Gregor was tortured for information. Or maybe Sandor is another double agent, and his public rivalry with Gregor is a ruse. The way Sandor abandoned the Lannisters at the Battle of Blackwater suggests he's got an alternative agenda. He also looks after Sansa in King's Landing, which might be because she's a Tully, and later takes Arya away from the dangerous BwB renegades for her own safety and tries to reunite her with her family. Now I think about it, Sandor's probably in on it too.

[Pod The Impaler]

This is thus far the most crackpot ideaI have heard.

[TheButcherCrow]

World class mate, top banana.

[Lady of Dragonstone]

I feel like I just read a tabloid.

Very well-fleshed out but not really any actual evidence..... a good read though.

[Ramsay Gimp]

I know that NASA and the USSR would have us believe dogs were the first animals in space but I always thought that was literal. I didn't realise that it meant a Clegane. I suppose it makes sense because they're smaller than lions and fish can't live in land or in space. But Gregor is quite big and heavy so I suppose he wouldn't have made a good astronaut - it would make much more sense for them to stage it on Earth. You're right, this is worth looking into!

:cheers:

[Rhymes with Chic]

I was wondering if Crunch was an agent through the Clegane kennels, and if he was able to infiltrate any Essosi sleeper cells?