Jaime *cannot* be the valonqar

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

I'm not sure if anyone has made another post about this, if you have, I apologize. I did search and didn't find anything specific, so I'm going to go ahead.

This seems really simple, maybe too simple, but I can't get past it at the moment.

Jaime cannot be the valonqar because he only has one hand. The golden hand cannot choke anyone because 1. its shaped half-closed for holding wine goblets, and 2. it can't produce pressure.

The prophecy clearly states that the valonqar will wraps his hands (plural) around her pale throat. Unless Jaime is regrowing a hand anytime soon, it's not going to happen.

So that's my take. What do you think? Too obvious?

[J. Stargaryen]

If Jaime becomes Hand of the King, and wears the chain of the Hand...

[TheButcherCrow]

Too obvious?

Imo, yes. At the risk of making a meta-argument, there is a beautiful tragedy (imo) about the the crushing inevitability of it being Jaime. In short, I really want it to be Jaime. Also, he actually has two hands it's just that one of them happens to be made of gold. IIRC the hand is shaped in such a way as to allow him to hold a goblet/cup, that's sounds like it would work as a means of strangulation as well.

[Mikkel]

Yeah I think there's a good chance it'll be Jaime, if for no other reason than it would be poetic justice. Also, Jaime has clearly gotten a rude awakening as to who and what his sister really is, so while Cersei clearly feels Tyrion is the only possible Valonquar, I'm not so sure. I don't think he's quite where he'd murder her yet, but if she were to, say, cause Brienne's death...

[Chickren]

Yeah I think there's a good chance it'll be Jaime, if for no other reason than it would be poetic justice. Also, Jaime has clearly gotten a rude awakening as to who and what his sister really is, so while Cersei clearly feels Tyrion is the only possible Valonquar, I'm not so sure. I don't think he's quite where he'd murder her yet, but if she were to, say, cause Brienne's death...

Yeah, the only real question is what Cersei could do that's bad enough to make him want to strangle her.

[DaveSnow House Stark]

Protecting the King? What if she went nuts and went after whoever was King at the time, and he finally fulfills his duty as Kingsguard by killing his only love?

[TheButcherCrow]

Yeah, the only real question is what Cersei could do that's bad enough to make him want to strangle her.

It may be ridiculously simplistic, but I would lean toward her attempting Aerys' "let's torch King's Landing" plot. It's been foreshadowed with the burning of the Tower of The Hand & Jaime would be all, "how can the same shit happen to the same guy twice?!? *choke* "

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missed a comma, d'oh

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

If Jaime becomes Hand of the King, and wears the chain of the Hand...

...and chokes Cersei to death with his gold hand

[The Titan's Legitimate Son]

...and chokes Cersei to death with his gold hand

For hands of gold are always cold.....

[First of My Name]

It may be ridiculously simplistic, but I would lean toward her attempting Aerys' "let's torch King's Landing" plot. It's been foreshadowed with the burning of the Tower of The Hand & Jaime would be all, "how can the same shit happen to the same guy twice?!? *choke* "

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missed a comma, d'oh

That would be sweet... and to the poster who mentioned the golden chain of hands , interesting, i hadnt thought of that.

[Logodnica]

It may be ridiculously simplistic, but I would lean toward her attempting Aerys' "let's torch King's Landing" plot. It's been foreshadowed with the burning of the Tower of The Hand & Jaime would be all, "how can the same shit happen to the same guy twice?!? *choke* "

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missed a comma, d'oh

This! Cersei is quite obsessed with fire and pretty much every book has descriptions of her green eyes shining like fire (wildfire is green, right?).

Jamie's gold hand is shaped to hold a cup. A useful shape if you're trying to choke someone.

I also think he will blame her for the death of their children. I know he's used a pretty obscene statement to describe his kids in the past. I believe that he said that they were nothing more to him than a squirt in Cersei's um... well you know. However he's the guy who runs out to comfort Tommen at the sept. I think he'll developed latent feelings of love for his kids and blame Cersei's political stupidity for their deaths. He might also publicly confess to being their father in a moment of overwhelming emotion, a la Scarlet Letter

[Chickren]

Protecting the King? What if she went nuts and went after whoever was King at the time, and he finally fulfills his duty as Kingsguard by killing his only love?

The only monarchs I could imagine Jaime killing Cersei to protect would be Tommen or Myrcella, and it's hard to imagine either of them still on the throne by the time he gets back to Cersei.

It may be ridiculously simplistic, but I would lean toward her attempting Aerys' "let's torch King's Landing" plot. It's been foreshadowed with the burning of the Tower of The Hand & Jaime would be all, "how can the same shit happen to the same guy twice?!? *choke*

Now this would be cool.

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

Jaime has already demonstrated that he has zero political ambitions. He turned down Cersei more than once when she offered him the hand of the king job after Tywin's death. Plus, I don't see GRRM killing two people off exactly the same way, i.e. with the chain of hands.

As far as the gold hand is concerned, I still can't believe that it is possible for him to wrap it around a throat. Try it: shape your hand as if you are trying to pick up a wine glass, then attempt to wrap it around your own throat. Doesn't work.

Edit: and by that, I always thought it was shaped to go around the stem of the glass, so the bowl part sits on the top of his hand. So maybe I'm wrong, I didn't ever imagine his hand as attempting to pick up the bowl of the glass, because without pressure, it would slide out. I have to find that passage where he's attempting to pick up the glass... hang on..

[Chickren]

As far as the gold hand is concerned, I still can't believe that it is possible for him to wrap it around a throat. Try it: shape your hand as if you are trying to pick up a wine glass, then attempt to wrap it around your own throat. Doesn't work.

Meh. He'd really only need the golden hand for leverage. Seems entirely possible to me.

[J. Stargaryen]

...and chokes Cersei to death with his gold hand

No, wraps the chain of "hands" around Cersei's throat.

Cersei:"Will the king and I have children?"

Maggy:"Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you."

Maggy:"Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds," she said. "And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you."

Jaime certainly doesn't have any political ambition, but it's possible that he would take the office of Hand out of a sense of duty, eventually. A user, maybe Fire Eater, posted an interesting bit of foreshadowing about this not too long ago.

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

It's meant to wrap around the stem..here's the description:

The hand was wrought of gold, very lifelike, with inlaid nails of mother-of-pearl, its fingers and thumb half closed so as to slip around a goblet’s stem. I cannot fight, but I can drink, Jaime reflected as the lad was tightening the straps that bound it to his stump.

[Grand Moff Mithrandir]

Meh. He'd really only need the golden hand for leverage. Seems entirely possible to me.

Yea, or he could just use it to jab at her throat :lol:

[Kittykatknits]

Yeah, the only real question is what Cersei could do that's bad enough to make him want to strangle her.

Protecting the King? What if she went nuts and went after whoever was King at the time, and he finally fulfills his duty as Kingsguard by killing his only love?

I also think he will blame her for the death of their children. I know he's used a pretty obscene statement to describe his kids in the past. I believe that he said that they were nothing more to him than a squirt in Cersei's um... well you know. However he's the guy who runs out to comfort Tommen at the sept. I think he'll developed latent feelings of love for his kids and blame Cersei's political stupidity for their deaths. He might also publicly confess to being their father in a moment of overwhelming emotion, a la Scarlet Letter

I think we have a pretty big hint in Feast on just what will lead to Jaime killing Cersei. During one of Jaime's night time session with Payne, they have a conversation about Cersei. Payne suggests killing Cersei by moving his had across his neck but Jaime replies he can't do that because of Tommen. It's my theory that his killing her will have something to do with the death of their son based on this.

[Moon-Pale Maiden]

Meh. He'd really only need the golden hand for leverage. Seems entirely possible to me.

Sure, he could use his golden thumb to put pressure on her windpipe, but then it's not really "wrapping his hands around [her] pale white throat"... It's sort of a stretch for me considering how literal the prophecy seems to be.

[sarah.jenice]

I tend to think the valonqar will be Jamie, and I don't think the prophecy saying "wraps his hands around her pale throat" will have to be 100 percent literal.

If all of the prophecies were to be taken completely literally, Sansa would have purple, poisonous snakes in her hair.