Is Robert Baratheon an Overrated Warrior?

[Zupoleon]

These topics really bother me in that they don't really contribute anything to the discussion, they just seek to be provocative for the sake of being provocative. You're saying Robert is overrated, but you're not giving much of an argument on how he's overrated. All you're doing is pointing out victories his vassals achieved, but since nobody attributes these victories to Robert himself, this is irrelevant to an examination of Robert.

If you're going to say he's overrated, you have to elucidate what recognition he gets from either the characters or the readers that he doesn't deserve. Robert's skill as a warrior is based on his slaying of Rhaegar, and his victories at Summerhall, neither of which appear undeserved.

Yes. This is off-topic but I must say that I have to agree with you that sometimes there are topics that just state something for provoking people to replying.

Examples: "Jaime More Honorable Than Ned" " there were MULTIPLE threads about it and they basically had very weak arguments.

Well said. I'm off to start a 'The Mountain had more honor than Ned' thread ;)

[Goldhand the Just]

I don't believe he was overrated as a warrior. From all accountants he was a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. He was born to be a warrior, not a king and it shows in later life.

[Independent George]

Yes. This is off-topic but I must say that I have to agree with you that sometimes there are topics that just state something for provoking people to replying.

Examples: "Jaime More Honorable Than Ned" " there were MULTIPLE threads about it and they basically had very weak arguments.

If we still had likes, I'd give you one.

[Light a wight tonight]

These topics really bother me in that they don't really contribute anything to the discussion, they just seek to be provocative for the sake of being provocative.

And they never end.

[Hotpie4theironthrone]

I think clearly Robert was good in combat and was a very fierce and gallant leader who could easily rally men behind him

I also think that the whole point is that it gets exaggerated a lot. Obviously we all know the way rumours get exaggerated and spread around Westeros. I think that because Robert was so fierce back in the day and because he is King that people massively overstate his ability.

It is reflected quite bitterly by Stannis, e.g in ACOK when he says "Robert would piss in a cup and men would call it wine"

And even better in ADWD "We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left and the Bastard with his right"

Stannis is obviously very bitter but i think he reflects well on how exaggerated Robert's ability was

[SapphireIsle]

"I tell you this--Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust."

"Robert was the true steel."

--Donal Noye, CoK

It doesn't sound to me as though Robert was overrated, although perhaps that is because I have so much respect for Donal Noye. But his describing Robert as "made for fighting" seems significant.

[Theda Baratheon]

I think clearly Robert was good in combat and was a very fierce and gallant leader who could easily rally men behind him

I also think that the whole point is that it gets exaggerated a lot. Obviously we all know the way rumours get exaggerated and spread around Westeros. I think that because Robert was so fierce back in the day and because he is King that people massively overstate his ability.

It is reflected quite bitterly by Stannis, e.g in ACOK when he says "Robert would piss in a cup and men would call it wine"

And even better in ADWD "We all know what my brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left and the Bastard with his right"

Stannis is obviously very bitter but i think he reflects well on how exaggerated Robert's ability was

This is obviously a dry joke on Stannis' part but I really do not think that, from what we know, the praise young Robert receives is unwarranted, in fact as E-ro mentioned; I think young Robert is perhaps 'underrated' as a character as everyone now is all to familiar with the repulsive drunken mess that that man became when he was once a young, strong, fierce, handsome, mirthful man.

"I tell you this--Robert was never the same after he put on that crown. Some men are like swords, made for fighting. Hang them up and they go to rust."

"Robert was the true steel."

--Donal Noye, CoK

It doesn't sound to me as though Robert was overrated, although perhaps that is because I have so much respect for Donal Noye. But his describing Robert as "made for fighting" seems significant.

I love Donal Noye and I always remembered this quote from him, it always struck something within me, made me feel very sad for young Robert.

[Woftis]

I certainly wouldn't want to fight him :D

In all seriousness though, I don't think he's over-rated at all. The fact that Rhaegar defeated Brandon Stark, Barristan Selmy, Arthur Dayne and Yohn Royce in the Harrenhall tourney I think speaks volumes about how capable Rhaegar is.....and Robert smashed through him!

ETA: I appreciate a tourney isn't exactly the same as being out on the battlefield, but there's no doubt it requires a massive amount of skill.

[Greywolf2375]

Sandor maybe; Gregor unlikely. 6'6 Robert wearing his Stag helm, that would probably have made him appear about 7-feet tall, still cowers under 8-foot Gregor.

Gotta say though, Rhaegar surely must have been batshit insane to face Robert 1v1.

I think Robert is properly rated. Theda's post really summed him up rather well.

Robert's height is not what would make the Cleganes think - it is the fact that similar to Gregor being able to swing the mound of steel he uses, Robert swinging the war hammer with one hand with control is what would give either Clegane pause.

Overrated warrior? No, not based on what we hear from the fight at the Trident and what we hear others saying about him. He was without doubt a better follower than leader (from the standpoint of being a king) but he was a capable leader.

[Ponys123]

He won three battles in one day which certainly is impressive.

Battles, battles, battles.... If you judge commanders by success in pitched battles above all else, you are not qualified enough to judge. Anyway, Robert is probably somewhat overrated in Westeros, as evidenced by Stannis's remarks here and there, but he's by no means bad, or even below-average.

He floundered the initial campaign in the Stormlands, (presumably) having most of his cavalry broken while crossing river-whatever at Ashford, by Randyll Tarly, and then fleeing - leaving the his lords to fend for themselves against the incoming Tyrell army. Not that the Stormlands were ever in much of a position to fight to begin with - what he could have done, was take a sizeable mounted force with him, leave the Stormlands with strong garrisons in the more important castles, and move north quickly, to join up with his allies before the Targaryens were fully mobilized. Then again, they don't have military academies in Westeros so it's understandable he wouldn't have considered the pros and cons of his position much, before raising his troops and engaging the enemy. He was certainly no worse than what we'd expect from any commander without previous experience, nurtured in a hero-worshipping society.

As a warrior, he was fine, I guess - individually he was very strong, and certainly did not lack courage.

[Chaircat Meow]

I think Robert is underrated as a general somewhat. Lots of people says he was only a figurehead but his tactical and operational ability is praised far more than someone like Ned for instance.

[Tommens Cat]

What about Roberts night marches or other stories we hear of him rallying troops.

He is a great commander and warrior

[Chaircat Meow]

You just had to piss in my coffee bruh?

There are thousands of threads in this forum. Not all are going to be some "intricate topics, well thought of with extracts taken from the books for justification and proof". Some are just meant to "provoke conversation". Something comes to mind; you write it down. That's it. If you don't like a topic you don't have to enter the thread, you can just ignore it.

I'm not saying he's overrated. I'm just asking others for their opinion so I can get a bit more insight. Sheeesh.

I agree. If people don't like these sort of threads: don't read them!

[Aelos]

I don't believe he was overrated as a warrior. From all accountants he was a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield. He was born to be a warrior, not a king and it shows in later life.

I heartily agree with this. Robert was never overrated and I say this even though I once had a discussion on this board against someone whom I felt did really give him too much credit by placing him as the best commander out there.. something I still disagree with btw.

generally Robert was great man and warrior.. we can't possibly give him too much credit for that.

[Ser Creighton]

The one which called Jon Snow a baby murderer springs to mind.

Oh I remember that one, they also said he murdered Sam and Aemon or attempted to do so. Look you got a few problems here: 1. It's the internet, 2. People are desperate for attention these days, 3. It's the internet.

Honestly it's best to ignore threads like this. You know there is no real argument being made, you can tell as soon as you read it. Some are worse than others, but you are the ones feeding into it by posting. Believe me ignoring things like this will pay off for you in the long run. You won't get annoyed, the poster learns he won't get a reaction and might actually grow up a little. Just a suggestion.

[Ser Creighton]

I agree. If people don't like these sort of threads: don't read them!

True, and people who don't like those sorts of posts can do what as well? Come on, I know you can think of the answer.

[Chaircat Meow]

True, and people who don't like those sorts of posts can do what as well? Come on, I know you can think of the answer.

No, I can't.

If someone starts a topic you are not interested in you are not obliged or forced to read it.

[Pod The Impaler]

The guy did not fear fighting anyone, ever. And almost accounts (of which there are so many) seem to respect his abilities as a warrior - only the supremely overconfident Jaime seems assured he could kill Robert without much difficulty. This is not to say he was invincible, but he was an outright warrior-king and inspired both fear and respect in this aspect of his life.

If he had not let himself go, and kept himself in fighting shape as Ser Barristan did, he'd likely still have been up there with Jaime, Barristan, The Hound, The Mountain, Oberyn Martell, etc. all throughout his reign. Yes, any one of them might have been able to kill him, but he in turn was able to kill them. Even without it, in decrepit shape, he could probably have beaten every one of his own Kingsguard except Jaime and Barristan.

[PrimeRhaegar]

as a commander yes but as a warrior no not only did he best rhaegar is is said to excell at fighting despite not having a passion for it, he beat his squire myles mooton and you don't get props from ser barristan the bold to be overrated. Heck even dany with her hate of him heard how much prowess he had as a warrior.

[danm_999]

No, I can't.

If someone starts a topic you are not interested in you are not obliged or forced to read it.

Well here's the thing; I do like over/underrated character topics with substance and effort. That's why I enter these threads. My issue is with the execution here, not the premise.