Where says a faceless man can't kill a man who he knows?

[Ghost in Winterfell]

On the wiki, it is referenced as Ugly Little Girls, but I couldn't find it in this chapter.

I only found this:

The priests used the language of Braavos, though once for several minutes three spoke heatedly

in High Valyrian. The girl understood the words, mostly, but they spoke in soft voices, and she could not

always hear. “I know this man,” she did hear a priest with the face of a plague victim say. “I know this

man,” the fat fellow echoed, as she was pouring for him. But the handsome man said, “I will give this

man the gift, I know him not.” Later the squinter said the same thing, of someone else.

or maybe this:

“Faces must be earned.”

“Tell me how.”

“Give a certain man a certain gift. Can you do that?”

“What man?”

“No one that you know.”

“I don’t know a lot of people.”

“He is one of them. A stranger. No one you love, no one you hate, no one you have ever known.

Will you kill him?”

“Yes.”

My English is poor, but I think this line doesn't mean faceless men will never be given a task to kill a known person. I think without a solid proof, it may be a preference on task assignment, not a rule written in blood.

I bring this up because in aCoK Jaqen clearly states all men can be killed...I think Jaqen's word is more reliable. Inablility to kill an acquaintance just doesn't give me the feel of faceless men, where "valar morghulis" happens.

Any input?

[The Dornishman's Wife]

I think without a solid proof, it may be a preference on task assignment, not a rule written in blood.

I agree that we don't have real proof for it. It does seem indicated by the passages you noticed, but yes: According to these passages, it could be both, either hard rule or just a preference.

However, there is also the behaviour of the sailors who take Arya to Braavos to consider. As she carries a 'valar morghulis' coin, they all make very sure that she knows their names. Again, this is no proof: They could simply have some fanciful superstition or they could just mean for the Faceless Men to remember their kindness (so that the FM don't bestow theirs). And making sure that each and every FM knows your name seems a fool's errand in any case, but it does hint that there might be some general feeling of "people they know are safe".

Still, there's nothing set in stone about the FM and Jaqen at least gave Arya three cartes blanches. Though Jaqen behaves strangely in several ways, so maybe he is only loosely affiliated or is a Double O agent.

[IRON BANK]

I think those passages are very descreptive, reason being more than 3 times its referenced that you will not kill someone you know. the reason being this is not just contract killing. its more like an assasin/guild/cult or religion which usually have rules. The faceless men also enforce their training regiment and rules while arrya stays with them. so from this I gather the rules are significant. but the more interesting point is GRRM is known for shattering such perceptions. So all of these rules might not get followed all the time.

[Black Crow]

Indeed:

Target: but you can't kill me, we've known each other for years!

FM: true, but ( ) is off sick and business is business...

[redriver]

There is no clear evidence in the books that the FM waver from that rule.But the Weasel Soup affair indicates they can wander off the beaten path if necessity calls.

[Cyl]

That conversation in the second quote specifically indicates that they collect faces by killing someone they don't know. So perhaps they can kill someone they know, but they can't get the face if they know the person. Alternatively, maybe they are sometimes allowed to kill purely for face-harvesting purposes, but they aren't allowed to kill someone for only that purpose if they know the person.

In both cases, that gives people motivation to want to be acquainted with the FMs because the latter case reduces your chance of getting killed (but doesn't eliminate it), and both cases prevent them from keeping your face afterward, which you have to admit is kind of creepy.

[Maxwell Stark]

I'm pretty sure Jaquen has gone rogue because he is just killing people left and right and I highly doubt Pate was a contract

[NedStark2013]

My theory is that Jaqen is The Old Man, The Guy who gives her 3 Deaths but I am willing to wager That Jaqen started off as Syrio Aryas master and i am thinking he is all 3 characters. Maybe ned did him a favor once and his goal is to repay Ned by making Arya strong and to lead her away from Harm.

[TheButcherCrow]

I've always thought this was weird myself. If an FM is supposed to "become no-one" how can "no-one" have anyone they love or hate? Something ain't stirring the kool-aid with regard the FM. They seem to play pretty fast & loose with their "rules", like Jaqen & his "3 names" & how Arya is chastised for killing Dareon but her training is actually sped up.

[Errant Bard]

I'm pretty sure Jaquen has gone rogue because he is just killing people left and right and I highly doubt Pate was a contract

There still was something very ritual in Pate's killing, if Jaquen had really gone rogue, he could have killed Pate any time he wanted, but instead he had to wait three days make Pate say he was a thief... that really feels like adherence to a rule.

As for killing left and right, I don't know if Oldtown is to the left or to the right, but he only kills once, after the three guys for Arya.

I've always thought this was weird myself. If an FM is supposed to "become no-one" how can "no-one" have anyone they love or hate? Something ain't stirring the kool-aid with regard the FM. They seem to play pretty fast & loose with their "rules", like Jaqen & his "3 names" & how Arya is chastised for killing Dareon but her training is actually sped up.

You put too much trust in the fan-made construct about identity, what the FM really train their recruits to do is act and lie: when you can say that you are noone without showing any sign that it's a lie, then you pass, but you still keep your memories and your identity underneath, it's all there is to it.

[TheButcherCrow]

You put too much trust in the fan-made construct about identity, what the FM really train their recruits to do is act and lie: when you can say that you are noone without showing any sign that it's a lie, then you pass, but you still keep your memories and your identity underneath, it's all there is to it.

Lol, that's pretty much exactly what I was saying (note my use of "supposed to become no-one") & have been saying for months on several different threads :cheers: This is why Arya's training was advanced after she killed Dareon, they made her blind six months ahead of schedule 'cause she killed without thought or remorse, pretty much exactly what they are looking for.

[Runaway Penguin]

I kinda think that the House of Black and White is a front, a "public face". Good obedient assassins who give up all personality etc... Congregate there. Those who "resist" and kkeep their own thoughts "wash out" into higher tier of the organization - intelligence/enforcement division of the Iron Bank :P

Or maybe it is just "rules have to be upheld at home, but not among the unwashed barbarians" ;)

[The Others Take Ya]

snip...

You put too much trust in the fan-made construct about identity, what the FM really train their recruits to do is act and lie: when you can say that you are noone without showing any sign that it's a lie, then you pass, but you still keep your memories and your identity underneath, it's all there is to it.

Lol, that's pretty much exactly what I was saying (note my use of "supposed to become no-one") & have been saying for months on several different threads :cheers: This is why Arya's training was advanced after she killed Dareon, they made her blind six months ahead of schedule 'cause she killed without thought or remorse, pretty much exactly what they are looking for.

I agree with this, especially because when Arya asks the waif "Who are you?" the waif answers with her life story in the lying game. And the WHOLE thing isn't a lie. We know the amount of wealth was the exaggeration, and based on a previous conversation with the KM, its likely the part about the poisons may be the lie (though that isn't confirmed).

The Waif in the temple clearly still has some sense of her true identity.

edit: just snipped some of the first quote to keep it to relevant parts

[Maxwell Stark]

They really do seem to follow their religon. They want Arya to only kill who she has to, I think she was chosen to kill the person she was because he had guards and she had to find a way to kill him and only him. Otherwise she would be "a butcher of the battlefield hacking down people left and right"

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

I bring this up because in aCoK Jaqen clearly states all men can be killed...I think Jaqen's word is more reliable. Inablility to kill an acquaintance just doesn't give me the feel of faceless men, where "valar morghulis" happens.

Any input?

Actually Jaqen even says if Arya knows his father's name, she could name him and he would kill her, but his father is long dead, just so.

Jaqen makes this deal and then is cheated by a "wishmaster" type name.

Also I do believe that there's some truth to the whole deal of knowing someone and not killing them.

The men on the Braavosi ship help her reach Braavos and some give her gifts others are just straight up scared of her but the captain makes it a very big point that she say his name and remember it and the help he gives her.

"Knowing someone" isn't the important thing, being in debt to them is. All men must serve remember? If you kill your servants then the system doesn't work.

I've always thought this was weird myself. If an FM is supposed to "become no-one" how can "no-one" have anyone they love or hate? Something ain't stirring the kool-aid with regard the FM. They seem to play pretty fast & loose with their "rules", like Jaqen & his "3 names" & how Arya is chastised for killing Dareon but her training is actually sped up.

Arya tried to be justice and justice in greek mythology is blind. How strange.

It's not love or hate, a FM knows people that have served them or they simply don't want to do it. The KM tells Arya if she cannot do this task someone else will but she's a bound determine and stubborn girl eager to prove she can do whatever they throw at her.

They really do seem to follow their religon. They want Arya to only kill who she has to, I think she was chosen to kill the person she was because he had guards and she had to find a way to kill him and only him. Otherwise she would be "a butcher of the battlefield hacking down people left and right"

FM don't usually kill people, they stalk them and then a few days later the person dies of illness or a gust of wind destroys a bridge or their dog rips out their throat, or they drunkenly fall and break their necks, or they have a sudden heart attack from the joy of getting to buy their true love's maidenhead.